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CaptMorgan99

Win Rates

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Regarding Win Rates

According to WOW Win Rates:

1. Win rate is based on all wins, losses, and ties, not just the latest 100 battles.
2. The record of battles of a ship is taken into a count of overall win rate regardless of whether it is on the account or not.
3. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses.

 

The person who has played 10,000 games (bad or good) has to play ten times the amount of games as the 1000 game player to raise or lower their WR 1%. How does that make sense? 
The fact that there are 12 ships in a game would seem to require some considerations

 

Consider the following suggestions:

1. Have the Win Rate only look at the last 100 games for each ship.

2. Regarding ships that are sold, they should not be included in the overall win rate unless the customer wants it to be. ( if it may have a good win rate)

3. So much of winning or losing a battle is determined by the combined effort and performance of 12 players, so it does not matter how good or bad you performed. Consider making a loss not be included in the win rate if your ship was in the top 3-5.

 

Interesting Replys

Do not proceed if you did not pass Junior High 101 Algebra

Attached please find the Math to understand Win Rates

It breaks down to the following:

As a relatively new player, if you played 1000 games and had a 50% win rate, you would have to WIN 20.4 consecutive battles without a loss to have a 51% Win Rate 

As a more experienced player, if you had played 10,000 games, you would have to WIN 204 consecutive battles to have a 51% Win Rate

and,

As a relatively new player, if you played 1000 games and had a 30% win rate, you would have to WIN 15 consecutive battles without a loss to have a 31% Win Rate 

As a more experienced player, if you had played 10,000 games, you would have to WIN 145 consecutive battles to have a 31% Win Rate

If World of Warships would simply calculate your win-loss based on your last 100 battles for each it would create a level playing field for all players regardless of ability or how long they have been playing.

 


 

Win Rate Formula.pdf.zip

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3 minutes ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

How does that make sense?

 

Did you ask those kinda questions your math-teacher in school?

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Nothing wrong with the way it is. It is an overall measure, important thing is progression, if your win rate is improving that chances are you are improving too. Obviously you can't win every game as there are 11 other ships and divisions can have a large effect. 

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1 minute ago, Rhys566 said:

divisions can have a large effect. 

Prohibit divisions!

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Alpha Tester
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Since all stats are relative, there is no point in changing the current system:

If your proposed changes are implemented, a new standard for good/bad/average performance would surface, making the effect of the changes rather pointless.

 

As for the desire to exclude some statistical data, there is already the option to make your stats private. Further manipulation is just silly.

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7 minutes ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

So much of winning or losing a battle is determined by the combined effort and performance of 12 players, so it does not matter how good or bad you performed.

 

Then why do you care?

 

7 minutes ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

Consider making a loss not be included in the win rate if your ship was in the top 3-5.

 

And by that you would win more games, score more XP and credits or play better how exactly? How does it change the reality that you only win 39,05% of your games?

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1. And what do you gain when only the last 100 battles are considered into the shown WR? More ups and downs, while having all battles influence the WR, the more you play, the less impact each win AND loss will have on your total WR. Still you can track if you win more or not.

2. Once again, what do I gain from that?

3. How about no? Usually bad players use the arguement "Oh you are 1 in 12, doesnt matter what you do" because they are looking for excuses to not look at their own playstyle. Its always someone elses fault. And this is wrong. Yes, everyone can lose several battles in a row, even the best from the best. But then again, they will turn the table much more often, so overall, they make their own WR. Everybody does. When you have miserable WR, look in the mirror what YOU  should do better.

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14 minutes ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

The person who has played 10,000 games (bad or good) has to play ten times the amount of games as the 1000 game player to raise or lower their WR 1%. How does that make sense?

Erm, because math?

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Did you think that all those premiums would increase your WR too?

 

You have a severe case of needing to learn to play, and its ok, you only have 200 battles.

 

I see everything seems to stem off your lack of grasp of the mathematical language, I would advise having a tour of google about what and how math works.

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24 minutes ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

Regarding Win Rates

According to WOW Win Rates:

1. Win rate is based on all wins, losses, and ties, not just the latest 100 battles.
2. The record of battles of a ship is taken into a count of overall win rate regardless of whether it is on the account or not.
3. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses.

 

The person who has played 10,000 games (bad or good) has to play ten times the amount of games as the 1000 game player to raise or lower their WR 1%. How does that make sense? 
The fact that there are 12 ships in a game would seem to require some considerations

 

Consider the following suggestions:

1. Have the Win Rate only look at the last 100 games for each ship.

2. Regarding ships that are sold, they should not be included in the overall win rate unless the customer wants it to be. ( if it may have a good win rate)

3. So much of winning or losing a battle is determined by the combined effort and performance of 12 players, so it does not matter how good or bad you performed. Consider making a loss not be included in the win rate if your ship was in the top 3-5.

 


 

That is how winrate is defined.

There are stats pages that show you the WR for different time brackets.

 

1: 100 games say nothing about a player. A good player can be on a bad streak with just WR 50 and a bad player can be on a good streak with WR 60.

2: The only reason for that is stat padding. The resulting WR says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about a player and is therefore USELESS.

3: That is why you look at large numbers of games, not 100. The performance of the other 11 players averages out and the players performance becomes the deciding factor.

 

Overall it looks like somebody wants to improve his bragging rights and ignores the fact that this applies to all players and makes the WR basicly a useless stat.

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18 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Did you ask those kinda questions your math-teacher in school?

Exactly what jumped into my mind.

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Statistically, YOU are the only common factor in all of your games... so 99% of what you wrote is gibberish statistically speaking.

 

Although, it might not be such a bad idea if win rate and such were based on say, the last 3-4k battles?

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1 hour ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

The person who has played 10,000 games (bad or good) has to play ten times the amount of games as the 1000 game player to raise or lower their WR 1%. How does that make sense?

Because your win rate is precisely what it says: the percentage of your games you have won over the course of your time playing WOWS. Websites like warships.today and wows-numbers.com include tools that will show you your win rate over the last x days once you've been using them for a while (you have to look yourself up first, before any of your data gets into their databases), and graphs on which you can track your progress. Would it be nice if similar features were integrated into players' profiles on the official website? Maybe. But I can't see any good argument for replacing your lifetime WR with only the last 100 battles.

1 hour ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

2. Regarding ships that are sold, they should not be included in the overall win rate unless the customer wants it to be. ( if it may have a good win rate)

Why should people be able to manipulate their stats in this way?

1 hour ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

Consider making a loss not be included in the win rate if your ship was in the top 3-5.

Base XP is a pretty poor measure of how well you played for the win (see also: unpopularity of 'save-a-star' system in ranked battles), so I don't see how this could possibly work out well.

 

It might be nice to see a player's average position in the team, but again: base XP as it is currently implemented is a poor measure of how well you actually played, so I doubt people would really care that much.

 

No, by far the best and most satisfying way to improve your WR is to learn how to play the game better. It's not the easiest way perhaps, but that's surely what makes it worth doing. There are lots of people on these forums who are far more competent than me and who are willing to help out newbies who ask for it and show a good attitude and willingness to learn (so not: '[insert game mechanic] OP, plz nerf'). Hell, they've helped me a lot over the last several months. If you ask (probably best in a different thread...), you shall receive. iChaseGaming's Captain's Academy YouTube videos are worth checking out in the meantime. Read the game mechanics sections of the wiki as many times as it takes. Watch good players on Twitch and try to learn from them (in no particular order, Flamu, Izolate, ClydeThaMonkey, PricieGaming, Flambass, Notser and Runner357 all spring immediately to mind. For carriers: Femennenly and Farazelleth).

 

EDIT: And I forgot one of the most important pieces of advice for learning: don't race up the tiers. Stick at a tier until you are comfortable with it. Do not use free XP to skip ships; use it to skip module grinds and captain retraining instead. Do not buy premiums at a much higher tier level than you have for your silver ships (and if you do, only play them in co-op until you reach that tier naturally). You'll save yourself a lot of pain and aggro that way.

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I would say that the stats are fine the way they are and showing the player a historic view of performance, using this data to question yourself of where your weaknesses are and find out how to build on those weaknesses. The Truth always hurts and there is no escaping inabilty to learn.

I am an example of such misgivings, Below average WR/XP/Dmg all because for the first 2k battles was clueless and it is now difficult to escape overall poor play early on. However, although my WR is like a Yoyo the other measures are gradually improving simply because I spend more time reading the forums/wiki, watching How it works, Streamers/ Ytubers.

 

Do away with the Day1 stats you are only fooling yourself into believing that your better than you are esp. 100 battles this is nothing to compare how you are developing in the game itself. Also to finish, Any newcomer from the day you hit level15 start researching the game and ships, how to aim/angle and role each ship plays in securing a victory. The rest will fall itno place over time.

 

best of luck

ODB

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Hi all,

 

44 minutes ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

Regarding Win Rates

According to WOW Win Rates:

1. Win rate is based on all wins, losses, and ties, not just the latest 100 battles.
2. The record of battles of a ship is taken into a count of overall win rate regardless of whether it is on the account or not.
3. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses.

 

The person who has played 10,000 games (bad or good) has to play ten times the amount of games as the 1000 game player to raise or lower their WR 1%. How does that make sense? 
The fact that there are 12 ships in a game would seem to require some considerations

 

Consider the following suggestions:

1. Have the Win Rate only look at the last 100 games for each ship.

2. Regarding ships that are sold, they should not be included in the overall win rate unless the customer wants it to be. ( if it may have a good win rate)

3. So much of winning or losing a battle is determined by the combined effort and performance of 12 players, so it does not matter how good or bad you performed. Consider making a loss not be included in the win rate if your ship was in the top 3-5.

 


 

 

That's why we have nice WoWs stats WWW pages that can show all you need to know! :Smile_Default:

 

For example:

 

https://wows-numbers.com/player/545825272,Morgan2016_1/

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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51 minutes ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

1. Have the Win Rate only look at the last 100 games for each ship.

100 matches is unreliable for WR. 1000 matches is more accurate. Having an option to display WR for the last 1000 matches (per ship if you have that many; most don't) would be nice.

 

51 minutes ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

2. Regarding ships that are sold, they should not be included in the overall win rate unless the customer wants it to be. ( if it may have a good win rate)

Absolutely not. The only thing that should influence win rate is games played and whether they're won or lost. Owning ships is completely irrelevant for that, and only serves to make the stat useless.

 

51 minutes ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

3. So much of winning or losing a battle is determined by the combined effort and performance of 12 players, so it does not matter how good or bad you performed. Consider making a loss not be included in the win rate if your ship was in the top 3-5.

This is why WR needs about 1000 matches to be accurate. With that many factors involved you need a large sample base to get an accurate number. If you're counting other stats, like average damage, then you don't need nearly as many matches to get an equally accurate number. 100 matches to count average damage isn't too inaccurate, since damage is far more dependent on your own performance, and it's not a binary number. 100 matches to count WR is accurate only more often than not, but for statistics that's absolutely crap, since you can't rely on statistics that have a high chance of being wrong.

 

Anyway, not counting certain matches for WR means you're not counting WR. End of story.

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19 minutes ago, CptOddyB said:

I would say that the stats are fine the way they are and showing the player a historic view of performance, using this data to question yourself of where your weaknesses are and find out how to build on those weaknesses. The Truth always hurts and there is no escaping inabilty to learn.

I am an example of such misgivings, Below average WR/XP/Dmg all because for the first 2k battles was clueless and it is now difficult to escape overall poor play early on. However, although my WR is like a Yoyo the other measures are gradually improving simply because I spend more time reading the forums/wiki, watching How it works, Streamers/ Ytubers.

 

Do away with the Day1 stats you are only fooling yourself into believing that your better than you are esp. 100 battles this is nothing to compare how you are developing in the game itself. Also to finish, Any newcomer from the day you hit level15 start researching the game and ships, how to aim/angle and role each ship plays in securing a victory. The rest will fall itno place over time.

 

best of luck

ODB

Do not worry, you did not improve much.

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1 hour ago, ForlornSailor said:

Did you ask those kinda questions your math-teacher in school?

Do I dare to ask if you asked your grammar teacher questions like this?

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Even I get the math of WR. It's only telling in which % of the matches you were present is where won compared to the total. In my case it took me quite a long time of blindly screenlicking and facerolling my keyboard. With much practice and divving more I've learnt to actually look at the screen from time to time and where to roll my face on a particularly part of my keyboard. But the more matches you've played, the slower the impact in WR is. On the bright side: a losing streak doesn't influence the numbers that much as well. My overall WR is at the time I write this 52.54. I'm "carrying the burden" of my long wanne-be noobship. Now I'm an actual noob I'm writing purple and blue numbers on the short and mid long term for a long time now. But warpspeed will be invented long before my overall will be purple.

Also keep in mind your abilities is telling part of the story. You'll influence your WR by your player quality, sure. But there are other factors out of your control: your teammates' abilities and those of the reds, RNG and just blunt good or bad luck. Friend and foe all agree Flamu is an excellent player. But even he can't carry a whole team of, as he's saying it, potatoes alone.

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1 hour ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

1. Win rate is based on all wins, losses, and ties, not just the latest 100 battles.

As it should be, the last 100 battles will not give you a good representation of the overall WR. You can manipulate your stats, play your best ship for 100 battles, that becomes your WR, nope.

 

1 hour ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

2. The record of battles of a ship is taken into a count of overall win rate regardless of whether it is on the account or not.

As it should, you played it.

 

1 hour ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

3. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses.

Again, as it should.

 

1 hour ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

Consider the following suggestions:

1. Have the Win Rate only look at the last 100 games for each ship.

2. Regarding ships that are sold, they should not be included in the overall win rate unless the customer wants it to be. ( if it may have a good win rate)

3. So much of winning or losing a battle is determined by the combined effort and performance of 12 players, so it does not matter how good or bad you performed. Consider making a loss not be included in the win rate if your ship was in the top 3-5.

So what you are asking is to be able to manipulate your winrate by including/excluding ships or battles you don't like. Have a bad ship with poor winrate, sell it, no longer on your stats, as I've said above, play your best ship for 100 battles and suddenly your winrate is above what your actual skill level is. Why are people so obsessed with cheating the stats? Use them as a method of improving.

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2 hours ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

1. Have the Win Rate only look at the last 100 games for each ship.

Winrate is a REALLY straightforward stat. "What % of all of your battles have you won". You might also notice that there is not a single place in the game itself where the value actually has any sort of impact.

Now, I don't say I wouldn't like to see additions like

 - running winrate across the last 1000 battles

 - running winrate across tha last 100 battles for specific ships

 - some achievements/patches awarded for actual performance (as the nation-specific patches are) across the last 100 battles (as the class-specific patches are) so that these things actually give some bragging rights (rather than being an "I've played this nation a lot" or "I can farm damage" badges)

but this doesn't change the fact that global winrate is just that - your global winrate. And yes. Global averages are harder to change the more data you gather. The fact that it gets harder to change once you've hit 1000, 5000, 10 000 battles is the natural cinsequence and yes, it would be unfair... IF THERE WAS LITERALLY ANYTHING IN THE GAME THAT'S BASED ON YOUR WINRATE.

 

2 hours ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

2. Regarding ships that are sold, they should not be included in the overall win rate unless the customer wants it to be. ( if it may have a good win rate)

What? Why? Selling a ship doesn't un-play all the matches you've had with her. Why the hell should it magically erase your failures? :cap_wander:There are plenty ways to stat-pad, we really, REALLY don't need a "sell ships you sucked with" method.

 

2 hours ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

3. So much of winning or losing a battle is determined by the combined effort and performance of 12 players, so it does not matter how good or bad you performed. Consider making a loss not be included in the win rate if your ship was in the top 3-5.

When you lose, the correlation between your contribution and your position in the team isn't as strong as you seem to believe. A lost match is very often one where the most XP is gathered by the people who survived long enough to farm it. And it's hardly uncommon for the longest-surviving people to be cowardly campers that dragged the team down and then farmed damage and even kills on pushing enemies that normally wouldn't be so easy to camp but - in this situation - were just chasing that extra DMG in an already-won match. I myself have found myself opening fire on enemy cruiser in my badly damaged DD because... why not, I might set a fire, get a couple thousand extra DMG and my ignominious death can't possibly stop us from winning anyway.

It's not a solid rule, of course, there are also plenty people who work their stern off, dominate a flank, get #1 in team, Kraken, High Caliber and a defeat for all their trouble... but these people will be validated across 1000+ matches - as long as their performance wasn't just a fluke, these people will just end up winning almost all the winnable matches... and that means that their winrate is likely to be deep in the unicum range in the end.

 

TL/DR:

Winrate is winrate. It tells you what portion of your overall games you managed to win. While some additional stat that looks only at a fixed number of matches might be an interesting addition, it doesn't change the fact that there's literally no reason to try and mess with what the current global winrate is.

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2 hours ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

Regarding Win Rates

According to WOW Win Rates:

1. Win rate is based on all wins, losses, and ties, not just the latest 100 battles.
2. The record of battles of a ship is taken into a count of overall win rate regardless of whether it is on the account or not.
3. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses.

 

The person who has played 10,000 games (bad or good) has to play ten times the amount of games as the 1000 game player to raise or lower their WR 1%. How does that make sense? 
The fact that there are 12 ships in a game would seem to require some considerations

 

Consider the following suggestions:

1. Have the Win Rate only look at the last 100 games for each ship.

2. Regarding ships that are sold, they should not be included in the overall win rate unless the customer wants it to be. ( if it may have a good win rate)

3. So much of winning or losing a battle is determined by the combined effort and performance of 12 players, so it does not matter how good or bad you performed. Consider making a loss not be included in the win rate if your ship was in the top 3-5.

 


 

Absolutely spot on

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3 hours ago, Morgan2016_1 said:

Regarding Win Rates

According to WOW Win Rates:

1. Win rate is based on all wins, losses, and ties, not just the latest 100 battles.
2. The record of battles of a ship is taken into a count of overall win rate regardless of whether it is on the account or not.
3. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses. Once victory will go into the overall count of wins and losses.

 

The person who has played 10,000 games (bad or good) has to play ten times the amount of games as the 1000 game player to raise or lower their WR 1%. How does that make sense? 
The fact that there are 12 ships in a game would seem to require some considerations

 

Consider the following suggestions:

1. Have the Win Rate only look at the last 100 games for each ship.

2. Regarding ships that are sold, they should not be included in the overall win rate unless the customer wants it to be. ( if it may have a good win rate)

3. So much of winning or losing a battle is determined by the combined effort and performance of 12 players, so it does not matter how good or bad you performed. Consider making a loss not be included in the win rate if your ship was in the top 3-5.

 


 

 

So to sum up you want a way to make your stats look more flattering than your actual playing history.

I have my stats hidden and have for a very long time, mostly because it annoys the hell out of the stats obsessed people. The stats mean very little.

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22 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

 The stats mean very little.

Yeah, right. Makes no difference having 40% Solo-WR or Solo-60%+ players on your team.... :fish_palm:

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4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Yeah, right. Makes no difference having 40% Solo-WR or Solo-60%+ players on your team.... :fish_palm:

 

What difference does it make knowing what stats they have? They're in your team, there's nothing you can do about it and knowing doesn't change the team. The stats have zero material effect.

 

I've seen clowns in games saying they won't support or won't talk to people with hidden stats, it's a source of much hilarity.

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