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Laurance_of_Arabia

BB Dammed if you do Dammed if you don't

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Hi All.

Just like to air my frustrations. 

I play the Yamota and the Conqueror from a distance and then move into the caps when the field has spread out a little. These are built for reduced dispersion.

I play  the Großer Kurfürst and the Massachusetts mid range, find some island cover and get in close. This are built for secondaries, and to be honest are the most fun to play, but the most risky.

 

Which ever ship i am playing i always seem to get one A***hole moaning i should be doing the opposite. It annoys me so much i just want to turn chat off completely which would not be good for the game.

 

Has anyone got any useful retorts i can send back? It really make the game hard to play as i get angry when i should be enjoying myself.

 

 

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If you play like you're saying I'd say you're doing just fine. I'm done playing Fluffyballsooterama (my Yama is playing it's exact similar role as the RL one: rotting away in peace in port) and I don't have Mass. But in Monqueror I do exactly the same thing. It's no point in rushing in too early. Just HE spam and make them believe you won't use AP. Soot am HE salvo on a close-ish BS to make them convinced of that idea and then switch to AP. On the other hand I've specced my Kurry fully secondary. In that ship it's necessary to crawl in more closely more early. The catch is it's awesome concealment. Once spotted, always spotted. On the other hand: long range spamming is a pure lottery in GK.

So yeah: I think you're doing fine OP. Let the "haters" moan whatever they want. IMO you're on the right track. And I know: there is no 100% fail proof strategy in any ship.

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Beta Tester
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Ignore them. No better retort than not giving them the attention they crave.

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Use the mute function. That's a pretty good retort imo.

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Sounds weird to me that someone would complain about a BB being too close. Unless ofc its yoloing in.

Too passive however, happens almost every game that Cruisers/DDs are being angry with them. And who could blame them when they have to take all the heat?

Only you know if its called for, or not. When not, then ignore them. If it happens frequently, maybe they have a point however?

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Most BBs play best at mid range, which is around 12-14 km. Closer if you've got torpedo protection by other ships, own sonar, or there aren't any DDs close by. Either sniping or brawling is less optimal. The secondary BBs are best at secondary range to some 500 m closer.

 

Ignore people whining. They exist everywhere regardless. Report them if that makes you feel better. Maybe they'll get chatbanned.

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33 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Use the mute function. That's a pretty good retort imo.

This :cap_like:

 

Just report them for bad chat and blacklist them. It makes the game all the more appealing and more pleasant to game in. I got much better stuff to do instead of listening to a thousand captains who all claim to know exactly what you think and what you're doing wrong and why you are responsible for their burned pizza 2 years ago :Smile-_tongue:

 

The muting does work, I have come across players I had blacklisted before and all was quiet, except for the occasional ping on the minimap. I usually don't even let them know I blacklisted them in order to prevent retaliation, from disgrunted clanmembers of the blacklisted offender who often feel obliged to add to the reports I would otherwise receive :Smile_bajan2:

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Just a comment on the Conqueror, I don't see any reason to play it at long range per se.

 

Your concealment is 11.8 km, so you'd want to play close to that. You'll still have that window to disengage, but even with Conqueror's nice accuracy (which you note), you'll hit with more shells from closer up.

 

Successful BB play is just surprisingly hard. You really should ideally bring that armour in front, so it's you tanking and not the CL/CA. But with slow speed and worse concealment (but yeah, not the Conq) it's a bigger commitment in a BB, you just can't escape as easily. :cap_tea:

 

It's humanly understandable to hate a big guy sitting back, out of harm's way, when you're a small guy taking a beating in front.

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1 hour ago, Laurance_of_Arabia said:

Hi All.

Just like to air my frustrations. 

I play the Yamota and the Conqueror from a distance and then move into the caps when the field has spread out a little. These are built for reduced dispersion.

I play  the Großer Kurfürst and the Massachusetts mid range, find some island cover and get in close. This are built for secondaries, and to be honest are the most fun to play, but the most risky.

 

Which ever ship i am playing i always seem to get one A***hole moaning i should be doing the opposite. It annoys me so much i just want to turn chat off completely which would not be good for the game.

 

Has anyone got any useful retorts i can send back? It really make the game hard to play as i get angry when i should be enjoying myself.

 

 

 

Your frustrations are uninteresting, why does everyone feel the need to post some outrage every time people is mean on the internet?

 

And you also want "retort" that you can send back, reminds me of that other guy arguing it was fine to shoot on a team mate that was being obnoxious in chat. Hint, you dont do as they do, two negatives does not make a positive.

 

There are tools in game to deal with people bothering you in chat, use them.

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21 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

Most BBs play best at mid range, which is around 12-14 km. Closer if you've got torpedo protection by other ships, own sonar, or there aren't any DDs close by. Either sniping or brawling is less optimal. The secondary BBs are best at secondary range to some 500 m closer.

A bit too general - it depends on HE resistance you have on your armor, captain and upgrades, it depends on support you have and it depends who you are facing. 

If there is unspotted DD threat (Asashio for example) or unspotted T10 BB - battleships will hesitate, if there's many HE spammers softer BB (BBaguettes or Conquerors for example) certainly will not push. 

But it is of course feedback loop, and cruisers will not push into BB, DD into cruisers and so on. Divisions are usually such stalemate breakers ;)

21 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

 

Ignore people whining. They exist everywhere regardless. Report them if that makes you feel better. Maybe they'll get chatbanned.

There are some stereotypes, like "camping Conqueror" - people don't understand that the main defense this boat has is the heal - and you can't heal torp hits, also focused HE spam will finish him faster than his heal reloads, so he has to be able to disengage. Missouri really needs her flank covered before she advances close enough to use the famous "BB radar". Also some "brawling BB" like a Kurfurst probably died so many times before that he has to really see the support before he commits.

That is why people choose the safest way, and if WG rewards them for damage mainly (ie. surviving), why should they change anything? 

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@EdiJo also a lot of people tend to love to forget that going into close quarters combat when bottom tier (in any boat really) does tend to be a quick way to get sent back to port.

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3 minutes ago, jss78 said:

Just a comment on the Conqueror, I don't see any reason to play it at long range per se.

 

Your concealment is 11.8 km, so you'd want to play close to that. You'll still have that window to disengage, but even with Conqueror's nice accuracy (which you note), you'll hit with more shells from closer up.

Heh, I just mentioned Conqueror above... The 12km you mention counts from the nearest enemy, which is usually some unspotted DD (I don't count CV games now). You don't know where he is, and enemy BB are usually at least 5-7km behind this dd, so it already makes at least 17km, right? :cap_book:

Not that I play at this distance all the time, but according to your safe calculation of "window to disengage" you are typically 17-20km from your enemy BB targets - typical Conqu-camper ;)

 

3 minutes ago, jss78 said:

 

Successful BB play is just surprisingly hard. You really should ideally bring that armour in front, so it's you tanking and not the CL/CA. But with slow speed and worse concealment (but yeah, not the Conq) it's a bigger commitment in a BB, you just can't escape as easily. :cap_tea:

 

It's humanly understandable to hate a big guy sitting back, out of harm's way, when you're a small guy taking a beating in front.

Usually point of view depends on point of sitting - but most vocal against BB are often people without much experience in the boat they are talking about. They just heard something or "have a view"... Like some angry (purple) Kurfurst which complained about enemy Conqueror murdering him, calling him "broken noob boat" and such, then quite silent when I brought down that Conqueror to a few k HP in my Zao while kiting and being shot by multiple ships (yes, we lost...) :cap_old:

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Tell them you saw whatever you're doing on YouTube and that they need to learn to play. Then mute them. :Smile_great:

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1 minute ago, Juanx said:

Your frustrations are uninteresting, why does everyone feel the need to post some outrage every time people is mean on the internet?

Your complaining is uninteresting. Why does everyone feel the need to post some outrage every time someone expresses frustration on the internet?

 

1 minute ago, EdiJo said:

A bit too general - it depends on HE resistance you have on your armor, captain and upgrades, it depends on support you have and it depends who you are facing.

Of course it depends on the situation. However, they still perform the best at those ranges. Longer, and dispersion will take a hit, since they're not that accurate. Shorter, and you won't gain much in dispersion, and cruisers will have an easier time penetrating your armour, as well as the increased torpedo danger. Other situations may require you to be more careful, but that also means you'll perform worse. Best for the situation, perhaps, but still worse than the optimal.

 

1 minute ago, EdiJo said:

Missouri really needs her flank covered before she advances close enough to use the famous "BB radar".

I find that Missouri plays well in two ways: flanking or close range radar support. It's a manoeuvrable ship with accurate guns and decent AA, so flanking works well. Radar also keeps DDs away. You've also got decent bow tanking capabilities, so getting in close to the caps so you can radar them also works well. If the map allows, sometimes you can even go in brawling without fear of being surprised by ships hiding behind islands. Radar just makes her so ridiculously easy to play compared to other BBs, and BBs are already easy to play.

 

1 minute ago, EdiJo said:

Also some "brawling BB" like a Kurfurst probably died so many times before that he has to really see the support before he commits.

I don't play the Germans above Bismarck, but secondary brawling is generally less effective than staying a little bit safer with a survival build. Of course, brawling is a lot more fun. It's also usually more inefficient to brawl at T10 than at T8.

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26 minutes ago, jss78 said:

Just a comment on the Conqueror, I don't see any reason to play it at long range per se.

 

Your concealment is 11.8 km, so you'd want to play close to that. You'll still have that window to disengage, but even with Conqueror's nice accuracy (which you note), you'll hit with more shells from closer up.

 

Successful BB play is just surprisingly hard. You really should ideally bring that armour in front, so it's you tanking and not the CL/CA. But with slow speed and worse concealment (but yeah, not the Conq) it's a bigger commitment in a BB, you just can't escape as easily. :cap_tea:

 

It's humanly understandable to hate a big guy sitting back, out of harm's way, when you're a small guy taking a beating in front.

To be honest i have only had it a couple of days, and my preferred play style is brawling. I have been getting bit closer every match and i agree with your point. Long range is boring, upfront and personal is much more fun. I think i may have to respect my captain and get EL because close range the AP is quite good.

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2 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

 

Of course it depends on the situation. However, they still perform the best at those ranges. Longer, and dispersion will take a hit, since they're not that accurate. Shorter, and you won't gain much in dispersion, and cruisers will have an easier time penetrating your armour, as well as the increased torpedo danger. Other situations may require you to be more careful, but that also means you'll perform worse. Best for the situation, perhaps, but still worse than the optimal.

 

I find that Missouri plays well in two ways: flanking or close range radar support. It's a manoeuvrable ship with accurate guns and decent AA, so flanking works well. Radar also keeps DDs away. You've also got decent bow tanking capabilities, so getting in close to the caps so you can radar them also works well. If the map allows, sometimes you can even go in brawling without fear of being surprised by ships hiding behind islands. Radar just makes her so ridiculously easy to play compared to other BBs, and BBs are already easy to play.

 

I don't play the Germans above Bismarck, but secondary brawling is generally less effective than staying a little bit safer with a survival build. Of course, brawling is a lot more fun. It's also usually more inefficient to brawl at T10 than at T8.

You just mentioned some arbitrary 12-14km, and it is generally not true. When you have DD/HE spam threat present, you keep much further away, unless pushing with anti-DD screening and support allowing to kill/silence any HE spammers. People often to forget that last part, and expect BB to push "because he has the HP". 

When fighting vs enemy BB/cruisers I tend to be close - the only problem are for example cruiser torpedoes or secondaries-built BB, and that is why the distance may be ~12-13 km... 

Because in general - the closer the better ;)   It is really fun to brawl in T10 BB and score those 40+k salvos (well, maybe not in a Yama ;) )

 

Regarding Missouri I was mentioning the radar, because this is when the whining occurs - people expect you to hunt DD, and Missou is a bit less concealed and less maneuverable for a solo anti-DD cruiser.

 

BB are easy to play only if you camp or lemming, or play in some synergizing division - any closer solo play is actually not easy with random teams... Sometimes for instance DD are dead before you even can get to the area, everybody runs away and of course you hear about "camping BB" and such plus get reported :cap_tea:

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14 hours ago, Laurance_of_Arabia said:

To be honest i have only had it a couple of days, and my preferred play style is brawling. I have been getting bit closer every match and i agree with your point. Long range is boring, upfront and personal is much more fun. I think i may have to respect my captain and get EL because close range the AP is quite good.

I remember once giving my Conqueror to my 15-yrs old son for trying out - he has an account, but usually plays T5-T7. He went full ham in a cyclone game and in a few minutes made some 250k dmg mostly with AP :cap_wander:on a few surprised BB and cruisers. Full astonishment, I am too old for such plays in Conqueror, although I am doing it in a Republique to some degree sometimes. :cap_yes:

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21 minutes ago, AnotherDuck said:

I don't play the Germans above Bismarck, but secondary brawling is generally less effective than staying a little bit safer with a survival build. Of course, brawling is a lot more fun. It's also usually more inefficient to brawl at T10 than at T8.

I managed to get over 120k secondary damage in the Kurfürst yesterday. I love the Bismark but the secondaries are so much more powerful on the Großer, its worth the risk. :Smile_teethhappy:

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23 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

Heh, I just mentioned Conqueror above... The 12km you mention counts from the nearest enemy, which is usually some unspotted DD (I don't count CV games now). You don't know where he is, and enemy BB are usually at least 5-7km behind this dd, so it already makes at least 17km, right? :cap_book:

Not that I play at this distance all the time, but according to your safe calculation of "window to disengage" you are typically 17-20km from your enemy BB targets - typical Conqu-camper ;)

This is true. I guess I was thinking of a situation where there's a friendly DD/cruiser screen (the guys presumably complaining). I see no wisdom pushing into an undetected DD when unescorted.

 

I try to think of BB positioning in terms of an "acceptable level of risk". I'm willing to put myself in that potential torpedo zone, because there's also an inherent value in taking the heat off the friendly DD/cruisers. If I stay in perfect safety, they'll die, and though safe I'm unlikely to win the game on my own.

 

But I try to keep it such that I don't die early very often.

 

 

 

 

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I havent seen even decent Monqueror player more than once every 50 games, you need to use your Health and tank for your team. 

 

If i see Mongqueror 100% hp and team is half dead, he is doing it wrong, you can print new ship on every heal and your armor is reliable vs AP. 

 

Yamato playing bit safer isnt an issue, it can pull fire on himself and still deal dmg 15km+ and it is very vunerable to being flanked. 

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7 hours ago, Laurance_of_Arabia said:

I managed to get over 120k secondary damage in the Kurfürst yesterday. I love the Bismark but the secondaries are so much more powerful on the Großer, its worth the risk. :Smile_teethhappy:

It really isnt worth the risk. IFHE troll build might be fun once or twice but tier for tier GKs secondaries are arent that effective because without a survivabilty build you GK goes down much faster than a BSM would. 

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those ppl probably have the idea that the kurfurst and mass have secondery's  to rush in with then tunnelvision to a cap and lose their  ships with the most HP at the start of the game.

those ppl should  not be alowed in high tiers. i would say you do alright playing like that Even tanky ships like the kurfurst can not stay alive long going in yolo. 

That said  the yamato and conquerer can get in midrange as well. especialy the conquerer with its concealment can be played like that.

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8 hours ago, EdiJo said:

You just mentioned some arbitrary 12-14km, and it is generally not true. When you have DD/HE spam threat present, you keep much further away, unless pushing with anti-DD screening and support allowing to kill/silence any HE spammers.

It's true for the majority of BBs the majority of times. It's only in the top tiers where that puts you even in torpedo range, and the more you back off from that distance, the more firepower you will lose.

 

8 hours ago, EdiJo said:

BB are easy to play only if you camp or lemming, or play in some synergizing division - any closer solo play is actually not easy with random teams... Sometimes for instance DD are dead before you even can get to the area, everybody runs away and of course you hear about "camping BB" and such plus get reported :cap_tea:

BBs are by far the easiest ships to play. There's no competition at all. You've got tons of HP and armour to protect you from mistakes, great firepower that punches through most things with just stray shots, and good range to be able to shoot at least something almost all of the time. There are simply no other ships that are more forgiving or give better results for worse play.

 

59 minutes ago, Guillotine said:

Yamato playing bit safer isnt an issue, it can pull fire on himself and still deal dmg 15km+ and it is very vunerable to being flanked. 

Yamato is one of those ships that the moment you're spotted, you'll be focused. Doesn't really matter what range you're at, as long as you're in range of the enemies. Priority Target is often above 4-5.

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Simples @Laurance_of_Arabia my friend. Just leave damming to the beavers and do what you think is best. There will always be some wiseguy thinking he knows it better, but then again he's not captaining your ship is he? So while taking some well-founded advice on occasion is advisable, criticism without such merits has no value, so just ignore it and do as you see fit. Works every time!:cap_like:

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I'm never being called out when playing BB, and lately I'm playing Yamato and République a lot (Legendary module...). Unless I really do f*ck up superbly which happens and I know when I do.

So either I don't even notice, or I'm too good for that. :cap_popcorn:

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