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Au revoir, you old standalone launcher. The "Wargaming Game Center" will be forced upon us all in the near future

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Have to be honest, I'm probably one of the few guys here who have never experienced any problems with the game center?

I mean for me it's just switching from one launcher to another and I have more than enough harddrive space to spare.

 

I can understand others taking issues with this however.

 

Same here. The only issue I have with it is that it doesn't close when you click the 'close window' button but minimises itself to the system tray. Steam pulls the same trick but it's simple enough to right-click on the system tray icon and close it from there. I don't mind using a launcher, I draw the line at things running when I'm not using them.

 

And my RNG has been fantastic since installing it.* :Smile_great:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* That's a joke, my RNG hasn't changed at all. Thought I'd better clarify because there always seems to be one person who doesn't think it's a joke. :Smile_unsure:

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So, another game goes this way...

 

I so want that unneeded bloatware that so many players obviously love that game companies end up forcing it on everybody. :Smile_sceptic:

Bloody don't fix what ain't broken.

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It's always the same, in every game, every piece of programming: People hate change.

 

People hated Microsoft Office 2010, people hated Windows XP's Luna shell, people hated the changes to Adobe's Creative Suite, people hated when [some F2P game] changed their launcher, too. People hat change and they will [edited] and moan and complain and cuss and threaten and nothing, absolutely nothing will stop progress. Those people are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the userbase. Less than 10% of players read the forums, out of which less than 10% write in it, out of which less than 10% write regularly, out of which less than 10% write to complain about the new launcher, but because there's so few people even posting, it all seems like a big echo chamber, or as if polls matter - even 1000 votes on a poll, which you won't get, are meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

And the new launcher does what the old one does: Sit in the background, keeps your games up to date, serves as a unified, single point of contact content-delivery endnode. Like Steam, UPlay, Origin, GoG Galaxy, etc. pp. - you can all stop trying your hardest to sound like grumpy old men on rocking chairs waving their canes on the porch. The current iteration of the WGC works well, works quickly, works quietly, and has little to no additional load on your system, but allows WG.net to free up developer time to focus on other parts of their software landscape, while only a dedicated team remains to update the WGC for all departments. It's economically sound, it's user-friendly, and it's - like many other software provider's solutions - the right way forward.

But people hate change, and so they will pull the thinnest bullcrap out of their butts to validate their fears. I heard someone complain that this software would drive up his electricity bill. Spyware, "better be safe than sorry", because WG.net doesn't have so much data about you anyway and you consented to all of it, and if the major scanners come up clean do you really think that you, someone that can barely operate these magical typewriters, has a better grasp about what's spyware? Kneejerk reactions, half-wisdoms and hollow threats.

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2 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

It's always the same, in every game, every piece of programming: People hate change.

 

People hated Microsoft Office 2010, people hated Windows XP's Luna shell, people hated the changes to Adobe's Creative Suite, people hated when [some F2P game] changed their launcher, too. People hat change and they will [edited] and moan and complain and cuss and threaten and nothing, absolutely nothing will stop progress. Those people are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the userbase. Less than 10% of players read the forums, out of which less than 10% write in it, out of which less than 10% write regularly, out of which less than 10% write to complain about the new launcher, but because there's so few people even posting, it all seems like a big echo chamber, or as if polls matter - even 1000 votes on a poll, which you won't get, are meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

And the new launcher does what the old one does: Sit in the background, keeps your games up to date, serves as a unified, single point of contact content-delivery endnode. Like Steam, UPlay, Origin, GoG Galaxy, etc. pp. - you can all stop trying your hardest to sound like grumpy old men on rocking chairs waving their canes on the porch. The current iteration of the WGC works well, works quickly, works quietly, and has little to no additional load on your system, but allows WG.net to free up developer time to focus on other parts of their software landscape, while only a dedicated team remains to update the WGC for all departments. It's economically sound, it's user-friendly, and it's - like many other software provider's solutions - the right way forward.

But people hate change, and so they will pull the thinnest bullcrap out of their butts to validate their fears. I heard someone complain that this software would drive up his electricity bill. Spyware, "better be safe than sorry", because WG.net doesn't have so much data about you anyway and you consented to all of it, and if the major scanners come up clean do you really think that you, someone that can barely operate these magical typewriters, has a better grasp about what's spyware? Kneejerk reactions, half-wisdoms and hollow threats.

 

Coming from someone with 1 forum post and 902 battles... How much rubel did they pay you?

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1 minute ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

Coming from someone with 1 forum post and 902 battles... How much rubel did they pay you?

People who are not regulars are allowed to have opinions and thoughts too, you know.

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1 minute ago, Clefspeare13 said:

People who are not regulars are allowed to have opinions and thoughts too, you know.

 

I know but this is to obvious. And yes, I know that he is not payed by WG because that means they would give something for free^^

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Just now, Clefspeare13 said:

People who are not regulars are allowed to have opinions and thoughts too, you know.

Yes, they are.

At the same time those users shouldn't think that their opinion is somehow superior to those they disagree with. The user replied to by Mandalorianer certainly leaves that impression.

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6 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

Coming from someone with 1 forum post and 902 battles... How much rubel did they pay you?

 

I get a monthly payment of 500€ - not Rubel, too much hassle to convert and not as reliable on the open market - for these forum posts. I forgot which account I was on, the other ten with sub 1000 battles I have are going to respong to this shortly, though. Additionally, this is pretty much the core issue of entitlement and false claim to superiority: Age isn't an achievement, and age doesn't make right. Your 638 posts are meaningless, little splashes in the sea. That's less than a week's worth of activity for a dedicated forum warrior. Please.

Disregard the messenger all you like bud, but the message still stands unassailed. Discrediting the person rather than the content is "Weak debate tactics 101", and reminiscent of politicians' mud slinging. Come at me with something substantial, with arguments, and none of this weak ad hominem stuff.

 

2 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

Yes, they are.

At the same time those users shouldn't think that their opinion is somehow superior to those they disagree with. The user replied to by Mandalorianer certainly leaves that impression.

There is a difference between the validity of an opinion and a person. Everyone has equal worth as a person, but not every opinion is equally valid.

The opinion, for example, that WGC is spyware is inherently invalid, and the defense "better be safe than sorry" is a twisted variation of cognitive dissonance paired with an effort to save face by appealing to compassion and empathy. WGC isn't spyware as per current industry-accepted heuristics, and the opinion of someone with less technical understanding without facts backing it up is less valid when facing the statements of the accepted metrics of Malware Bytes etc. 

So you and I are the same in personal worth, on an ethical level, but if I were to claim the sun is cold, and you were to claim it's hot, then my opinion is less valid than yours, and your opinion is superior to mine by common knowledge and observable facts. This does not change our value as a person, but it puts the validity of our opinions in perspective/relation to one another. In other words, you'd be right in my example, and I'd be wrong. There is no sacrosanct protection for the word or content of an opinion. Opinions can be both wrong, invalid, less valid and still be held onto with vigor and determination. For example, the opinion that one opinion is as valid as any other. That'd opinion would be an invalid opinion. You can have that conviction, but that doesn't make it any more valid. At that point, it is a challenge to your critical thinking and character whether you are willing to change your opinion in the light of new facts or accept the superiority of experience of third parties, or if you stick with it on principle. The latter makes you willfully ignorant.

Edited by Ced23Ric
Avoiding a doublepost.
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11 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

It's always the same, in every game, every piece of programming: People hate change.

 

People hated Microsoft Office 2010, people hated Windows XP's Luna shell, people hated the changes to Adobe's Creative Suite, people hated when [some F2P game] changed their launcher, too. People hat change and they will [edited] and moan and complain and cuss and threaten and nothing, absolutely nothing will stop progress. Those people are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the userbase. Less than 10% of players read the forums, out of which less than 10% write in it, out of which less than 10% write regularly, out of which less than 10% write to complain about the new launcher, but because there's so few people even posting, it all seems like a big echo chamber, or as if polls matter - even 1000 votes on a poll, which you won't get, are meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

And the new launcher does what the old one does: Sit in the background, keeps your games up to date, serves as a unified, single point of contact content-delivery endnode. Like Steam, UPlay, Origin, GoG Galaxy, etc. pp. - you can all stop trying your hardest to sound like grumpy old men on rocking chairs waving their canes on the porch. The current iteration of the WGC works well, works quickly, works quietly, and has little to no additional load on your system, but allows WG.net to free up developer time to focus on other parts of their software landscape, while only a dedicated team remains to update the WGC for all departments. It's economically sound, it's user-friendly, and it's - like many other software provider's solutions - the right way forward.

But people hate change, and so they will pull the thinnest bullcrap out of their butts to validate their fears. I heard someone complain that this software would drive up his electricity bill. Spyware, "better be safe than sorry", because WG.net doesn't have so much data about you anyway and you consented to all of it, and if the major scanners come up clean do you really think that you, someone that can barely operate these magical typewriters, has a better grasp about what's spyware? Kneejerk reactions, half-wisdoms and hollow threats.

 

3 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

 

I get a monthly payment of 500€ - not Rubel, too much hassle to convert and not as reliable on the open market - for these forum posts. I forgot which account I was on, the other ten with sub 1000 battles I have are going to respong to this shortly, though. Additionally, this is pretty much the core issue of entitlement and false claim to superiority: Age isn't an achievement, and age doesn't make right. Your 638 posts are meaningless, little splashes in the sea. That's less than a week's worth of activity for a dedicated forum warrior. Please.

Disregard the messenger all you like bud, but the message still stands unassailed. Discrediting the person rather than the content is "Weak debate tactics 101", and reminiscent of politicians' mud slinging. Come at me with something substantial, with arguments, and none of this weak ad hominem stuff.

 

To sum up your points:

Screen_Shot_2017-05-03_at_12.14.21_PM.jp

 

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I have NA, RU, SEA & EU WoT accounts, NA, RU & EU WoWS, EU WoWP, and Total War Arena.

 

 

These do all load and update correctly through the latest version of the WG Game Centre. No problems there,...

 

 

BUT!

 

 

The new "One Login to Play Them All" feature doesn't work, and has made logging on to clients utterly tedious. Briefly, until "one login etc" was added, i could just pick a game/region option from the tabs and go straight to that client. The clients "remembered" each set of log-in details, and so I'd go straight into the game. This made switching games or regions quite quick (e.g. if I get three stupid roflstomp losses straight away when i play WoWS EU, I just leave and go and play on NA or RU in order to get a better roll of the dice. Cough!).

 

Now what happens is that the WG Game Centre makes you re-log on to each game every single time - it apparently cannot "remember" account details. Moreover, if you play Arena, which does not have regions, you are logged in under the WG regional account that you last used. What this means is that even if you have all your romans/ gold/ premium/ ground units on an EU account, you will end up playing on an empty new RU or NA Arena account if you last visited one of those WoT/WoWS regions - it'll log you on using those credentials.

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20 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

To sum up your points:

The summary would be: People hate change and will make up any number of excuses to validate that instinctual hatred, including fabricate lies to themselves and others, for no other reason than "I don't wanna!".

Just get the WGC and get over with it. The sooner you make the change, the longer you can get accustomed to it, so you won't struggle when the launcher is turned off. I highly doubt that someone with plenty Tier X ships, doubloons, premium ships and more is gonna pull through on "Oh no, they changed the little doohickey I click on to play, time to throw my US$ 500++ investment out of the window!". That's an impotent threat directed at no one who cares. It's just negativity and bitter-vet syndrome. Happens in every F2P game, happens with every piece of software, a tale as old as Pacman 2.


Also: "Maybe if I downvote these posts, he'll stop making them. It works on reddit! :cap_wander:"
tgVbEhm.png

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19 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

 

To sum up your points:

Screen_Shot_2017-05-03_at_12.14.21_PM.jp

 

 

2 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

The summary would be: People hate change and will make up any number of excuses to validate that instinctual hatred, including fabricate lies to themselves and others, for no other reason than "I don't wanna!".

 

2541934_0.jpg

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Looks like WG was anticipating *edited* and sub is already trying to mitigate.

Edited by NickMustaine
Inappropriate remarks

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26 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

It's always the same, in every game, every piece of programming: People hate change.

 

People hated Microsoft Office 2010, people hated Windows XP's Luna shell, people hated the changes to Adobe's Creative Suite, people hated when [some F2P game] changed their launcher, too. People hat change and they will [edited] and moan and complain and cuss and threaten and nothing, absolutely nothing will stop progress. Those people are a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the userbase. Less than 10% of players read the forums, out of which less than 10% write in it, out of which less than 10% write regularly, out of which less than 10% write to complain about the new launcher, but because there's so few people even posting, it all seems like a big echo chamber, or as if polls matter - even 1000 votes on a poll, which you won't get, are meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

And the new launcher does what the old one does: Sit in the background, keeps your games up to date, serves as a unified, single point of contact content-delivery endnode. Like Steam, UPlay, Origin, GoG Galaxy, etc. pp. - you can all stop trying your hardest to sound like grumpy old men on rocking chairs waving their canes on the porch. The current iteration of the WGC works well, works quickly, works quietly, and has little to no additional load on your system, but allows WG.net to free up developer time to focus on other parts of their software landscape, while only a dedicated team remains to update the WGC for all departments. It's economically sound, it's user-friendly, and it's - like many other software provider's solutions - the right way forward.

But people hate change, and so they will pull the thinnest bullcrap out of their butts to validate their fears. I heard someone complain that this software would drive up his electricity bill. Spyware, "better be safe than sorry", because WG.net doesn't have so much data about you anyway and you consented to all of it, and if the major scanners come up clean do you really think that you, someone that can barely operate these magical typewriters, has a better grasp about what's spyware? Kneejerk reactions, half-wisdoms and hollow threats.

I think you nailed my feelings perfectly. I don't need my processor working any harder! It's too hot here already! Vote no changes ever! :Smile-angry:

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38 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

and none of this weak ad hominem stuff.

 

Your argument is: "It's new and therefore good."

You do not care why someone is against it. You are just here to tell us that we are somehow wrong, yet you do not actually support it.

 

As for some of your examples:

I know a lot of office workers who still dislike the ribbon system introduced with office '10. They mostly consider it a waste of screen space with some functions no longer being as accessable as they were before, leading to more time needed to complete their work.

 

All those launchers on your system. I have none of them. It started with Steam. The first step to make sure that players no longer own their games. The list of games no longer playable because their servers have been shut down is increasing daily. All the while my old titles keep on running and running and running and running...

Then the various publishers decided that they no longer want to pay royalties to Valve and they introduced their own launchers. GoG games can run without the GoG launcher. That one is actually completly voluntary. The others? They are not. You need them if you want to play those games. It will just be a matter of time until the smaller publishers will also start their version of a launcher. When will you have enough? Will it be ten different launchers? 20? 50? That's the future we are moving towards. A waste of ressources in a climate that is already heating up, with computers being a prime source for that development.

One launcher on one computer is not much of a problem. 10 launchers on millions of computers is a massive waste of energy every single moment of the day. It is not user friendly and it is not ecologically friendly. All those companies with their launchers are only interested in quick money. They have no ecological interest and they do not care about the needs of their users.

They offer you nice add-on features and some comfort functionality to blind you towards those consequences. It is a trap and you are falling for it under the pretense that it is "progress". It would be totally possible to add the same add-ons and comfort without a bloatware launcher for every single publisher or game. Some of the old games already had some of those long before Steam.

 

18 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

The summary would be: People hate change and will make up any number of excuses to validate that instinctual hatred, including fabricate lies to themselves and others, for no other reason than "I don't wanna!".

Coming from someone who is telling us to stop ad-hominems. You might want to take a long and deep look into the mirror before replying again.

 

38 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

So you and I are the same in personal worth, on an ethical level, but if I were to claim the sun is cold, and you were to claim it's hot, then my opinion is less valid than yours, and your opinion is superior to mine by common knowledge and observable facts. This does not change our value as a person, but it puts the validity of our opinions in perspective/relation to one another. In other words, you'd be right in my example, and I'd be wrong. There is no sacrosanct protection for the word or content of an opinion. Opinions can be both wrong, invalid, less valid and still be held onto with vigor and determination. For example, the opinion that one opinion is as valid as any other. That'd opinion would be an invalid opinion. You can have that conviction, but that doesn't make it any more valid. At that point, it is a challenge to your critical thinking and character whether you are willing to change your opinion in the light of new facts or accept the superiority of experience of third parties, or if you stick with it on principle. The latter makes you willfully ignorant.

You didn't bring any observable facts to the table. All you did so far is to insult us as ignorant.

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2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Have to be honest, I'm probably one of the few guys here who have never experienced any problems with the game center?

I mean for me it's just switching from one launcher to another and I have more than enough harddrive space to spare.

 

I can understand others taking issues with this however.

That would make us two, I've used WGC for some time and I have no issues with it. I know, amazing for WG standards.

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18 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

Your argument is: "It's new and therefore good."

When will you have enough? Will it be ten different launchers? 20? 50? That's the future we are moving towards. A waste of resources in a climate that is already heating up, with computers being a prime source for that development.

One launcher on one computer is not much of a problem. 10 launchers on millions of computers is a massive waste of energy every single moment of the day. It is not user friendly and it is not ecologically friendly. All those companies with their launchers are only interested in quick money. They have no ecological interest and they do not care about the needs of their users.

Straw-manning, slippery slope fallacy, tinfoil hattery.

My argument isn't new = good, but that suits your narrative. Your agenda is being against the change, supporting those who are against it, too as brothers in arms, so fishing for validation and arguments to counter counter-arguments (whooo, getting dizzy) is all too natural. My argument though was an entirely different one, outlined above: "... but allows WG.net to free up developer time to focus on other parts of their software landscape, while only a dedicated team remains to update the WGC for all departments..." The move away from individual launchers for the software catalog of WG.net is entirely reasonable. The summary net improvement for company and users (less background processes for people using more than one service, the same amount of processes for those using one service, while making sure every service has an up to date CDN client, with a dedicated developer team) are also reasonable.

You already have a launcher. The WG.net Updater manages your game, patches it, alerts you to updates, verifies your install in case of corruption and other services related to keeping the client software current and operational. Pieces of management software, client nodes to a CDN server cluster, are entirely necessary since the advent of non-media software distribution. Valve clued into that before anyone else, and pushed hard, with Half-Life 2 being the ox before the cart. The outrage back then was huge and kept gaming magazines around the world busy to print frothing readers' letters for months, and now Valve is a behemoth that sells hats on TF2 and has become what they are today. Ubisoft and EA wanted a piece of the pie. Imitation acts, and bad copies at that. What does that have to do with the WGC? Nothing at all. The WGC isn't a market place, it's a CDN client for the software catalog of one company. I doubt you'd ask for WG.net to offer their patches as monthly CD-ROM in a magazine, because that was how we got patches for games before these "only interested in quick money" and "uninterested in the needs of their users" launchers.

As for the ecological aspect: If you care about the environment, power consumption and climate change, I suggest you look elsewhere first. Demanding WG.net doesn't give their many users a current, central and dedicated CDN client to manage their software catalog isn't going to save the world. Take your bike to work, stop buying items with extensive packaging, buy your foods local, stop operating a gaming computer, turn off your AC, learn to re-use water and use less of it, etc. pp. - the moment you play a game like WoWS with load on your GPU, you are making a mockery of claiming ecological interests as your argument. No, the WGC will not increase your carbon footprint by any margin detectable, because it doesn't do anything the current system doesn't already do in that equation. Half an hour of WoWS left to idle is considerably more energy than... heh. Fifty launchers running on your idle box. There is a veiled claim to higher morals here, shrouded by ignorance, that certainly is deserving of a look in the mirror as well.

Though, I'm not sure what your point is, other than being miffed, mate.

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1 minute ago, Ced23Ric said:

Straw-manning, slippery slope fallacy, tinfoil hattery.

I still see nothing but insults. But please go on.

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I am using it since months. I dont really get the hate for the launcher. Everything is running fine, never had any problems. I also like that I can manage every instance of the game EU,NA, PTS.

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1 minute ago, Egoleter said:

I still see nothing but insults. But please go on.

I responded to your points, which you deigned to grace with this:

Vqlqx3t.png

You wanna check again whether it's "only insults", "boring" or what's going on there, mate? Because you aren't responding in turn, so we're kinda not having a discussion, it's just some debate fouls akin to pouting from you and meme pictures from the other guy. There hasn't been a single insult in my previous post, unless you are insulted by me pointing out that you are committing a few unnecessary debate fouls and then disagreeing with you.

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2 minutes ago, Ced23Ric said:

so we're kinda not having a discussion,

That is the one point where I can say that you are correct.

 

Everything else you posted is based on your opinion about the users who are against the forced switch. If you look closely your posts are the only ones I react negativly to. Everyone else who disagrees with me does so without insulting others. You are the only one who opened up with an insult and you keep repeating it. As such you are no longer worth my time.

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11 minutes ago, konean said:

I am using it since months. I dont really get the hate for the launcher. Everything is running fine, never had any problems. I also like that I can manage every instance of the game EU,NA, PTS.

I avoided using the thing early on as all the reports said it was buggy as hell.

 

However, the ability to use multiple servers with a single install would be very useful (I play WOT on both the NA and EU servers, for a start) - does anyone know how the thing works, in terms of what actually gets installed? i.e. I currently have WOWS, plus two instances of WOT; with the new thing, would that drop to one of each, or would I get one of each, *plus* WOW (say)?

 

Thanks in advance.

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If this works in the background and has a negative influence on game performance then bai bai wows.

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14 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

You are the only one who opened up with an insult and you keep repeating it. As such you are no longer worth my time.

I know this is going to be a wasted effort, but I'll try anyway: Where did I insult you, or anyone else in this thread?

Do you take offense to be called ignorant? A lack of knowledge or insight isn't a quality to be offended by, but something innate to us all. I, for one, suck pretty hard at playing DDs, and many other ships. I dipped my toe into CW matches, and boy am I bad there, too. If someone comes and asks me to leave because of how bad I am, or tells me I need to look up how X works, so I can do it better, that's not an insult - it's the plain truth. I can choose to take offense to that, though, and assume that I am not bad and it's someone else's fault or find other reasons why my matches go bad. Like, the cruisers didn't support me, the BBs didn't protect me, the CV didn't shield me from planes. I can always find fault with other things than myself, or I can accept that I am ignorant of something and look into changing that.

I responded to each of your arguments; and arguments made in this thread, with counter-arguments. You proceeded to ignore them, throw mean emoticons at my posts like we're on everyone's favorite popularity contest forum and "see only insults", rather than engage in a discussion. Other posters laid claim to veterancy and senority, rather than respond to my points made. And now I am no longer worthy of your time? I dunno, bud. I dunno if you're really all that reflecting of your own actions there.

Truth be told, I am condescending, patronizing and many other bad attributes, and they'd all be warranted to level at me. But as long as my core argument of "People hate change [and will make up wild stories to justify that primal fear]." stands unchallenged, I might be an a-hole (does that get censored?), but at least I have some ground to stand on. Maybe I am just jaded after all these years in IT, mind you. One too many update projects and one too many users being too obtuse, I suppose. You're probably an alright guy, but when we're talking about mirrors, we ain't givin' each other much of a run for the money, mate. You might be on the other side of the fence here, but you're not all rainbow and sparkles yourself. But then again, forums breed that sentiment, don't they? Sometimes, it's just plain funnier to word-joust for a bit, and feel like you won an argument. We all like winning. Even if we're losing as a whole as a result, eh?

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