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piritskenyer

Main Gun Reload Booster - does everyone need a gimmick?

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Hello fellow forum dwellers,

 

Today I'm here to discuss the upcoming MGRB consumable and more importantly its implementation. 

 

Most of you know that I'm generally against gimmicky consumables, however I can accept their existance in cases where they actually elevate gameplay or improve upon ships in ways that are needed. One such example is TRB on destroyers which only have a single torpedo launcher, as the TRB practically gives them another launcher where there physically is none. I find that to be a somewaht elegant solution to a gameplay problem, as the TRB seems to have similar cooldown time to those torpedo tube reload times. I won't comment on radar right now, as that is a completely different can of worms.

However, I think the Main Gun Reload Booster is a consumable that is uncalled for in the majority of cases.

I can see it working out fine on Henri IV, as that ship was indeed in need of some sort of buff and perhaps a periodic sharp increase in firepower may be the way to buff it without overbuffing it, however, playing through the Charles Martel and Saint-Louis, I am firmly opposed to the projected reduction of rate of fire in order to fit the consumable. The thing is: the two aformentioned ships are mostly fine with their current sets of characteristics, especially firepower-wise. Messingwith them would very definitely fall into the "trying to fix something that ain't broke" category. 

I don't see the gameplay reason (the cynics amongst you who are about to say "but there's a monetary reason!", perhaps, but I'll still argue gameplay) for these two ships having their firepower messed with, and I don't see the point of the MGRB consumable that just seems to add one more layer of unnecessary complexity to ships are already somewhat complicated to exploit to their full potential. 

Maybe it has to do with me being a fan of good, oldschool simplicity in game mechanics, but to me the MGRB consumable seems largely superfluous, at least for "regular" ships. I can (perhaps) see it justified for Henri, but even then, a simple rate of fire buff would have been my choice.

 

I understand that the game developers are thriving for nations to be specialised, and that in tanks the "thing" for the french has been mobility and high bursts of damage, so making it so for ships would be somewhat logical, but I'm really not sure (read: I really doubt) that adding one more gimmicky consumable is the way to do. 

 

Discuss please, maybe I'm not seeing something

Cheers

 

PS: One more thing: Having so far only looked at them on paper, I also find the idea dubious for Jean Bart and Le Terrible. I don't like the idea of depending on a consumable in terms of damage output in a DD for example.

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I dont really see where the french cruisers up to this point had any complexity whatsoever - just keep your distance, run and gun and you arent doing something catastrophically wrong at least, trollish spaced armour made them reasonably durable as well without requiring any kind of special positioning/angling to do its thing... And they were relatively bad at pushing in, so not even a particularly high skillcap/carry capacity. I'd say they were the most "boring"/bland cruiser line in the entire game up to this point. Which, by the way, isnt necessarily a bad thing - they are very solid ships at the same time... I'd be interested to hear where you see complexity in them... And the MGRB itself is a pretty decent solution to that - adds a layer of decisionmaking and skill, helps with clutch pushes, and at the same time it doesnt radically alter the power level of these ships.

Why WG felt the need to nerf CM and StLouis to give them this, on the other hand, is a bit beyond me as well... it's not like they were dominating their tiers...

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Frenchies - designated gimmickbotes 

 

I have no personal issue with the implementation, but nerf to CM and SL is uncalled for.

 

On the other hand making ships rely on the consumable for balance in their core gameplay either opens for unique playstyles or an unsatisfying and unreliable experience. I lean more toward the former after seeing some gameplay, but I dont really know yet. How well Terrible can utilize MGRB remains to be seen and if Jean Bart can pull through at 9 (regardless of MGRB or not) is still up in the air.

 

Personally I really like the idea the more I think about it. Frenchies need something other than just press Y then spam HE. This will give them something, but still avoid having them just brute force through the competition.

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The Royal Gimmick Navy still have the Frenchies beat :cap_like:

I'm more surprised they're updating an old line with a new gimmick... Shouldn't this be for the Pantarctica line?

 

19 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

One such example is TRB on destroyers which only have a single torpedo launcher, as the TRB practically gives them another launcher where there physically is none. I find that to be a somewaht elegant solution to a gameplay problem

 

Akizuki and sisters should replace TRB with a proper 'support' gimmick. (Better smoke, dAA etc) TRB makes no sense and doesn't add anything to the game play for those ships ...well unless you think Hatsu is a 'gunboat'.

 

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1 minute ago, Tyrendian89 said:

I dont really see where the french cruisers up to this point had any complexity whatsoever - just keep your distance, run and gun and you arent doing something catastrophically wrong at least, trollish spaced armour made them reasonably durable as well without requiring any kind of special positioning/angling to do its thing... And they were relatively bad at pushing in, so not even a particularly high skillcap/carry capacity. I'd say they were the most "boring"/bland cruiser line in the entire game up to this point. Which, by the way, isnt necessarily a bad thing - they are very solid ships at the same time... I'd be interested to hear where you see complexity in them... And the MGRB itself is a pretty decent solution to that - adds a layer of decisionmaking and skill, helps with clutch pushes, and at the same time it doesnt radically alter the power level of these ships.

Why WG felt the need to nerf CM and StLouis to give them this, on the other hand, is a bit beyond me as well... it's not like they were dominating their tiers...

 

I found that the french cruisers were most complex when it came to timing. What I mean is that no, you won't usually be able to push into people because you lack stealth or armour, but if you pick your moment right, you can "one-man-mob" low HP enemies while they are distracted, switching violently from a farther away fire support role, or if you pick your moment right you can find a gap and exploit it to get behind an enemy position quickly with your speedboost. Maybe I'm trying to see more in them than there actually is, but I think french cruisers, while easy to do well in, are pretty difficult to do very well in.

 

MGRB just seems like a cheapshot. Sure, if I'm given it with no penalty to reload, sure, meh, but I'd trade a burst ability for sustained rate any day of the week.

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I don't mind the module on them, seems like a decent idea and I've heard that the HIV kinda needs some love.

But the Charles and Louis nerf seems really uncalled for, there's no way it's worth trading their base reload for an off-chance that the reload boost for a few seconds might be really useful

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Well, WG likes to balance things with a sledgehammer, so no surprise here.

I find that reducing the RoF of T8 & T9 French CA by a fifth is a heavy blow to ships that were the light at the end of the tunnel, since the preceding ships are meh. Especially after the brutal Emile Bertin nerf.

And the added consumable will not compensate for the changes, as it offers too little in return (1 extra salvo per charge).

WG will push through with both the gimmick and the nerf, our opinions don't matter, as WG is not listening.

 

PS: Let me say it here, Le Terrible with its 7s reload will be dead on arrival.

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I envy you guys.

Tho I liked CM I couldnt make STL work even with a nuke consumable.

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I love the idea of this new consumable. Being able to punish broadside cruisers or even BBs with high rate of fire of French AP looks good. Same, increasing the rate of fire of HE shells to punish an early use of the damage control is nice.

But like most of you, I hate the idea of the nerf of T8 and 9 cruisers. Or at least, not a big nerf like this. 20% reduction is huge. I really hope WG will not destroy those 2 ships like this.

French cruisers are not played a lot compared to other lines. They need love. Not the nerf hammer of wargaming.

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Basicaly they make it more expensive to play these ships by slamming another consumable on them. GG WG

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9 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

Basicaly they make it more expensive to play these ships by slamming another consumable on them. GG WG

Which will have the effect of lowering the amount of games played, as contrary to USN and RN CLs their "gimmick" isn't exciting.

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Completely stupid idea.  Maybe on the T10 whatever but in light of the T8 + 9 - how stupid do you have to be to even come up with this?

 

Nerf my rof so I can pay another 25 k and still have overall worse firepower? Are really TO MANY people playing these cruisers/cruisers in general? I dont care if this sees fruition, his whole train of thought is ridiculous and to an insulting degree to begin with.

 

Thank god the french cruisers have something else like ........ wait, actually they dont. Shitty AA (ok thats a given on all cruisers to have CVs lol-shít on them), bad shell arcs, bad HE alpha (good firechance tough, but that is tied to rof which is the issue at hand and therefore soon "fixed"), no radar ........ yeah theres not a lot left.

 

I dont care to much about ships below T5. The 5 already was garbage without any firepower whatsoever and I ofc sold without regrets - and is now even nerfed. The T6 is even worse (I use it in ops tough and there its decent). The T7 was at least tolerable - mainly due to the range, T7 mm and fact what an incredible pos the original Hipper was in comparison a tier higher (have it in port because historical ship). The T8 CM was the first ship that was enjoyable ....... well as enjoyable being constantly bottom tier and getting shít on by overbuffed BBs can be ofc.

 

 

You know what WG did when the offered a "choice" via the special upgrade for Yamato? You know the one that "reduces" turret rotation? Yep, they buffed the base rotation and gave Yamamoto enhanced EM too. Non mentally challenged people call this a straight upgrade/buff but in this case, since cruisers are involved, we start the "design process" with a heavy nerf to its already deplorable damage potential.

 

 

I mean it really does make sense (from a perspective of somebody not even allowed to handle a stapler unsupervised ofc): When there were too many battleships WG fixed this by buffing them even further (and they aint done yet). When cruisers are not popular enough they get nerfed even further. In no way is this different to anything they have done in the last few years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Aragathor said:

 

PS: Let me say it here, Le Terrible with its 7s reload will be dead on arrival.

lets see how she plas out.. they said the Aigle would be bad.. but she is a fun fun boat to play. as for this reload boost im not sure.. the HUGE NErf to tier 8 and 9 seems to big for the short timespan buff to ROF with module 

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4 hours ago, elblancogringo said:

But like most of you, I hate the idea of the nerf of T8 and 9 cruisers. Or at least, not a big nerf like this. 20% reduction is huge. I really hope WG will not destroy those 2 ships like this.

French cruisers are not played a lot compared to other lines.

Tier 8 cruisers are already in a shitty spot, no need for any of them to be nerfed, Frenchie or not.

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Honestly, i think this consumable is a good idea for the French cruisers, they badly needed some love & while I enjoy playing the HIV, it needs prolonged games to be effective, I like the fact that picking & choosing the right time to pop this consumable will separate the good from the bad also, & I like that fact that bad play by enemies will be punished by this module, of course, it's still WIP, so i'll reserve judgement until it's fully implemented

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19 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

lets see how she plas out.. they said the Aigle would be bad.. but she is a fun fun boat to play. as for this reload boost im not sure.. the HUGE NErf to tier 8 and 9 seems to big for the short timespan buff to ROF with module 

A gunboat with a 7s reload, able to shoot fast only for a short time. I can't see the point.

Aigle didn't fit into the expectations of people, but the ship wasn't balanced around a gimmicky consumable.

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I'll leave this here. I only did the graph to 14 minutes, because at that point all the possible reload boosts (5 max) have been used up. So.. yeah... No.

 

1Pytfpu.jpg

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The gimmick seems totally silly to me and nerfing the Charles and Saint Louis to accommodate it is plain idiocy.

 

They could simply have buffed the rate of fire a little on T8/9/10 and improved them that way, a consumable is NOT the way to go (unless it fires a screen of white flags of course).

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Well, if you ask Flamu, he has the idea that the MGRB is a gimmick added to the French to make them more attractive to players since they seem to be unpopular. You know, Worcester just being release and already catching up on Henry in games played and all that.

 

Who would have thought that comming from WG they'd just nerf the reload to compensate make them worse just to slap a stupid gimmick on them? :cap_fainting:

 

WG is genius! :cap_book:

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3 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

Well, if you ask Flamu, he has the idea that the MGRB is a gimmick added to the French to make them more attractive to players since they seem to be unpopular. You know, Worcester just being release and already catching up on Henry in games played and all that.

 

Who would have thought that comming from WG they'd just nerf the reload to compensate make them worse just to slap a stupid gimmick on them? :cap_fainting:

 

WG is genius! :cap_book:

 

There's a few reasons the FR cruisers aren't that popular.

 

They're big and quite squishy

They have poor concealment

They don't handle well enough to avoid lolcits from BB's over the other side of the map

Gun handling is indifferent in rate of fire and turret rotation

They have the same torpedoes as their T6 silver predecessor which are nothing special

 

They're poor in close quarters so lose out to the KM cruisers

They're fairly poor kiters compared to the Zao

They have no radar so compete poorly with US and RU cruisers

 

They lack any meaningful hook, niche or appeal to most. 

 

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5 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

There's a few reasons the FR cruisers aren't that popular.

 

They're big and quite squishy

They have poor concealment

They don't handle well enough to avoid lolcits from BB's over the other side of the map

Gun handling is indifferent in rate of fire and turret rotation

They have the same torpedoes as their T6 silver predecessor which are nothing special

 

They're poor in close quarters so lose out to the KM cruisers

They're fairly poor kiters compared to the Zao

They have no radar so compete poorly with US and RU cruisers

 

They lack any meaningful hook, niche or appeal to most. 

 

 

Actually, if you gear French cruisers for handling and reload rather than stealth and range, they are very very good support cruisers, which are relatively hard to hit and have good damage output. That's one of the reasons why I personally doN't see the reason for this nerf and addition.

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1 minute ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

There's a few reasons the FR cruisers aren't that popular.

 

They're big and quite squishy

They have poor concealment

They don't handle well enough to avoid lolcits from BB's over the other side of the map

Gun handling is indifferent in rate of fire and turret rotation

They have the same torpedoes as their T6 silver predecessor which are nothing special

 

They're poor in close quarters so lose out to the KM cruisers

They're fairly poor kiters compared to the Zao

They have no radar so compete poorly with US and RU cruisers

 

They lack any meaningful hook, niche or appeal to most. 

 

Yeah, that's why they needed their reload nerfed and then "fixed" by a stupid gimmick that would totally make up for the loss, right? That sure will attract more players, right?! :cap_book:

 

They could have... I don't know, just buffed the reload a bit. Probably for the seconds the consumable lasts they could have just put the consumable if they want leaving the reload as it is. Or something even more crazier! If the consumable would be too much with the current reload adjust the new consumable, not nerf the ship! Insane, huh?!

 

Ah, but oh well. I don't even know why I'm still surprised...

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2 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

I personally doN't see the reason for this nerf and addition.

 

They're cruisers.

If they were BBs we'd see them get gimmicks free of charge.

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8 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

 

Actually, if you gear French cruisers for handling and reload rather than stealth and range, they are very very good support cruisers, which are relatively hard to hit and have good damage output. That's one of the reasons why I personally doN't see the reason for this nerf and addition.

 

I don't see any point in the consumable or nerf either.If they wanted to change them to make them more popular, make them better at the one role they really have which is support damage dealers. To do the support role they have the range built in so reload all the way, but it's still weak.

 

8 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

Yeah, that's why they needed their reload nerfed and then "fixed" by a stupid gimmick that would totally make up for the loss, right? That sure will attract more players, right?! :cap_book:

 

They could have... I don't know, just buffed the reload a bit. Probably for the seconds the consumable lasts they could have just put the consumable if they want leaving the reload as it is. Or something even more crazier! If the consumable would be too much with the current reload adjust the new consumable, not nerf the ship! Insane, huh?!

 

Ah, but oh well. I don't even know why I'm still surprised...

 

Indeed, the gimmick seems a complete waste of time, a few improvements to the ships and they would be more popular, the gimmick won't make them jump in popularity.

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Autoloaders are an effective weapon in WoT because the effective engagement period in WoT happens in bursts. You can crest the hill, burst down the enemy, then run back to hide behind a rock. World of Warships simply does not function like that, the game is more a battle of attrition than anything else. The Henri is an awful ship right now and she will remain an awful ship after the consumable.

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