Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
MrFingers

Au revoir, you old standalone launcher. The "Wargaming Game Center" will be forced upon us all in the near future

283 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[MIAU]
[MIAU]
Players
2,761 posts

Ok @MrConway You said in the comments on the news article that the new launcher has new usefull features for updates.

I have a few questions for you that will not fit into those comments. I'd like to have detailed answers instead of marketing talk. If need be drag the responsible person here to reply.

 

From a users perspective:

  • What are those supposedly usefull features, if I do not plan on letting the launcher or any associated service run in the background?
  • How are those features superior to the current update procedure, so that I would have an interested in installing the bloatware that comes with it on my system?

 

For marketing:

  • Why does every single publisher believe that their players want a dedicated "game center" just for their games, even if those players only run a single game?
  • Why do you feel it is necessary to clutter up our data storage with your bits and bytes for software we do not want or need?
  • Does the department behind this decision read the feedback you recieved in regards to the launcher?

 

As a developer:

Maintaining a single purpose updater isn't hard or time consuming, unless you want to change the update process completly. All it needs to do is check the version number of the software, download the newest one and apply it to the installation folder (replacing older files, removing files listed in the update manifest, adding new files). It isn't exactly rocket science that makes an updater work. So I'm not buying the excuse that it is a resource hog in Wargamings development. I am willing to hear a technical explanation that might support those repeated statements. Are you willing to provide it?

  • What exactly does the WGC do on my system?
    • What ports are used?
    • Can the installation directory be changed?
    • Is a service running once I install the WGC?
      • If Yes: What does that service do?
      • If Yes: Will I have to close the service manually after each launch of the WGC?
    • What data is the WGC transfering exactly and how is it anonymized?
  • When will a function to actually close the WGC instead of minimizing it to the tray be implemented? (Users are used to the "X" in the upper right corner means a program stops running. Almost every other software does that. Why does the WGC has to be an exception?)
  • Is the ability for an automatic closing of the WGC after the update process is finished planned?
  • What browser is used in the WGC web application?
    • How often are security features / updates, provided by the creator, implemented into that browser?

 

If I get answers to those questions, depending on the answers, there is a very slim chance I might use it.

  • Cool 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HOO]
Players
1,225 posts
2,561 battles
36 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

ok then, I think that is my mistake because I've tried to find the auto update options but failed.

To be honest, I guess I didn't looked for it hard enough.

 

About the ram issue, I do not know what happens on my or your computer but I know what I experience.

I have 12gb of ram, and If I let the client update arena or wot in the background while I am playing wows (on ultra settings)

The game starts to stutter after 5 mins roughly, and If I do not stop it, it completely freezes my computer after a while.

I've managed to run task manager (waiting 2 - 3 mins after clicking for it) and I've seen the client using 8gb of ram at that time..

so that may be is a problem with my gig and setup I am not sure..

I must admit, WoT and Arena patches seem to have a heavier impact on my modest 8Gb rig.

 

You do know that you can pause those updates, from the center to, under the 'Queue of WarGaming.net game center processes' tab. You can play WoWS without issue and then restart those updates when your PC is free.

 

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CU]
Players
313 posts
3,474 battles
3 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

 

  • What ports are used?
  • Can the installation directory be changed?
  • Is a service running once I install the WGC?
    • If Yes: What does that service do?
    • If Yes: Will I have to close the service manually after each launch of the WGC?
  • What data is the WGC transfering exactly and how is it anonymized?
  • When will a function to actually close the WGC instead of minimizing it to the tray be implemented? (Users are used to the "X" in the upper right corner means a program stops running. Almost every other software does that. Why does the WGC has to be an exception?)
  • Is the ability for an automatic closing of the WGC after completing update process is finished planned?

 

If I get answers to those questions, depending on the answers, there is a very slim chance I might use it.

I can't answer most of your questions due to not being a WG employee, but

 

  • port is 6881, however you can manually set this.
  • It did appear that the installation directory could be changed, although I didn't try this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
4,046 posts
8,699 battles
2 minutes ago, Malfuss said:
  • It did appear that the installation directory could be changed, although I didn't try this.

 

According to a thread on reddit, there's currently a buggy WGC out there that doesn't allow for the installation directory to be changed. Afaik: Flagged as a bug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HOO]
Players
1,225 posts
2,561 battles
5 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

Ok @MrConway You said in the comments on the news article that the new launcher has new usefull features for updates.

I have a few questions for you that will not fit into those comments. I'd like to have detailed answers instead of marketing talk. If need be drag the responsible person here to reply.

 

From a users perspective:

  • What are those supposedly usefull features, if I do not plan on letting the launcher or any associated service run in the background?
  • How are those features superior to the current update procedure, so that I would have an interested in installing the bloatware that comes with it on my system?

 

For marketing:

  • Why does every single publisher believe that their players want a dedicated "game center" just for their games, even if those players only run a single game?
  • Why do you feel it is necessary to clutter up our data storage with your bits and bytes for software we do not want or need?
  • Does the department behind this decision read the feedback you recieved in regards to the launcher?

 

As a developer:

Maintaining a single purpose updater isn't hard or time consuming, unless you want to change the update process completly. All it needs to do is check the version number of the software, download the newest one and apply it to the installation folder (replacing older files, removing files listed in the update manifest, adding new files). It isn't exactly rocket science that makes an updater work. So I'm not buying the excuse that it is a resource hog in Wargamings development. I am willing to hear a technical explanation that might support those repeated statements. Are you willing to provide it?

  • What exactly does the WGC do on my system?
    • What ports are used?
    • Can the installation directory be changed?
    • Is a service running once I install the WGC?
      • If Yes: What does that service do?
      • If Yes: Will I have to close the service manually after each launch of the WGC?
    • What data is the WGC transfering exactly and how is it anonymized?
  • When will a function to actually close the WGC instead of minimizing it to the tray be implemented? (Users are used to the "X" in the upper right corner means a program stops running. Almost every other software does that. Why does the WGC has to be an exception?)
  • Is the ability for an automatic closing of the WGC after completing update process is finished planned?
  • What browser is used in the WGC web application?
    • How often are security features / updates, provided by the creator, implemented into that browser?

 

If I get answers to those questions, depending on the answers, there is a very slim chance I might use it.

It's called consolidation. If you have a launcher / updater that covers all your products, you only have one application to maintain, and you enforce common working practices and procedures, under your Service Delivery Umbrella. In short it's cheaper and cost effective, as its easier (less effort) to deliver patches. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MIAU]
[MIAU]
Players
2,761 posts
Just now, Malfuss said:

I can't answer most of your questions due to not being a WG employee, but

 

  • port is 6881, however you can manually set this.
  • It did appear that the installation directory could be changed, although I didn't try this.

 

Thanks for the first part. In regards to the second one I have seen various comments that suggest otherwise. There is even a youtube video where you can see that no such option is offered.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DAVY]
[DAVY]
Moderator
1,446 posts
5,924 battles
4 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

I must admit, WoT and Arena patches seem to have a heavier impact on my modest 8Gb rig.

 

You do know that you can pause those updates, from the center to, under the 'Queue of WarGaming.net game center processes' tab. You can play WoWS without issue and then restart those updates when your PC is free.

 

 

as I confessed earlier,

whenever I pause them, they tend to restart after for a given time :)

and I was unable to spot the auto update options as given how a lazy frick I am :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,586 posts
8,338 battles
25 minutes ago, biker_618 said:

Not that, it is that someone take liberty to go beyond just a suggestion how should i use my PC without being asked for.

That doesn't even make sense.

Someone shouldn't make you use their application to run their game?!

 

8 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Ehhhhhh what's that for an argument? I mean, quitting the game over the WGC might be over the top for you or me, but for others it is not. That has nothing to do with how 'much' someone wanted to play the game.

 

You don't have to accept everything that the devs offer and STILL can be a vivid fan of the game.

It wasn't supposed to be an argument. It was an observation and I guess an assumption.

If someone stops playing a game because they had to switch launchers, then yes, I'm going to keep assuming they only barely wanted to play the game.

It's one thing to not agree with what devs do and actually saying you will quit over it. There's a lot I don't agree with about what WG does, but as long as that's not completely ruining the fun I'm having playing their game, I'm going to keep playing. Is that abnormal to you?

 

12 minutes ago, tenacious_torps said:

200mb for what is essentially a desktop-link and a rather simple app that checks for new updates. Alright, there's also a minimal torrent client in it, but that's already the start of the reasons to become grumpy with WG yet again. They charge hefty premiums for their premium offers, why can't they afford to run a decent download server? Anyway, all of the above is easily done with 20mb and that's being very generous about it. What do the other 180mb do then?

The same as every other launcher. It's a mini-browser to serve as a news portal. Some launchers use it to sell titles, all of them use it to serve news and push information.

Why do you even care about 200MB in the first place?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CU]
Players
313 posts
3,474 battles
7 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

 

Thanks for the first part. In regards to the second one I have seen various comments that suggest otherwise. There is even a youtube video where you can see that no such option is offered.

 

I've just uninstalled and reinstalled to check on your second point, the current update definitely allows you to change installation directory. I changed from C: to D:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[MIAU]
[MIAU]
Players
2,761 posts
Just now, Nechrom said:

The same as every other launcher. It's a mini-browser to serve as a news portal. Some launchers use it to sell titles, all of them use it to serve news and push information.

Why do you even care about 200MB in the first place?

 

Because no one really asked for it, except upper management in their search for a better marketing tool, directly on the consumers PC. They offer their games with it but without those these launchers would be considered adware. Most people don't like adware. Just because the adware has a different dress, I still don't need to like it.

 

This is my system space they are invading with that crap. So they better deliver a very good reason for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
4,046 posts
8,699 battles
3 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

Is that abnormal to you?

 

Not at all! 

 

 

The thing is: Different people value different things and thus decide onto different things based on these values. To those players among us that talk about quitting the game: They apparently value their systems integrity higher than playing Warships. So while they may have tons of fun and like the game very much, they can't accept that something else threatens their systems integrity. Basically: Control is taken away from these players. 

 

At least as long as Egoleter doesn't get a sufficient answer from @MrConway !

 

Other players in this thread (like me) for example, value their systems integrity less than playing Warships (not by much, but I tried the WGC for WoWP 2.0 and it was an okey experience).

 

 

Neither side is 'wrong' here. It's just two (or more) different set of values.

 

 

And then saying: Hey your set of values is completely over the top, just take my values instead is .... questionable.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ST-EU]
Supertest Coordinator
225 posts
9,759 battles

It takes only a few moments to move it from the C:\ProgramData\Wargaming.net\GamesCenter to wherever you want it.

 

See my previous post on how to do it. It's not hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HOO]
Players
1,225 posts
2,561 battles
26 minutes ago, tenacious_torps said:

200mb for what is essentially a desktop-link and a rather simple app that checks for new updates. Alright, there's also a minimal torrent client in it, but that's already the start of the reasons to become grumpy with WG yet again. They charge hefty premiums for their premium offers, why can't they afford to run a decent download server? Anyway, all of the above is easily done with 20mb and that's being very generous about it. What do the other 180mb do then?

So do you complain to Steam and Twitch too?

 

And as for hefty premium offers, the game is free nobody makes you spend cash to play WoWS, that is something you chose to do. Alot of the cash we give them goes right back into the game as continued development, and in maintaining the servers that we play on for absolutely no cash. If we had to pay a monthly subscription fee I could understand and support what you are saying.

 

There are some free games/ etc on steam, but in the most part you have to pay cash to play the games on there

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HF_30]
Players
1,373 posts
3 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

The same as every other launcher. It's a mini-browser to serve as a news portal. Some launchers use it to sell titles, all of them use it to serve news and push information.

Why do you even care about 200MB in the first place?

Because 90% of that 200MB is used to push stuff on my system that I do not want there, because it's a glaringly obvious security issue. Do you really trust WG to maintain a browser? We're talking about a company, that has obviously very fishy ethics - see torture boat debate for one of the more glaringly obvious examples - and is apparently lacking the competence to even fix something as comparatively simple as the damn GUI. Why on earth would you allow such a company to run anything as a background service on your system?

 

Of course, there's always the possibility to keep a separate OS installation just for WG products, but even that isn't quite foolproof in the day and age of microcode vulnerabilities baked right into the silicon of your CPU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
[SCRUB]
Beta Tester
1,491 posts
8,043 battles

Oh boy so they hold true to their threat and it's happening. :cap_old:

 

Alle 8/3/2018 alle 13:39, Fat_Maniac ha scritto:

It's called consolidation. If you have a launcher / updater that covers all your products, you only have one application to maintain, and you enforce common working practices and procedures, under your Service Delivery Umbrella. In short it's cheaper and cost effective, as its easier (less effort) to deliver patches. 

And Egoleter explained why this*edited* or at least very marginable. Yes it may save some time to maintain 1 laucher for every server instead of 3 for every server but the difference seems like one guy doing their work for half an hour maximum. This is a pro point exclusively for WGs convenience and not for the players. I believe I paid them enough to expect that much of extra effort to secure a secound way of starting and patching the game.

 

The only pro point I see for the players is the option to limit ressource usage when updating which I am also interested in because that is the only (minor) gripe I have for the standart laucher. (I basicaly paralizes my PC for the few minutes it takes to update making me unable to use anything relying on internet connection)

If I can see imrovement there I might be seduced to use it.

 

Though I am very wary of the fact they have to actualy bribe us (and are not even telling what that bribe to use the WGC is). Let's say It is not emitting a trustworthy aura.

Edited by NickMustaine
Inappropriate remarks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HF_30]
Players
1,373 posts
3 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

So do you complain to Steam and Twitch too?

 

And as for hefty premium offers, the game is free nobody makes you spend cash to play WoWS, that is something you chose to do. Alot of the cash we give them goes right back into the game as continued development, and in maintaining the servers that we play on for absolutely no cash. If we had to pay a monthly subscription fee I could understand and support what you are saying.

 

There are some free games/ etc on steam, but in the most part you have to pay cash to play the games on there

I don't allow steam to run in the background, it's only used to validate, then straight to offline mode and I wasn't even aware twitch comes with any app, all I ever use is the site through the browser of my choice. Which, in this case runs in a virtual machine and in full ublock and noscript config. Does that answer your question? I answered only out of politeness, despite the glaringly obvious what-about-ism.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HOO]
Players
1,225 posts
2,561 battles
1 minute ago, Miessa3 said:

Oh boy so they hold true to their threat and it's happening. :cap_old:

 

And Egoleter explained why this is BS or at least very marginable. Yes it may save some time to maintain 3 lauchers for every server instead of 1 for every server but the difference seems like one guy doing their work for half an hour maximum. This is a pro point exclusively for WGs convenience and not for the players. I believe I paid them enough to expect that much of extra effort to secure a secound way of starting and patching the game.

 

The only pro point I see for the players is the option to limit ressource usage when updating which I am also interested in because that is the only (minor) gripe I have for the standart laucher. (I basicaly paralizes my PC for the few minutes it takes to update making me unable to use anything relying on internet connection)

If I can see imrovement there I might be seduced to use it.

 

Though I am very wary of the fact they have to actualy bribe us (and are not even telling what that bribe to use the WGC is). Let's say It is not emitting a trustworthy aura.

And if you planned in the future as an organisation, say to consolidate your servers, into say 1 world wide cluster, but to have regional specific marketing, how would you do it?

 

This would be a logical step along that road. If you needed or wanted to do it, having a common Game Center makes that task much much easier.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HF_30]
Players
1,373 posts
1 minute ago, Fat_Maniac said:

And if you planned in the future as an organisation, say to consolidate your servers, into say 1 world wide cluster, but to have regional specific marketing, how would you do it?

 

This would be a logical step along that road. If you needed or wanted to do it, having a common Game Center makes that task much much easier.

 

Only if you can get your user to eat shite. Which may turn out rather more difficult than the minor inconvenience of exchanging a few links and graphics in an otherwise identical application.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HOO]
Players
1,225 posts
2,561 battles
Alle 8/3/2018 alle 13:58, tenacious_torps ha scritto:

I don't allow steam to run in the background, it's only used to validate, then straight to offline mode and I wasn't even aware twitch comes with any app, all I ever use is the site through the browser of my choice. Which, in this case runs in a virtual machine and in full ublock and noscript config. Does that answer your question? I answered only out of politeness, despite the glaringly obvious what-about-ism.

The thing is, most people simply don't for whatever reason, do what you do. That in no way means what you do is wrong, It fact it's probably a very secure way of dealing with the outside world, and yes everyone is free to do as they wish.

 

The problem is WG are catering for the masses.

 

Alle 8/3/2018 alle 13:55, Miessa3 ha scritto:

Though I am very wary of the fact they have to actualy bribe us (and are not even telling what that bribe to use the WGC is). Let's say It is not emitting a trustworthy aura.

On this we can most definitely agree. I'm afraid WG's reputation precedes them yet again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
472 posts
1,724 battles

So, asking as someone who does not have as good a working knowledge of what's going on 'under the bonnet' of my PC as I would like to. If I:

– Click the 'no upload' option

– Manually (sigh) stop WGC from running in the background

does that resolve the concerns that there might be about system integrity? Or have I (probably) missed something about the size of a chuffing house?

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,586 posts
8,338 battles
5 minutes ago, 10ThousandThings said:

So, asking as someone who does not have as good a working knowledge of what's going on 'under the bonnet' of my PC as I would like to. If I:

– Click the 'no upload' option

– Manually (sigh) stop WGC from running in the background

does that resolve the concerns that there might be about system integrity? Or have I (probably) missed something about the size of a chuffing house?

Concern is by definition subjective, so only you can answer that question.

If you are asking about actual legitimate risks, then I'm afraid it would be hard to get those answers.

Will it mine bitcoin using your computer? Probably not.

Will it send your credit card information to criminals? Probably not.

Will it destroy your master boot record? Probably not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[ST-EU]
Supertest Coordinator
225 posts
9,759 battles

If you don't want it to auto-start, remove the check from the 'Launch Game Center when you start your computer'. It doesn't actually start when you start your computer, but only when you login. It's not a service but an executable you can find in your 'Startup' tab in Task Manager. (Ctrl-Alt-Del > Task Manager > Startup on Windows 10).

 

I was pleasantly surprised it wasn't build as a resident service.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
472 posts
1,724 battles
22 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

Concern is by definition subjective, so only you can answer that question.

If you are asking about actual legitimate risks, then I'm afraid it would be hard to get those answers.

Will it mine bitcoin using your computer? Probably not.

Will it send your credit card information to criminals? Probably not.

Will it destroy your master boot record? Probably not.

Good to know! :Smile_great::Smile-_tongue:

I guess I was trying to establish whether the concerns people are expressing boil down to 1) the possibility of your PC being used as a seeder to torrent game data (which, if I've understood correctly, can be resolved with the 'no upload' option) 2) WGC using inappropriately high amounts of RAM and only being minimised when you 'close' it (which can be resolved by stopping it manually, as pointlessly cumbersome as this is), or whether there was something else of that order that I'd missed.

 

I can live with it being unnecessary (as in, WOWS is the only WG title I play, and I'm not interested in any of the others) and with it pushing advertising (which can just be ignored, and is significantly less advertising than I see just on my walk into work every day), even though neither is ideal.

1 hour ago, Egoleter said:
  • When will a function to actually close the WGC instead of minimizing it to the tray be implemented? (Users are used to the "X" in the upper right corner means a program stops running. Almost every other software does that. Why does the WGC has to be an exception?)
  • Is the ability for an automatic closing of the WGC after the update process is finished planned?
  • What browser is used in the WGC web application?
    • How often are security features / updates, provided by the creator, implemented into that browser?

It would certainly be nice to have some answers to these questions, though. +1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×