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Zymeth

Demolition Expert underpower

DE  

66 members have voted

  1. 1. Should WG buff DE skill ?

    • Yes
      20
    • No
      46

56 comments in this topic

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Hello,

 

I feel DE is underpower vs other skills for 3 points.

 

If we take T10 DD like YY (lowest fire chance) with DE vs BFT we got:

 

- Base fire chance 5% vs with DE 7%.  

- Base game time is 20 min = like 1200 sec 

- Reload is 3 sec with BFT is 2,7 sec

- We got 6 guns

 

BFT

1) 6 x 400 x 1,1 = 2640 shots with 5% chance of fire

 

DE

2) 6 x 400 x 1 = 2400 shots with 7% chance of fire

 

Ofc enemy top hull will reduce this by half +/-

 

We got

1) 2640 * 0,025 = 66 burns
2) 2400 * 0,035 = 84 burns

 

Average burning damage will be (18%+9%)/2 = 13,5%

Average Total HP will be like 60k

 

Average Total Damage 

BFT - 1800 * 1/3 * 2640 + 13,5% * 60 000 * 66 = 1584000 + 534600 = 2118600

DE   - 1800 * 1/3 * 2400 + 13,5% * 60 000 * 84 = 1440000 + 680400 = 2120400

 

########################################################

 

Ofc in game match there will be less shots and that means less fire on the ships

 

BFT give us 10% DPM and 20% AA Damage vs DE with flat 2% fire chance and fire can be clean by pressing R.

I think 5% is just minimum for DE to realy matter...

 

What do u think?

 

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BFT doesn't work on most cruisers (maybe a few low tier ones), so DE is the better choice. For DD's, BFT works better if you don't want to spend the skill points elsewhere.

Quite a few 3 point skills can be considered underwhelming. Vigilance? Isn't going to save you getting torped broadside, or stuck in reverse in an RN CL. BoS is not much use if someone can easily renew the fires on you.

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10 minutes ago, Zymeth said:

What do u think?

 

Yeah, well. Your example is fine and dandy for the YY but - switch the ship in the example to Worcester and then look at a pratical example, how that ship focuses one BB for like 2 minutes and you see that with a +5% DE you´d open Pandoras Box.

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What do I think? Well there are 2 ships. Mine and theirs. Mine have HE shells soaked in sea water for 3 months. So DE is vital to take for me. On the other way around: my ships are coated in Napalm paint. A HE hit = a fire. (all this is going for torpedo hits and floodings as well) So I'd advice everyone not to take DE on their captain. I will to get that 0.000001% extra fire chance. This'll boost my overall chance by 1000%.....

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Worcester

 

13 shots per minute x 12 guns = 156 shots with 12% base fire

 

10 min shooting

 

BFT 171,6 and 10 burns

DE 156 and 11 burns

 

Rly ? I think it sucks 

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2 minutes ago, Ferry_25 said:

What do I think? Well there are 2 ships. Mine and theirs. Mine have HE shells soaked in sea water for 3 months. So DE is vital to take for me. On the other way around: my ships are coated in Napalm paint. A HE hit = a fire. (all this is going for torpedo hits and floodings as well) So I'd advice everyone not to take DE on their captain. I will to get that 0.000001% extra fire chance. This'll boost my overall chance by 1000%.....

Only because RNGSUS hates you... lol

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1 minute ago, Zymeth said:

Worcester

 

13 shots per minute x 12 guns = 156 shots with 12% base fire

 

10 min shooting

 

BFT 171,6 and 10 burns

DE 156 and 11 burns

 

Rly ? I think it sucks 

 

Erm, that is not how % work but hey, dont let anyone get in the way of your fantasies.

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1 minute ago, hgbn_dk said:

Only because RNGSUS hates you... lol

This was being the "sacrifice 10 white goats daily" week, wasn't it?

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Just now, Ferry_25 said:

This was being the "sacrifice 10 white goats daily" week, wasn't it?

 

When is it not?

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Besides that any ship which require IFHE by default must have DE, just to offset the IFHE perk

 

 

 

That's 7 points which are more or less mandatory for light cruisers... If anything should be changed it should be removing the fire nerf from IFHE completely. Its a lot of points just to get the ship function

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Maybe 4%-5% for main gun and 2% secondary guns... I dont want to make skill to be op just more balanced like others.

 

 

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Your calculations are way off though (why use 20 mins as the standard for the comparison?):

  • With BFT, YY has a RoF of 22,22 shots/min. The average fire per minute is thus: 22,22 * 6 * 0,05 = 6,67.
  • With DE, the fire chance is boosted to 7 % with a corresponding fire per minute of 20 * 6 * 0,07 = 8,4.

Since we aren't using IFHE on YY (hopefully?), you will rely on fires for your damage when not hitting superstructures. Since we also want to set permafires after a flooding (or vice versa), it's generally better to have a higher fire chance than a slightly higher RoF, especially since you can pump out a lot of shells to begin with.

 

I think it's fine as it is but I would not say no to a buff to pre-nerf levels (3 %).

 

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The problem here is that WG went with (almost) full standardization of the captain skills, which gives

that for my zao captain, I find the 3 points too costly for a mere 2% firechance (I still have it of course) but for my worcester captain it is a nobrainer skill.

 

 

If I remember correctly, a while ago there was speculation about another possible rework of the captain skills, and I do hope they will consider a more shiptype(/nation?) tailored version of the skilltree.

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7 hours ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Your calculations are way off though (why use 20 mins as the standard for the comparison?):

  • With BFT, YY has a RoF of 22,22 shots/min. The average fire per minute is thus: 22,22 * 6 * 0,05 = 6,67.
  • With DE, the fire chance is boosted to 7 % with a corresponding fire per minute of 20 * 6 * 0,07 = 8,4.

Since we aren't using IFHE on YY (hopefully?), you will rely on fires for your damage when not hitting superstructures. Since we also want to set permafires after a flooding (or vice versa), it's generally better to have a higher fire chance than a slightly higher RoF, especially since you can pump out a lot of shells to begin with.

 

I think it's fine as it is but I would not say no to a buff to pre-nerf levels (3 %).

 

 

Ok look from other site take ship and shot 400 bullets you got:

 

YY (Base 5%)

 

- With BFT u got 440 bullets and 11 burns

- With DE u got 400 bullets and 14 burns

 

Zao (Base 19%)

 

- With BFT u got 440 bullets and 41,8 burns

- With DE u got 400 bullets and 42 burns

 

Remember to half % cuz of ship fire resistance and if u shot less the difference is so small... but true they need to rework some skills (I think it will comes with CV rework).

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8 hours ago, hgbn_dk said:

Besides that any ship which require IFHE by default must have DE, just to offset the IFHE perk

Ships with DD caliber guns, like Akizuki or Atlanta, which often take IFHE (even after pen buff, because of how far it got buffed) don't really need DE and might not spec into it. It is a good skill for them, but not just to offset a penalty.

2 minutes ago, Zymeth said:

 

Ok look from other site take ship and shot 400 bullets you got:

 

YY (Base 5%)

 

- With BFT u got 440 bullets and 11 burns

- With DE u got 400 bullets and 14 burns

 

Zao (Base 19%)

 

- With BFT u got 440 bullets and 41,8 burns

- With DE u got 400 bullets and 42 burns

 

Remember to half % cuz of ship fire resistance and if u shot less the difference is so small... but true they need to rework some skills (I think it will comes with CV rework).

Zao cannot benefit from BFT...

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11 hours ago, Zymeth said:

Hello,

 

I feel DE is underpower vs other skills for 3 points.

 

If we take T10 DD like YY (lowest fire chance) with DE vs BFT we got:

 

- Base fire chance 5% vs with DE 7%.  

- Base game time is 20 min = like 1200 sec 

- Reload is 3 sec with BFT is 2,7 sec

- We got 6 guns

 

BFT

1) 6 x 400 x 1,1 = 2640 shots with 5% chance of fire

 

DE

2) 6 x 400 x 1 = 2400 shots with 7% chance of fire

 

Ofc enemy top hull will reduce this by half +/-

 

We got

1) 2640 * 0,025 = 66 burns
2) 2400 * 0,035 = 84 burns

 

Average burning damage will be (18%+9%)/2 = 13,5%

Average Total HP will be like 60k

 

Average Total Damage 

BFT - 1800 * 1/3 * 2640 + 13,5% * 60 000 * 66 = 1584000 + 534600 = 2118600

DE   - 1800 * 1/3 * 2400 + 13,5% * 60 000 * 84 = 1440000 + 680400 = 2120400

 

########################################################

 

Ofc in game match there will be less shots and that means less fire on the ships

 

BFT give us 10% DPM and 20% AA Damage vs DE with flat 2% fire chance and fire can be clean by pressing R.

I think 5% is just minimum for DE to realy matter...

 

What do u think?

 

My question is: why would anyone ever consider to take DE or BFT on YY or on any T10 DD except khaba...:cap_yes:

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Something you are missing from your calculations is you are presuming each shell will do damage.

Any shatter, or HE hit to a fully saturated area will do no damage.

A shatter or HE hit to a fully saturated area can still cause a fire though, which does do damage.

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37 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

My question is: why would anyone ever consider to take DE or BFT on YY or on any T10 DD except khaba...:cap_yes:

There should be a option for different builds...

 

TAE for example gives flat 10% bonus if your reload is 120 sec then after 20 min of game u got only one more salvo of torpedo...

 

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11 hours ago, Zymeth said:

Worcester

 

13 shots per minute x 12 guns = 156 shots with 12% base fire

 

10 min shooting

 

BFT 171,6 and 10 burns

DE 156 and 11 burns

 

Rly ? I think it sucks 

As with the Zao example you are missing one tiny crucial detail: BFT only effects guns with a caliber of 139 mm or below.

 

So in that case DE is just a straight upgrade and adds to your overall damage output.

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4 minutes ago, Zymeth said:

There should be a option for different builds...

 

TAE for example gives flat 10% bonus if your reload is 120 sec then after 20 min of game u got only one more salvo of torpedo...

 

Some builds are simply superior to others. so those other builds are just waste of captain skill points. 

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11 hours ago, Zymeth said:

Worcester

 

13 shots per minute x 12 guns = 156 shots with 12% base fire

 

10 min shooting

 

BFT 171,6 and 10 burns

DE 156 and 11 burns

 

Rly ? I think it sucks 

 

11 hours ago, Juanx said:

 

Erm, that is not how % work but hey, dont let anyone get in the way of your fantasies.

And the BFT skill does not affect Wooster's guns.

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Ok i see now... my bad...

 

Well the good news is if u have bigger base chance of fire skill gives less benefits and what i see most ppl dont agree about buff.

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26 minutes ago, Zymeth said:

TAE for example gives flat 10% bonus if your reload is 120 sec then after 20 min of game u got only one more salvo of torpedo...

 

I wouldnt even think that way. Consider, that you can launch a new salvo 12 secs earlier, maybe its the time you need to kill a ship rushing you down, so you wont die, or maybe you can torp a ship which is almost getting behind an island, but because your torps reloaded faster, you still get him.

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2 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

My question is: why would anyone ever consider to take DE or BFT on YY or on any T10 DD except khaba...:cap_yes:

I like to use gunbuild also in Grozovoi. Those torps are just meh.

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