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Au revoir, you old standalone launcher. The "Wargaming Game Center" will be forced upon us all in the near future

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1 hour ago, Malfuss said:

I've just uninstalled and reinstalled to check on your second point, the current update definitely allows you to change installation directory. I changed from C: to D:

What operating system are you using and did you download the current version of the installer?

 

It seems that the installer is using some windows directive that is restricting the install location on various system (never heard of that before). It's currently discussed on the german forums and on reddit.

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51 minutes ago, 10ThousandThings said:

Good to know! :Smile_great::Smile-_tongue:

I guess I was trying to establish whether the concerns people are expressing boil down to 1) the possibility of your PC being used as a seeder to torrent game data (which, if I've understood correctly, can be resolved with the 'no upload' option) 2) WGC using inappropriately high amounts of RAM and only being minimised when you 'close' it (which can be resolved by stopping it manually, as pointlessly cumbersome as this is), or whether there was something else of that order that I'd missed.

 

I can live with it being unnecessary (as in, WOWS is the only WG title I play, and I'm not interested in any of the others) and with it pushing advertising (which can just be ignored, and is significantly less advertising than I see just on my walk into work every day), even though neither is ideal.

It would certainly be nice to have some answers to these questions, though. +1

problem is when launchers become the norm for playing one game. and all those launchers serve as ad platforms and are configured to run in the background eating up resources.

 

having one steam is not a problem, but having origin, uplay, arc, gog, razer,  wgc and whatever other app is there for launching one game isnt ok. i dont need 10 adware/marketing tool/spyware applications on my computer and learning what they can or cannot do. and yeah a lot of those apps have in tos option to participate in "surveys" where they take your computer data.

 

i mentioned 7 apps here for launching games. and every one takes 200-300MB of resources. do we really need 7 of those? and i guess i didnt even cover half of them that exist nowadays... just the biggest..

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14 minutes ago, robihr said:

problem is when launchers become the norm for playing one game. and all those launchers serve as ad platforms and are configured to run in the background eating up resources.

 

having one steam is not a problem, but having origin, uplay, arc, gog, razer,  wgc and whatever other app is there for launching one game isnt ok. i dont need 10 adware/marketing tool/spyware applications on my computer and learning what they can or cannot do. and yeah a lot of those apps have in tos option to participate in "surveys" where they take your computer data.

 

i mentioned 7 apps here for launching games. and every one takes 200-300MB of resources. do we really need 7 of those? and i guess i didnt even cover half of them that exist nowadays... just the biggest..

Yeah, fair point. I'm in the (probably minority) position of WOWS being really the only game I play, so maybe have more tolerance for this particular launcher than others. But I agree that it seems like an unnecessary and unwelcome imposition on players.

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I don't need another launcher.

Correct, and you won't get another launcher, you will replace your old one with this one.The old launcher is at the end of it's software life cycle and no longer in development by the software distributor. The old lient did exactly the same as this one, with less information, less settings, and less scalability, on a more rigid framework, with a dated proprietary framework. It still scanned your installation, it still pinged the CDN servers, it still updated your game, it still needed RAM to get those updates, etc. pp. - effectively (for the end-user) no change to before.

 

I don't want WG.net to decide what I download, or when, or sneakily push software on my device!
Correct, and they won't do that. You can use it for just one program, i.e. WoWS, and you can manage update automation or turn it off entirely and only update when you want that to happen. WGC also uses desktop notifications to announce when it finds updates, what it does with them, and when the download/install has finished. No negative change to before, only more utility, more transparent information.

I don't want bloatware to increase my CPU load/RAM load/impact my performance/drive up my electricity bill!

A valid expectation and demand, thankfully realized in the fact that the WGC has a rather slim footprint, equivalent to the old launcher. Closing a single tab in Chrome/Firefox will free up more resources than the WGC needs. The CPU load, when idle, is none. The only time the WGC demands resource is during updates, just as the old launcher. Virtually no change to before.

I don't want WG.net to force me to install Spyware! And what about the torrenting integrated in this client? 

Correct and valid, too. The WGC isn't spyware, though - and while WG.net knows plenty about you by virtue of your online times, your email address, your IP range used, potentially your PayPal and credit card info, and more, the WGC does not collect this information - you provide it yourself, and blaming the WGC for being spyware is uncalled for. As the person labeling it as such later on admitted, it was the entirely optional torrent seeding element that flagged the WGC as questionable. Which also answer what's up with that: The seeding/torrent node functionality is entirely in your control - just like the old launcher. No change to before.

 

I don't have Steam running and turn it to offline mode when I want to play a Steam game. I don't want the WGC to run in the background!

Entirely fine. Just like Steam, you can always turn the WGC off and disable it's auto-start behavior. You are in control here. It even informs you when you hit the 'X' that it is still running in the background, lest someone would think it is off when it's still running. A simple task termination or exiting the WGC via tray icon will end the program, just like with the old launcher. No change to before.


Tray icon menu:

XMWnfHX.png

 

I only play WoWS, so I don't need a unified launcher, this is pointless.

You may not need a unified launcher for more than one program from the developer's software catalog, but even at that point it is the de facto next iteration of your chosen piece of software's Content Delivery Network Client. Consider this, in your case, as the next version of your previous launcher, and feel free to ignore the other items from the software catalog. Yet, if you ever decide to check out the PTS, you are already a valid benefactor of this unified client - because PTS and Live (NA/EU/SEA) are two (1 + 1/region) separate pieces of software.

 

This WGC uses a website to push premium ads to me, and how do I know if this is secure?

The WGC seems to use either Elektron directly or Chrome WebKit (upon which Elektron is based). Why does that matter - because that turns the WGC as secure as Discord, which is made with Elektron, which is based on the Chrome WebKit. If you don't trust Discord, then you don't have to trust the WGC. If you trust Discord, well, the WGC is the same piece of inherent coding at the heart, maintained by Google. Face your wrath that way - or sleep safe and sound, whichever way you swing. This isn't a fundamental change from the previous client, though, which pushed data to the updater client via LUA, fetching website data directly from WG.net, too. - Same approach, but not maintained by Google. It's a change, but a change for the better.

What about never change a running system, or if it ain't broken, don't fix it?

These statements make sense in monolithic, slowly developing aspects of life - carpentry, clockmaking, landscaping. When it comes to software, eras are often measured in months, vulnerabilities and programming standards change in short time, and with the advent of Elektron, the amount of Chrome WebKit applications is exploding. As a result, these 'new technologies' get a lot of feature additions and have a ready and able pool of personnel to hire for in-house development. Contemporary programming frame works are more modular and easily maintained for future changes, and more resilient to security breaks by virtue of an engaged and diverse open source development platform, whereas proprietary technologies, such as the old WG.net launcher, are insular and vulnerable due to a lack of outside oversight and dated programming techniques. If you like stability and security, these proverbs don't apply in the world of computers - they are the reasons why ILoveYou was so devastating. They are also the reason why governments lost data to leaks and hacks - for example, in the year 2015, the government of Germany was still running Windows XP, despite that being out of extended service life cycle.

But newer isn't automatically better! We need some time to test this!

The WGC isn't new, even if you may just have heard of it, or just now look at it for real for the first time. The WGC has been around for a while and had it's fair share of issues, of which numerous have been mentioned in the thread so far. Yet, a multitude of those are nowadays either user error or patched out. Few programs are perfect when they come out, but clinging to bug reports of previous versions is like blaming a new car for an issue with a prior one. In this case, newer is better. It has been tested. Maybe not by you, but by others, internally and externally. If you didn't want to test it when it was still in its infancy, if you didn't want to endure the bugs, the problems, the crashes, the freezes, the mistakes others went through, that is entirely fine - but that doesn't mean it hasn't been tested.

So, what's the summary?
You don't lose any functionalities of the old launcher, you keep the same low footprint, you retain or expand your options to control and stay informed about just what the CDN client does on your system. Additionally, you can always kill the program - just like with the old client.

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1 hour ago, 10ThousandThings said:

Good to know! :Smile_great::Smile-_tongue:

I guess I was trying to establish whether the concerns people are expressing boil down to 1) the possibility of your PC being used as a seeder to torrent game data (which, if I've understood correctly, can be resolved with the 'no upload' option) 2) WGC using inappropriately high amounts of RAM and only being minimised when you 'close' it (which can be resolved by stopping it manually, as pointlessly cumbersome as this is), or whether there was something else of that order that I'd missed.

 

I can live with it being unnecessary (as in, WOWS is the only WG title I play, and I'm not interested in any of the others) and with it pushing advertising (which can just be ignored, and is significantly less advertising than I see just on my walk into work every day), even though neither is ideal.

It would certainly be nice to have some answers to these questions, though. +1

You're still missing the main point. For the stated purpose the game center is simply bloatware, as in way more complex than needed. By forcing this upon the masses a monoculture is created, which makes this a valid target for attacks. Now, do you trust WG to have competence to prevent that at all times? Again, we're talking about a company that can't even fix something as simple as a user interface and is known to generally not give a rat's furry crack about customer complaints. It may not be WG who's mining coins or using your computer for whatever shady purpose, but they're certainly doing their level best to increase the possibility somebody else might. Out of incompetence or malice is entirely irrelevant here, the result is the same.

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1 hour ago, Egoleter said:

What operating system are you using and did you download the current version of the installer?

 

It seems that the installer is using some windows directive that is restricting the install location on various system (never heard of that before). It's currently discussed on the german forums and on reddit.

I'm on up to date Windows 10 64 bit. WGC is version 18.4.1.595, downloaded yesterday.

 

I have uninstalled again, and tried various different locations and folder names, they all seem to work, however for full disclosure, I have cancelled the installation before it is completely installed as I want it in the default location.

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Im using this WGC since they introduce it.

When I saw some announcement yesterday about new game launcher I totally forgot its that.

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10 minutes ago, tenacious_torps said:

For the stated purpose the game center is simply bloatware, as in way more complex than needed. By forcing this upon the masses a monoculture is created, which makes this a valid target for attacks. Now, do you trust WG to have competence to prevent that at all times? Again, we're talking about a company that can't even fix something as simple as a user interface and is known to generally not give a rat's furry crack about customer complaints. It may not be WG who's mining coins or using your computer for whatever shady purpose, but they're certainly doing their level best to increase the possibility somebody else might. Out of incompetence or malice is entirely irrelevant here, the result is the same.

But these statements are factually incorrect, goal-post moving, conjecture or doomsaying. You are also appealing to emotion rather than fact, and fearmongering at that. If you use Discord, then you can use the WGC. Same software at its core. And the slippery slope insinuation that just because X hasn't happened doesn't mean X won't happen is outside of the range of reasonable assumption. Please provide a list of known security vulnerabilities the WGC has to back up these claims.

Re: Mono-culture; In case of OS X, the slim market share resulted in few virii to be written for Macs. With the rise of market share, the virii for OS X increased, and it's now just as targeted as a Windows system. The only operating system truly resilient to virii and exploits on a large scale is Linux, and that is mostly because of the instantaneous addressing of the Open Source community. The WGC, with what appears to be an Elektron core or at the very least Chrome WebKit, would benefit from the same Open Source community shielding that wards other Google products from intrusion; social engineering or phishing not withstanding (which aren't system vulnerabilities, but user vulnerabilities). By your line of argumentation, the WGC is more secure than the current proprietary launcher.

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11 minutes ago, tenacious_torps said:

You're still missing the main point. For the stated purpose the game center is simply bloatware, as in way more complex than needed. By forcing this upon the masses a monoculture is created, which makes this a valid target for attacks. Now, do you trust WG to have competence to prevent that at all times? Again, we're talking about a company that can't even fix something as simple as a user interface and is known to generally not give a rat's furry crack about customer complaints. It may not be WG who's mining coins or using your computer for whatever shady purpose, but they're certainly doing their level best to increase the possibility somebody else might. Out of incompetence or malice is entirely irrelevant here, the result is the same.

Thanks for the explanation, got it. And it's being more complex than strictly necessary/than the previous launcher presumably increases potential vulnerabilities? And turning off the uploads and stopping it when you don't actually need it to be running are insufficient to mitigate said potential vulnerabilities, whereas this was less of an issue on the previous launcher?

 

Sorry for being a bit slow on this. As I said, I'm less familiar with some of the 'under-the-bonnet' stuff on my PC than I would like to be...

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Seeing as I've used the game center since I started playing WoWS, found it to be a perfectly adequate piece of content delivery software akin to e.g. the battle.net client and never had any issues with it... I'm honestly not quite sure what all the fuss is about.

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Goodbye World of Warships. You were a good game, but unfortunately Wargaming has done everything in its power to make you undesirable. At this point everything about this game is just tiresome and inconvenient.

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7 minutes ago, 10ThousandThings said:

Thanks for the explanation, got it. And it's being more complex than strictly necessary/than the previous launcher presumably increases potential vulnerabilities? And turning off the uploads and stopping it when you don't actually need it to be running are insufficient to mitigate said potential vulnerabilities, whereas this was less of an issue on the previous launcher?

 

Sorry for being a bit slow on this. As I said, I'm less familiar with some of the 'under-the-bonnet' stuff on my PC than I would like to be...

The biggest vulnerability is the integrated mini-browser, about which we know very little at this point. That alone is more than enough reason to be very suspicious. Just take into account how often your regular browser receives updates - and how that often enough is far from sufficient and what plethora of thingies you need to run to keep that half-way safe. You don't have that option here. In fact you don't have any control over what goes on there, neither on your side, nor on the servers game center pulls its content from. It's the equivalent of leaving your front door unlocked and going on vacation.

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Alle 8/3/2018 alle 16:56, 10ThousandThings ha scritto:

Sorry for being a bit slow on this. As I said, I'm less familiar with some of the 'under-the-bonnet' stuff on my PC than I would like to be...

That's entirely fine and alright. Not everyone needs to know the very last detail about how a program operates, as long as they can service it. Yet, when people get together a lot of urban legends and half wisdom lead to statements taken at face value, because it is hard to discern for a layman which statement is correct. Once you get into the territory of emotionally driven agendas (wittingly or not), you will simply end up with camps, as people are inherently tribal and will always look for a team to join and then make front against the other side. Just like in console vs. PC arguments, console wars, and so on, you'll find many parties with a myriad of motivators equally malevolent, ignorant, educated and benevolent vying for your attention and accord. It's sadly up to you to decide who presents their arguments better, and then go and research if you care to verify the claims made.

Just don't get lured into a camp and assume that general consensus, or the 'loudest cuckoo feeding' situation are indicators of truth. More often than not, an educated minority can lay claim to factual correctness, while an ignorant majority refuses to accept this, due to being riled up by loud words. Check who appeals to fact and reason, and who appeals to emotion, prejudice and stereotypes. It's a rather common tactic to make an uneducated 'voter' feel integrated and smart by suggesting they replace their lack of knowledge with their hut judgment, and we as people are inherently wired to believe ourselves and appreciate people that tell us we're right. Sadly, that easily makes you fall for something incorrect.

 

Alle 8/3/2018 alle 16:59, Uglesett ha scritto:

I'm honestly not quite sure what all the fuss is about.

Resistance to change based on outdated hearsay with refusal to accept improvements and half-truths perpetuated by people refusing the change their mind in face of new facts.
 

23 ore fa, Tubit101 ha scritto:

At this point everything about this game is just tiresome and inconvenient.

The WGC does exactly what the old launcher did, and is no less convenient to use than the old client. There is zero loss of usability, zero additional steps, simply a more modern, more contemporary, better supported version of the launcher. If you want to leave the game, that is entirely fine, but it's hardly fair nor reasonable to blame this on something as innocent and rarely encountered as the CDN client. Can you name what function of the WGC is more tiresome/inconvenient?

 

23 ore fa, tenacious_torps ha scritto:

The biggest vulnerability is the integrated mini-browser, about which we know very little at this point. That alone is more than enough reason to be very suspicious. Just take into account how often your regular browser receives updates - and how that often enough is far from sufficient and what plethora of thingies you need to run to keep that half-way safe. You don't have that option here. In fact you don't have any control over what goes on there, neither on your side, nor on the servers game center pulls its content from. It's the equivalent of leaving your front door unlocked and going on vacation.

Appeal to emotion, and also incorrect.

The mini browser is a feature the old launcher has, too. No change.
The WGC uses Chrome WebKit or Elektron, Open Source, with expedited security updates. Improvement.
Corruption of the WG.net CDN servers has not become different as a vector from the old client. No change.
Operating system security on Windows devices requires little more than something lightweight, such as Spybot Search & Destroy, and some registry hardening offered by such lightweight software, plus not visiting dubious websites.
You don't have that option in the old launcher. No change. You don't have that option in Discord, either. Or in WhatsApp Web (Desktop), Facebook Messenger, Franz or many other Elektron/Chrome WebKit based programs.
The average user has no control over these processes to begin with, because they don't even know that is going on.
A power user has full control over what is going on via Firewalls, Anti-Malware, Anti-Virus software, and last but not least, the UAC of Windows 7/10.

And you will never have control over what's coming from the servers. Not with WoWS, not with WoT, not with Office 365, not with virus definitions for your Kaspersky, not with the next update to TeamSpeak, not with any game you didn't get from physical media. You can only block it (firewall) and/or uninstall it.

You comparison is faulty. It's like leaving the window open to hear the birds sing. Yeah, someone could throw a stone into your living room, but it's either that, or no birds singing. Close your window, lock your door. Cut your internet. There is no reason for increased or vector with heightened risk of malware accessing (let alone running) on your operating system with the WGC than with the old client, and if anything, it's more secure due to a commonly shared and regularly updated code base, with millions of adopters and subsequently, a large pool of maintaining software professionals and frrelance contributors, as opposed to the old proprietary system.

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32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

I don't need another launcher.

Correct, and you won't get another launcher, you will replace your old one with this one.

It is not launcher, it is some Game Center Daemon running in the background all the time. Launcher is something which launches, and exits

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

The old launcher is at the end of it's software life cycle and no longer in development by the software distributor.

I don't care and don't put it as some inevitable future. Devote some developer time to maintain the simple launcher. I pay for this game, and this is not a huge software effort.

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

The old lient did exactly the same as this one, with less information, less settings, and less scalability,

I don't care about scalability. WG has enough income and not so huge player base to support simple client-server approach. If someone wants to have a torrent client built into some Game Center - OK, why not, but I dont agree to force that to everyone!

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

on a more rigid framework, with a dated proprietary framework. It still scanned your installation, it still pinged the CDN servers, it still updated your game, it still needed RAM to get those updates, etc. pp. - effectively (for the end-user) no change to before.

And it exited before the game actually started. You really don't see the difference?

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

 

I don't want WG.net to decide what I download, or when, or sneakily push software on my device!
Correct, and they won't do that. You can use it for just one program, i.e. WoWS, and you can manage update automation or turn it off entirely and only update when you want that to happen. WGC also uses desktop notifications to announce when it finds updates, what it does with them, and when the download/install has finished. No negative change to before, only more utility, more transparent information.

Nothing is "more transparent"! It is some background task doing something which I don't know about. I want it to download things, and EXIT. Cease to run. You can look for more synonyms in the Monty Python's parrot sketch. 

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

I don't want bloatware to increase my CPU load/RAM load/impact my performance/drive up my electricity bill!

A valid expectation and demand, thankfully realized in the fact that the WGC has a rather slim footprint, equivalent to the old launcher. Closing a single tab in Chrome/Firefox will free up more resources than the WGC needs. The CPU load, when idle, is none. The only time the WGC demands resource is during updates, just as the old launcher. Virtually no change to before.

The main change is that it is no longer me who decides WHEN the resources are "demanded". I want to run my updates manually, is it really so impossible? 

 

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:



I don't want WG.net to force me to install Spyware! And what about the torrenting integrated in this client? 

Correct and valid, too. The WGC isn't spyware, though - and while WG.net knows plenty about you by virtue of your online times, your email address, your IP range used, potentially your PayPal and credit card info, and more, the WGC does not collect this information - you provide it yourself, and blaming the WGC for being spyware is uncalled for. As the person labeling it as such later on admitted, it was the entirely optional torrent seeding element that flagged the WGC as questionable. Which also answer what's up with that: The seeding/torrent node functionality is entirely in your control - just like the old launcher. No change to before.

It is a bit different level when you have something running 24x365, also there is no promise about those functionalities being "in our control" in the future. Monopoly tends to force people to things, ya know. 

 

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

 

I don't have Steam running and turn it to offline mode when I want to play a Steam game. I don't want the WGC to run in the background!

Entirely fine. Just like Steam, you can always turn the WGC off and disable it's auto-start behavior. You are in control here. It even informs you when you hit the 'X' that it is still running in the background, lest someone would think it is off when it's still running. A simple task termination or exiting the WGC via tray icon will end the program, just like with the old launcher. No change to before.


Tray icon menu:

XMWnfHX.png

I don't need another tray icon, the tray is already full of trash which I have to click from time to time - instead of being able to control when the piece of software starts

 

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

I only play WoWS, so I don't need a unified launcher, this is pointless.

You may not need a unified launcher for more than one program from the developer's software catalog, but even at that point it is the de facto next iteration of your chosen piece of software's Content Delivery Network Client. Consider this, in your case, as the next version of your previous launcher, and feel free to ignore the other items from the software catalog. Yet, if you ever decide to check out the PTS, you are already a valid benefactor of this unified client - because PTS and Live (NA/EU/SEA) are two (1 + 1/region) separate pieces of software.

Separating regions is already a greedy cash grab which I disapprove.

Any functions of the Game Center which may be useful are perfectly fine, but we are talking about the Game Center installation being voluntary. I don't want to be forced to install this, when I don't need it.

 

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

 

This WGC uses a website to push premium ads to me, and how do I know if this is secure?

The WGC seems to use either Elektron directly or Chrome WebKit (upon which Elektron is based). Why does that matter - because that turns the WGC as secure as Discord, which is made with Elektron, which is based on the Chrome WebKit. If you don't trust Discord, then you don't have to trust the WGC. If you trust Discord, well, the WGC is the same piece of inherent coding at the heart, maintained by Google. Face your wrath that way - or sleep safe and sound, whichever way you swing. This isn't a fundamental change from the previous client, though, which pushed data to the updater client via LUA, fetching website data directly from WG.net, too. - Same approach, but not maintained by Google. It's a change, but a change for the better.

I don't care, I don't want to think about possible vulnerabilities or platform issues, I simply don't want it to run in the background - why can't I have such an option?

 

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:



What about never change a running system, or if it ain't broken, don't fix it?

These statements make sense in monolithic, slowly developing aspects of life - carpentry, clockmaking, landscaping.

BS. I mentioned it in a context of one of the fastest growing technical/science areas, and it still applies there. 

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

When it comes to software, eras are often measured in months, vulnerabilities and programming standards change in short time,

Fairy tales. I've seen computers from 1960's still operational and their software running perfectly well. All depends on approach, isolation and quality. 

 

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

and with the advent of Elektron, the amount of Chrome WebKit applications is exploding. As a result, these 'new technologies' get a lot of feature additions and have a ready and able pool of personnel to hire for in-house development. Contemporary programming frame works are more modular and easily maintained for future changes, and more resilient to security breaks by virtue of an engaged and diverse open source development platform, whereas proprietary technologies, such as the old WG.net launcher, are insular and vulnerable due to a lack of outside oversight and dated programming techniques. If you like stability and security, these proverbs don't apply in the world of computers - they are the reasons why ILoveYou was so devastating. They are also the reason why governments lost data to leaks and hacks - for example, in the year 2015, the government of Germany was still running Windows XP, despite that being out of extended service life cycle.

You are mixing issues. KISS aproach is the best defense against vulnerabilities. And single-time ran launcher always will be less prone to network attack than 24x365 background service.

 

32 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:



But newer isn't automatically better! We need some time to test this!

The WGC isn't new, even if you may just have heard of it, or just now look at it for real for the first time. The WGC has been around for a while and had it's fair share of issues, of which numerous have been mentioned in the thread so far. Yet, a multitude of those are nowadays either user error or patched out. Few programs are perfect when they come out, but clinging to bug reports of previous versions is like blaming a new car for an issue with a prior one. In this case, newer is better. It has been tested. Maybe not by you, but by others, internally and externally. If you didn't want to test it when it was still in its infancy, if you didn't want to endure the bugs, the problems, the crashes, the freezes, the mistakes others went through, that is entirely fine - but that doesn't mean it hasn't been tested.


So, what's the summary?
You don't lose any functionalities of the old launcher, you keep the same low footprint, you retain or expand your options to control and stay informed about just what the CDN client does on your system. Additionally, you can always kill the program - just like with the old client.

I  am not against the Game Center  generally - the problem is FORCING PEOPLE TO INSTALL IT when they don't need its functionalities. 

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13 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

[...]

I'm not gonna get into a line-by-line quote war.

You can launch the WGC, get your updates manually, launch your game, kill the WGC. The current launcher already has a permanently active daemon, called WGUpdater.exe - same deal. Same behavior. The torrent seeding function is part of the old launcher, too, and has been for ages. The current launcher also only terminates the window, while keeping the WGUpdater daemon running. And as for what the WGC does: The same as the old WGUpdater.exe - only that the WGC gives you notifications about when and what is going on, what process is running and when they process is finished. You can deactivate the WGC whenever you want to, and you can cease it from auto-starting, too. Your complaints all seem to stem from the old launcher closing it's window, while the process kept running - without you knowing about it, though. In a way, that'd make the WGC more transparent/honest, too, wouldn't it?

The WGC isn't voluntary, because it replaces the dated WGUpdater - you can cease using the software if you like. Since there are no reasons to resist the change other than several emotional issues or misinformation perpetuated without proof, this isn't a rational decision, though. And yes, people need the functionalities - because this piece of software replaces the old one that is no longer developed. Since you do not own a share in WG.net, nor are in any position to make demands to the course of the development strategy, you can only decide to no longer use the software provided. Unless you have personally paid ~US$4000 monthly to Wargaming, I find it rather presumptuous to assume anyone here make such claims; and even then, you are not the employer. You can vote with your wallet, though, and refuse to buy WG.net offers, and refuse to use their product any longer. Again, not a rational decision, but your prerogative regardless.

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Guess that's the reason why I don't use any of the above outside a virtual machine then, if at all. Which isn't an option with WGC. Your definition of a power user is... cute, btw.

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20 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

The WGC does exactly what the old launcher did, and is no less convenient to use than the old client. There is zero loss of usability, zero additional steps, simply a more modern, more contemporary, better supported version of the launcher. If you want to leave the game, that is entirely fine, but it's hardly fair nor reasonable to blame this on something as innocent and rarely encountered as the CDN client. Can you name what function of the WGC is more tiresome/inconvenient?

That the new client is "better supported" is nothing but conjecture on your part. What I find tiresome and inconvenient about this is the fact that it will leave a gaping security hole on my PC. Seeing how WG has acted in the past and thoroughly demonstrated that their desire for monetary gain heavily outweighs their consideration for their userbase, I do not trust WG at all. That's why this bloatware introduction simply becomes just another worry and another bothersome element to a game I once used to enjoy.

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4 minutes ago, tenacious_torps said:

Your definition of a power user is... cute, btw.

Wait, I got a reaction image for that!

 

c5f.gif

Am I doing it right? Does that about capture your amusement?

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1 minute ago, Ced23Ric said:

The current launcher already has a permanently active daemon, called WGUpdater.exe - same deal. Same behavior.

 

By now I get the feeling that you are confusing something. There is no such deamon running on my system. There isn't even an executable with that name.

 

Could it be that you already have the WGC installed, as it already is the default download for quite some time, and that you never knew the old launcher? You are a rather new player after all.

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1 minute ago, Ced23Ric said:

I'm not gonna get into a line-by-line quote war.

I like to reply this way, because it actually proves that I read with understanding what you wrote...

1 minute ago, Ced23Ric said:



You can launch the WGC, get your updates manually, launch your game, kill the WGC. The current launcher already has a permanently active daemon, called WGUpdater.exe - same deal. Same behavior. The torrent seeding function is part of the old launcher, too, and has been for ages. The current launcher also only terminates the window, while keeping the WGUpdater daemon running. And as for what the WGC does: The same as the old WGUpdater.exe - only that the WGC gives you notifications about when and what is going on, what process is running and when they process is finished. You can deactivate the WGC whenever you want to, and you can cease it from auto-starting, too. Your complaints all seem to stem from the old launcher closing it's window, while the process kept running - without you knowing about it, though. I na way, that'd make the WGC more transparent/honest, too, wouldn't it?

Maybe I missed the thing, but I think WGUpdater part is optional, and not needed at all to download the game. I for sure have any automatic updates turned off, and I download only when I decide to (which is usually not immediately...).  And your statement about "running WGC, updating and killing WGC" is quite funny, because it puts all the work on ME, while it is the software which should do his job, and not demand me to find & kill it afterwards.

1 minute ago, Ced23Ric said:

The WGC isn't voluntary, because it replaces the dated WGUpdater - you can cease using the software if you like.

I don't use it (at least not in auto mode), and I don't think any WGUpdater runs 24x7 on my box. If it runs, I am already angry.

1 minute ago, Ced23Ric said:

Since there are no reasons to resist the change other than several emotional issues or misinformation perpetuated without proof, this isn't a rational decision, though.

There is no rational argument against keeping WGC installation voluntary, apart from some developer time and possible resources savings on WG side.

There are plenty of rational arguments outlined above by the users, and it is the users who should have the decisive vote here. The WG cost is not high enough to force another bloatware. 

 

1 minute ago, Ced23Ric said:

And yes, people need the functionalities - because this piece of software replaces the old one that is no longer developed.

So let it be developed. I don't like that inevitability which you try to assume.

1 minute ago, Ced23Ric said:

Since you do not own a share in WG.net, nor are in any position to make demands to the course of the development strategy, you can only decide to no longer use the software provided. Unless you have personally paid ~US$4000 monthly to Wargaming, I find it rather presumptuous to assume anyone here make such claims; and even then, you are not the employer. You can vote with your wallet, though, and refuse to buy WG.net offers, and refuse to use their product any longer. Again, not a rational decision, but your prerogative regardless.

I don't need to be a shareholder to have a vote here and I expect my "prerogatives" listened. I already paid WG more than for any other game in my life, much more than any single title in the market costs. I really don't think they would want to lose many paying players because they might save some network or development costs. 

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20 hours ago, EdiJo said:

This is rational behaviour - in my workplace we often mention a British Professor, Noble Prize winner btw, who was saying: 

 

"If it works - don't touch it!"

While I do like to use this quote myself in my professional life, it's often for satirical purposes.

 

The thing is... you may in many cases want to start fiddling around with something before it stops working. This is true both in mechanics (state monitoring and preventive maintenance is one of those areas which is becoming more and more important in many aspects of mechanical engineering) and in the software world. Sometimes, just because something works doesn't mean it's not impractical, vulnerable or just difficult to keep running.

 

As someone who occasionally needs to use old software that requires components no longer properly supported (e.g. old versions of java development kit), I can tell you that this is sometimes a royal pain in the arse. Replacing something that works is some times the best option, because you know at some stage it's going to stop working, and up until then it may end up requiring more work than it's worth to keep it alive.

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14 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

I'm not gonna get into a line-by-line quote war.

You can launch the WGC, get your updates manually, launch your game, kill the WGC. The current launcher already has a permanently active daemon, called WGUpdater.exe - same deal. Same behavior. The torrent seeding function is part of the old launcher, too, and has been for ages. The current launcher also only terminates the window, while keeping the WGUpdater daemon running. And as for what the WGC does: The same as the old WGUpdater.exe - only that the WGC gives you notifications about when and what is going on, what process is running and when they process is finished. You can deactivate the WGC whenever you want to, and you can cease it from auto-starting, too. Your complaints all seem to stem from the old launcher closing it's window, while the process kept running - without you knowing about it, though. In a way, that'd make the WGC more transparent/honest, too, wouldn't it?

The WGC isn't voluntary, because it replaces the dated WGUpdater - you can cease using the software if you like. Since there are no reasons to resist the change other than several emotional issues or misinformation perpetuated without proof, this isn't a rational decision, though. And yes, people need the functionalities - because this piece of software replaces the old one that is no longer developed. Since you do not own a share in WG.net, nor are in any position to make demands to the course of the development strategy, you can only decide to no longer use the software provided. Unless you have personally paid ~US$4000 monthly to Wargaming, I find it rather presumptuous to assume anyone here make such claims; and even then, you are not the employer. You can vote with your wallet, though, and refuse to buy WG.net offers, and refuse to use their product any longer. Again, not a rational decision, but your prerogative regardless.

Totally wrong. WGupdater is an optional part of he current launcher which can be disabled any time and not be activated at all. The new bloatware will force players to launch the updater and it will run in the background until you actively kill it. That's 180 degrees change.

 

Why would I want such an useless app running in the background? To constantly check for updates which happen once a month? 

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4 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

While I do like to use this quote myself in my professional life, it's often for satirical purposes.

 

The thing is... you may in many cases want to start fiddling around with something before it stops working. This is true both in mechanics (state monitoring and preventive maintenance is one of those areas which is becoming more and more important in many aspects of mechanical engineering) and in the software world. Sometimes, just because something works doesn't mean it's not impractical, vulnerable or just difficult to keep running.

 

As someone who occasionally needs to use old software that requires components no longer properly supported (e.g. old versions of java development kit), I can tell you that this is sometimes a royal pain in the arse. Replacing something that works is some times the best option, because you know at some stage it's going to stop working, and up until then it may end up requiring more work than it's worth to keep it alive.

Of course. It depends on the things I mentioned, though: quality and isolation. And if one really needs to change the platform, nothing prevents just recreating the old functionality, right? 

I don't care what java version the software might use, what I care about is my control over what and when that software does...

 

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