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IanH755

Should missions that you can complete in both Random and Co-Op should be made harder in Co-Op?

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Hi all, while I think it's a good idea, as a mainly Co-Op player, that quite a few missions are now able to be completed in Co-Op as well as Random, I have to question whether its "fair" to random players that the missions in Co-Op use the same requirements as those in Random matches.

 

For example, where a mission has "Win X games" it's almost impossible to lose in Co-Op (avg WR is 96%+) yet in Random it's about 50/50, so those players who stay playing Random are at a huge disadvantage to those PvP players who swap to Co-Op and often feel forced to swap because Wins or Ship Kills etc in Co-Op are "easy Mode", even though they don't actually like playing the mode.

 

So would it be a good idea to make the Co-Op mission requirements match the "required skill" needed to complete the mission in Random by increasing the Co-Op requirement? So if Co-Op WR is twice that of Random and the mission is "Ship 5 ships" or "Win 10 Games" then the Co-Op requirement would be "Sink 10 ships" or "Win 20 games" etc, which would remove the "do this in Easy Mode" mentality that players feel is forced upon them etc.

 

I realise there will be many PvP players who will disagree as they want to keep their "easy mode" for completing a mission but lets hear what you think anyway.

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2 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

Hi all, while I think it's a good idea, as a mainly Co-Op player, that quite a few missions are now able to be completed in Co-Op as well as Random, I have to question whether its "fair" to random players that the missions in Co-Op use the same requirements as those in Random matches.

 

For example, where a mission has "Win X games" it's almost impossible to lose in Co-Op (avg WR is 96%+) yet in Random it's about 50/50, so those players who stay playing Random are at a huge disadvantage to those PvP players who swap to Co-Op and often feel forced to swap because Wins or Ship Kills etc in Co-Op are "easy Mode", even though they don't actually like playing the mode.

 

So would it be a good idea to make the Co-Op mission requirements match the "required skill" needed to complete the mission in Random by increasing the Co-Op requirement? So if Co-Op WR is twice that of Random and the mission is "Ship 5 ships" or "Win 10 Games" then the Co-Op requirement would be "Sink 10 ships" or "Win 20 games" etc, which would remove the "do this in Easy Mode" mentality that players feel is forced upon them etc.

 

I realise there will be many PvP players who will disagree as they want to keep their "easy mode" for completing a mission but lets hear what you think anyway.

 

Why not simply remove Co-Op entirely?

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*Edited* off. It's a rare thing enough as is that a mission even allows you to complete it in PvE.

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No, since its your choice to do these missions in PvP! That’s fine, but, if WG decides it’s ok to do it in co-op, who are you to deny others not to complete thesemissions in co-op?

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55 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

For example, where a mission has "Win X games" it's almost impossible to lose in Co-Op (avg WR is 96%+) yet in Random it's about 50/50, so those players who stay playing Random are at a huge disadvantage to those PvP players who swap to Co-Op and often feel forced to swap because Wins or Ship Kills etc in Co-Op are "easy Mode", even though they don't actually like playing the mode.

And farming (base)XP in Coop is way more difficult and exhausting then in PvP.

 

So what? Should we now nerf the XP-income in PvP?

 

I wonder why some people always only want to see one side of the medal?! :Smile_sceptic:

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I don't care if missions are harder as long as I can actually do them in coop which is not always the case. Also: while you can get nice number of kills/dmg in a single coop game, one could argue that due to smaller teams and lower hp pool (sometimes half of the teams are loliboats) farming in coop is a bit different kind of challange.

 

Oh, and "ship 5 ships" - yup, would do that any time. :Smile_teethhappy:

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I think people may have missed the point slightly - the missions can still be done in Co-Op, it just takes a bit longer (so the same time as it would in Random) due to how easy Co-Op is.

 

1 hour ago, Jvd2000 said:

 but, if WG decides it’s ok to do it in co-op, who are you to deny others not to complete these missions in co-op?

 

No-one said "Deny"??? They can still do the missions but the requirements are harder due to how easy Co-Op is compared to Random.

 

2 hours ago, Mandalorianer said:

Why not simply remove Co-Op entirely?

 

The last time WG gave stats for Co-Op (mid '17) they showed that around 30% (IIRC) of the entire player base ONLY played Co-Op, so WG will never get rid of it and if they ever did I'd leave too, I'm not interested in the toxicity of PvP.

 

34 minutes ago, orzel286 said:

Oh, and "ship 5 ships" - yup, would do that any time. :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Bloody Autocorrect (honest) :Smile_teethhappy:

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2 hours ago, IanH755 said:

Hi all, while I think it's a good idea, as a mainly Co-Op player, that quite a few missions are now able to be completed in Co-Op as well as Random, I have to question whether its "fair" to random players that the missions in Co-Op use the same requirements as those in Random matches.

 

For example, where a mission has "Win X games" it's almost impossible to lose in Co-Op (avg WR is 96%+) yet in Random it's about 50/50, so those players who stay playing Random are at a huge disadvantage to those PvP players who swap to Co-Op and often feel forced to swap because Wins or Ship Kills etc in Co-Op are "easy Mode", even though they don't actually like playing the mode.

 

So would it be a good idea to make the Co-Op mission requirements match the "required skill" needed to complete the mission in Random by increasing the Co-Op requirement? So if Co-Op WR is twice that of Random and the mission is "Ship 5 ships" or "Win 10 Games" then the Co-Op requirement would be "Sink 10 ships" or "Win 20 games" etc, which would remove the "do this in Easy Mode" mentality that players feel is forced upon them etc.

 

I realise there will be many PvP players who will disagree as they want to keep their "easy mode" for completing a mission but lets hear what you think anyway.

I don't really care if co-op exists as an easy mode for some missions. Imo it's fair enough.

 

Is there a good reason to change this for anything else other than a perceived unfairness in your opinion?

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I think Coop is only easy-mode for missions like "Win a/x battles" since you are pretty much guaranteed to win. Other than that, compare that to the current daily challenge mission chains. So you need to win, but you need also to get 1k+ base XP. That means playing 3 matches in Coop, while it could be done with 1 random battle. If i feel frustrated and got crap teams all day long, i grind it out in Coop. Takes 20 mins for 3 matches usually, which yield 300-500 base XP each.

I think its fine that some missions can be done in Coop, its easier on the head when the day has been awefull :Smile_teethhappy:

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34 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

The last time WG gave stats for Co-Op (mid '17) they showed that around 30% (IIRC) of the entire player base ONLY played Co-Op, so WG will never get rid of it and if they ever did I'd leave too, I'm not interested in the toxicity of PvP.

 

j80r2c.jpg

 

Since start of holidays in germany I did at least 3 times the games in Co-Op than in Random...

 

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I think you're shooting into your own foot by proposing this OP. For one I'm glad WG has recognized Coop players as real costumers. I'm a Random masochist. But when a "vital" part of a mission comes up and I'm able to do it in Coop I don't mind getting there. Those matches are always such a blast to play. I get away with mistakes even the most profound noobs on Random would severely punish me. My proposal; be glad missions are now also available with the coop fans. After all: coop players or nutjobs like me, playing randoms, CW and even the mental closed ward of Ranked. We all have 1 thing in common: we love this game.

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It's only on certain missions so I don't see the problem. If WG felt it was not fair i'm sure they wouldn't have added the Co-Op option to missions. Also it's the only way you can do the 'sink 5 soviet ships' type ones usually. Go into Co-Op in a ship of the required nation and because of the mirrored MM you get a chance to sink one. When those type of missions are up the ships of that nation become somewhat scarcer in random as players know everyone will be targeting them.

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5 hours ago, lafeel said:

*Edited* off. It's a rare thing enough as is that a mission even allows you to complete it in PvE.

This is short-sighted. The main reason why it's so rare is that so many requirements are so laughably easy in PvE. If WG decided to split requirements, it would become possible to include PvE for most missions and campaign tasks.

 

Take the current campaign. Some tasks are available in coop (like captain XP and credits accumulation) but the huge majority isn't because, say, geting into top X and winning would be ridiculously easy in coop that gives you an almost guaranteed victory AND has less players AND can give you a team with half the people being literal bots... so, obviously, you can't complete this task in coop.

 

But imagine if there could be a separate requirement variant for the same task. Much harder, to make it comparable to how hard it is to complete the task in Randoms. Suddenly instead of just 2 1-star tasks you could have almost all of them available for completion in coop!

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Firstly I suspect the way missions are coded simply wouldn't accommodate what you're suggesting, a mission is a mission, the fact they can enable it to be done in certain game modes is I think just an on/off option within the mission.

Secondly I can see no reason to deny what's a relatively recent luxury, it's nice to have the option to just bimble about in COOP as a relief from some of the truly awful teams in Randoms, today I've had some epically bad ones topped off by 9 T10 ships that couldn't take 1 cap against 3 enemies and then refusal to push when it was obvious for 10 minutes that it was a lost game even though the enemy were 3 ships down.

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5 hours ago, eliastion said:

This is short-sighted. The main reason why it's so rare is that so many requirements are so laughably easy in PvE. If WG decided to split requirements, it would become possible to include PvE for most missions and campaign tasks.

 

Take the current campaign. Some tasks are available in coop (like captain XP and credits accumulation) but the huge majority isn't because, say, geting into top X and winning would be ridiculously easy in coop that gives you an almost guaranteed victory AND has less players AND can give you a team with half the people being literal bots... so, obviously, you can't complete this task in coop.

 

But imagine if there could be a separate requirement variant for the same task. Much harder, to make it comparable to how hard it is to complete the task in Randoms. Suddenly instead of just 2 1-star tasks you could have almost all of them available for completion in coop!

I'll say the same thing I said to the OP: Go *Edit* yourself.

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6 hours ago, eliastion said:

This is short-sighted. The main reason why it's so rare is that so many requirements are so laughably easy in PvE. If WG decided to split requirements, it would become possible to include PvE for most missions and campaign tasks.

 

Take the current campaign. Some tasks are available in coop (like captain XP and credits accumulation) but the huge majority isn't because, say, geting into top X and winning would be ridiculously easy in coop that gives you an almost guaranteed victory AND has less players AND can give you a team with half the people being literal bots... so, obviously, you can't complete this task in coop.

 

But imagine if there could be a separate requirement variant for the same task. Much harder, to make it comparable to how hard it is to complete the task in Randoms. Suddenly instead of just 2 1-star tasks you could have almost all of them available for completion in coop!

Sure but as others have say, the win requirement and country requirement are easier, but many others are not. In the module campaign , I who more or less only play random will probably make the 15 wins in coop as it  is easier, so for us who have no prestige problems I am happy to switch, but for those that does not and only plays coop XP/credits are horribly slow so what you win on some occasions you lose far more on others.

 

I have no problems with some benefits for the coop players. After all the benefits for playing random is way higher.

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No, because as long as it's possible and fairly easy to complete a stupid mission requirement in coop, you'll have less people screwing up PvP matches to complete a stupid mission requirement.

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49 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

No, because as long as it's possible and fairly easy to complete a stupid mission requirement in coop, you'll have less people screwing up PvP matches to complete a stupid mission requirement.

This.....

1, many of the mission that can be done in Coop are harder. even Examples given  XP and Credits missions.. The rewards in Coop are MUCH LOWER.

2, some mission are better done In Coop.. missions from past  (ramming kills for example) if the missions turn out much easer in coop just go play them in coop. I did this for CV Torp hits and plane kills. Ment I could concentrate on doing mission and not on what I needed to do as a CV player for the team.

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12 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

some mission are better done In Coop.. missions from past  (ramming kills for example) if the missions turn out much easer in coop just go play them in coop. I did this for CV Torp hits and plane kills. Ment I could concentrate on doing mission and not on what I needed to do as a CV player for the team.

Sometimes you don't have a suitable ship for the mission requirements and so have to play another type of ship 'poorly' in order to try and complete the mission. If you can do this in Co-Op instead of random you'll need your team to carry you less. 

 

In the pre smoke nerf days I had a mission for loads of secondary hits but didn't have a suitable BB to do it with back then. It had to be done in random so all I could do was grind it through using the Edinburg in smoke at close range. For a good few games that's all I did with her and it wasn't a good way to play her. Recently I've been able to do those type of missions in Co-Op so just took the Richelieu and Bismarck into Co-Op and farmed the hits quite quickly by just brawling.

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10 hours ago, lafeel said:

I'll say the same thing I said to the OP: Go *Edit* yourself.

Thank you for your input, it's most refreshing to see someone with such well thought out arguments, sir :Smile_honoring:

 

9 hours ago, Gnirf said:

Sure but as others have say, the win requirement and country requirement are easier, but many others are not. In the module campaign , I who more or less only play random will probably make the 15 wins in coop as it  is easier, so for us who have no prestige problems I am happy to switch, but for those that does not and only plays coop XP/credits are horribly slow so what you win on some occasions you lose far more on others.

 

I have no problems with some benefits for the coop players. After all the benefits for playing random is way higher.

The problem is that lack of distinction is precisely what kicks the coop players in the stern more often than not. Missions are designed for Random and what follows is that most of them are either not doable in coop (those that require achievements, those that require base XP quota in a single battle etc) or so easy in coop that they tend to not be allowed there at all. Every once a blue moon there is a mission (or part of a mission) that's actually much easier in coop (like the 15 victory part in the legendary module mission) but this kind of task is Random-restricted more often than not.

The possibility of designing missions with separate criteria based on mode would potentially open all these missions/tasks to coop. Coop players would benefit from such a change, not lose out on it.

 

That being said, all that is unlikely to happen because that would require a rework of mission system and that's resources that WG is unlikely to commit.

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22 hours ago, IanH755 said:

Hi all, while I think it's a good idea, as a mainly Co-Op player, that quite a few missions are now able to be completed in Co-Op as well as Random, I have to question whether its "fair" to random players that the missions in Co-Op use the same requirements as those in Random matches.

 

For example, where a mission has "Win X games" it's almost impossible to lose in Co-Op (avg WR is 96%+) yet in Random it's about 50/50, so those players who stay playing Random are at a huge disadvantage to those PvP players who swap to Co-Op and often feel forced to swap because Wins or Ship Kills etc in Co-Op are "easy Mode", even though they don't actually like playing the mode.

 

So would it be a good idea to make the Co-Op mission requirements match the "required skill" needed to complete the mission in Random by increasing the Co-Op requirement? So if Co-Op WR is twice that of Random and the mission is "Ship 5 ships" or "Win 10 Games" then the Co-Op requirement would be "Sink 10 ships" or "Win 20 games" etc, which would remove the "do this in Easy Mode" mentality that players feel is forced upon them etc.

 

I realise there will be many PvP players who will disagree as they want to keep their "easy mode" for completing a mission but lets hear what you think anyway.

You forgot the 'Earn X base XP' missions.

 

They take considerably longer in PvE because of the reduced earnings.

 

And believe it or not some people actually prefer co-op to PvP, I have a few members in my clan who prefer PvE. And there are plenty of mission chains where playing in co-op isn't allowed, so they miss out on them.

 

They enjoy the relative piece and quite of PvE and the reduced salty/ toxic chat found in Randoms when a player or team don't follow the demands or bidding of the idiot on their team spaming chat with insults and demands to go here, or calls of git gud.

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1 hour ago, Fat_Maniac said:

You forgot the 'Earn X base XP' missions.

 

They take considerably longer in PvE because of the reduced earnings.

 

And believe it or not some people actually prefer co-op to PvP, I have a few members in my clan who prefer PvE. And there are plenty of mission chains where playing in co-op isn't allowed, so they miss out on them.

 

They enjoy the relative piece and quite of PvE and the reduced salty/ toxic chat found in Randoms when a player or team don't follow the demands or bidding of the idiot on their team spaming chat with insults and demands to go here, or calls of git gud.

 

Maybe you missed that I'm a Co-Op player too and that Missions can go both ways - Harder for "easy to do in Co-Op" and easier for "easy to do in Random" so things like XP missions can be made easier in Co-Op to match the skill needed to complete the mission in Random i.e. if a mission takes say on average 10 games in Random to "Get 10K base XP" then in Co-Op it'd only be "Get 5K base XP" etc. It doesn't only have to work one way.

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