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tenacious_torps

Indefinite queue times for CVs in the night, please

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Everybody who plays late at night on occasion has seen it more than once, underpopulated battles due to CVs camping queue. It's not fun for anybody involved and can be rectified with one line of code, so ffs get cracking, WG.

 

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I agree it is pretty annoying but in all honesty this is something that the CV players should be fixing themselves. Sitting in the queue for ages and spoiling a game for a handful of others is nothing short of pure bloody-mindedness, in my opinion.

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True, CV players are the ones that can fix it by leaving the queue after a certain time (3 minutes is the suggested one, although I leave at 3:30). The problem is that not that many stick to this unwritten rule: I've just had a 5 vs 5 with Hiryu (immediately thrown into battle because the red Ranger waited for too long) and a proper 12 vs 12 right after that with a very small wait (less than a minute), T9 matches in both cases, with Ranger.

 

Salute.

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The worst I ever had was a 2v2, me in a DD and a CV vs another DD and CV. Fun, fun, fun.

 

The next worst was a 4v4 - 1 CV, 1 BB, 1 CA/CL and 1 DD per side. To make matters worse I was in an Ognevoi and they had a Lo Yang and our CV was worse than useless so I had enemy planes above me the whole time. I was so annoyed.

 

At the end I was down to about 125HP by the time I had killed their Bismarck, Fiji and Lo Yang but the satisfaction as I dodged multiple waves of DBs and TBs to finally kill the enemy CV was almost enough to make up for it.

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Just as always - I [edited]love the challenge and I love those kind of battles to bits! I hope they never get fixed. That would take my occasional joy away. :cap_cool:

  • Cool 1

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20 minutes ago, That_Other_Nid said:

I mostly find them to be fun, anything out of the ordinary fine by me. 

Exactly! Anything that breaks the routine is good for the game. Unless it's a whiny millennial. They hate any kind of challenge.

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3 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

I agree it is pretty annoying but in all honesty this is something that the CV players should be fixing themselves. Sitting in the queue for ages and spoiling a game for a handful of others is nothing short of pure bloody-mindedness, in my opinion.

They COULD be fixing this but the question comes: do they really have any incentive to? CVs are at their strongest when few ships remain on the map. Less AA density, easier to slip your planes anywhere you want, the plane spotting becomes more important with less other ships to do the spotting... It might not be "real" lategame (where AA is damaged by HE already) but then again, the CV has ALL the planes too... We really shouldn't rely on players to leave-reenter queues to avoid strange battles, ESPECIALLY when there are solid arguments why some people might LIKE the strange ones.

 

The problem is that MM thinks "damn, I have no ships to make a match for this guy" while the only real problem is the lack of the second CV. So the MM progressively drops some rules for the guy (trying to find the match) while, obviously, it's not these strict rules that prevent a match to be put together. Then another CV appears and... boom, insta-match with whatever was in the queue at that very moment. CVs just should be exempt from the rule-dropping safety mechanism of MM for as long as there is no matching CV in the queue.

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I hope you realize that this can happen to literally every ship class in late/early hours. Happens rather often too in my experience. I guess everyone needs infinite queue time then?

 

40 minutes ago, eliastion said:

do they really have any incentive to?

 

Ever seen a match that literally only has AA ships in it?

Because I have. And trust me, that is more than enough incentive.

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Ever seen a match that literally only has AA ships in it?

Because I have. And trust me, that is more than enough incentive.

Ouch. Seems like my attempts at playing high tier CVs at less-than-optimal hours were luckier :Smile_teethhappy:

Still, I stand by my conclusion that it shouldn't be up to players to perform strange actions (jumping out of the queue for a moment) to make up for matchmaker's problems with recognizing that the long wait is only due to a single non-droppable rule (mirrored CV) rather than any of those it can (and does) drop.

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9 hours ago, OttoZander said:

Just as always - I [edited]love the challenge and I love those kind of battles to bits! I hope they never get fixed. That would take my occasional joy away. :cap_cool:

Woot?:Smile_amazed: You are a weird guy Otto... :cap_wander::cap_like:

strange.jpg.4699fc2a50d06c65eab30d833088d125.jpg

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I don’t mind a few strange battles with few ships but half the time when you get dragged into oneof these battles one of the CVs is going to be afk...

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5 hours ago, eliastion said:

They COULD be fixing this but the question comes: do they really have any incentive to? CVs are at their strongest when few ships remain on the map. Less AA density, easier to slip your planes anywhere you want, the plane spotting becomes more important with less other ships to do the spotting... It might not be "real" lategame (where AA is damaged by HE already) but then again, the CV has ALL the planes too... We really shouldn't rely on players to leave-reenter queues to avoid strange battles, ESPECIALLY when there are solid arguments why some people might LIKE the strange ones.

 

The problem is that MM thinks "damn, I have no ships to make a match for this guy" while the only real problem is the lack of the second CV. So the MM progressively drops some rules for the guy (trying to find the match) while, obviously, it's not these strict rules that prevent a match to be put together. Then another CV appears and... boom, insta-match with whatever was in the queue at that very moment. CVs just should be exempt from the rule-dropping safety mechanism of MM for as long as there is no matching CV in the queue.

What you describe in the first paragraph is a 12 vs 12 late-game situation when ships have been mowed down. If you extrapolate that into a 6 vs 6 battle then it may look like potentially having 20 minutes of late-game, but ironically a reduced MM, specially with the presence of CVs, incentivizes teamplay to some degree: people are more prone to stick together, focus fire and assess the whole picture. CVs then have a better time defending and punish slow ships that can't/won't keep pace with the rest or have overextended (true missplay), while a normal late-game usually has ships scattered so everybody could become a potential target, the more damaged they are the better.

 

I agree that a possible solution to sparse MM generated by CVs could be tightening the MM rules for the class (say, an extra wait of 1 minute for letting the queue get populated, for example, while still giving priority to making the CV match), but not a full exemption from the safety mechanism.

 

9 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

The worst I ever had was a 2v2, me in a DD and a CV vs another DD and CV. Fun, fun, fun.

Lucky you, I had a duel (1 vs 1) with a deep purple shortly after acquiring Shokaku. I obviously lost that battle, but the obtained experience was invaluable at that moment (then the rules changed, and I got a lot more confident and skilled in aerial combat, after the addition of strafing-out). Considering it with hindsight, it was probably the best MM that could have been done not only for us but for the rest of the players as well: they weren't dragged so they still had a chance for having a more conventional match.

 

Salute.

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10 hours ago, Estaca_de_Bares said:

True, CV players are the ones that can fix it by leaving the queue after a certain time (3 minutes is the suggested one, although I leave at 3:30).

Actually 3 min is a little early, you can sit in the queue until 5min. It's at the 5 min mark where MM will start taking "whatever it can" to make a game happen, including those 3v3 games and stuff alike

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On 09/08/2018 at 12:53 PM, Estaca_de_Bares said:

Lucky you, I had a duel (1 vs 1) with a deep purple shortly after acquiring Shokaku. I obviously lost that battle, but the obtained experience was invaluable at that moment (then the rules changed, and I got a lot more confident and skilled in aerial combat, after the addition of strafing-out). Considering it with hindsight, it was probably the best MM that could have been done not only for us but for the rest of the players as well: they weren't dragged so they still had a chance for having a more conventional match.

 

Salute.

 

Maybe this is the perfect solution then? On those occasions when one CV has waited aaaaaaaaaages in the queue, instead of just forming a match instantly with whoever is there once the second CV arrives just put both CVs into a one on one match and leave the rest of us out of it to play a normal game.

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10 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Actually 3 min is a little early, you can sit in the queue until 5min. It's at the 5 min mark where MM will start taking "whatever it can" to make a game happen, including those 3v3 games and stuff alike

I've had reduced MM battles (normally from 5 to 7 ships per team) at around the 4-minutes mark with different ships, not only CVs, but I obviously can't say if they were because of me or because of someone else. I adopted dropping from the queue at 3:30 with CVs due to that, thus having some safety margin. I still surpass that limit if I've had to leave the queue several times in a row.

 

10 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Maybe this is the perfect solution then? On those occasions when on CV has waited aaaaaaaaaages in the queue, instead of just forming a match instantly with whoever is there once the second CV arrives just put both CVs into a one on one match and leave the rest of us out of it to play a normal game.

Hmmm, a "training room" with the possibility of getting achievements (although only King of the Sky and First Blood), making credits and farming experience... It doesn't sound that bad to me.

 

Salute.

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When this happens I tend to read it as the game telling me it's time to STAHP and go to sleep since its more than likely that it's far past Sesame Street time. :fish_sleep:

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2 hours ago, Estaca_de_Bares said:

What you describe in the first paragraph is a 12 vs 12 late-game situation when ships have been mowed down. If you extrapolate that into a 6 vs 6 battle then it may look like potentially having 20 minutes of late-game, but ironically a reduced MM, specially with the presence of CVs, incentivizes teamplay to some degree: people are more prone to stick together, focus fire and assess the whole picture. CVs then have a better time defending and punish slow ships that can't/won't keep pace with the rest or have overextended (true missplay), while a normal late-game usually has ships scattered so everybody could become a potential target, the more damaged they are the better.

I literally said that it's not a late-game situation of 12vs12...

And Ranked show us that CVs are really to be feard in smaller formats, despite all the incentives for teamplay that we have there.

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23 minutes ago, eliastion said:

I literally said that it's not a late-game situation of 12vs12...

And Ranked show us that CVs are really to be feard in smaller formats, despite all the incentives for teamplay that we have there.

Well, I read "remain" and interpreted it the way I did.

 

Ranked battles are a bit curious: from my own experience people enter them with a similar mentality to that seen in full MM randoms, at least in the middle brackets where CV presence is still a thing, which means that many don't care to adjust their gameplay accordingly. I may have been lucky with the teams, but people in reduced MM randoms do tend to switch more to the mutual AA support.

 

Salute.

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On 9.8.2018 at 8:14 AM, El2aZeR said:

I hope you realize that this can happen to literally every ship class in late/early hours. Happens rather often too in my experience. I guess everyone needs infinite queue time then?

Yes, I am aware of that possibility. Yet I have only seen that happen once in all the time I've been playing WoWS, while it's practically a given once a night on the graveyard shift. You know the numbers at least as well as I do, did you really had to pull one of the affronted rack here? It's a real issue and it has nothing whatsoever to do with CV hate.

21 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

Maybe this is the perfect solution then? On those occasions when on CV has waited aaaaaaaaaages in the queue, instead of just forming a match instantly with whoever is there once the second CV arrives just put both CVs into a one on one match and leave the rest of us out of it to play a normal game.

That is wisdom on the levels of King Salomon.

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2 minutes ago, tenacious_torps said:

It's a real issue

 

Oh, I agree, but to only restrict CVs is hilarious at best.

Personally I've seen in happen very often in the past with CVs or not, which is why I simply quit playing when it's late/early now.

 

Regardless I believe WG actually once issued an official statement on this saying that casual players would prefer to get into a reduced match than no match at all. Ofc that could be solved via simply giving players an option to opt out of such matches but hey, it's WG.

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