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MrConway

French Cruiser Changes

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[WG-EU]
WG Staff, Alpha Tester
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Captains,

 

Please leave your feedback on the changes made to French Cruisers in this thread.

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[CATS]
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I am no fan of the consumable, especially if you increase the reload times of some cruisers.

It is just a gimmick with very limited effect on overall performance of the ships.

 

I do not think that the game needs the consumable to stay interesting.

 

It would be better to pronounce the speed theme of french ships (better acceleration/deceleration, longer speed boost duration, better AP for rewarding flanking moves).

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Beta Tester
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 Yeah, you increase reload for some ships (Hindi, Alsace) and then add a consumable that decreases it to mistically in theory increase French performance and add another pointless gimmick to the line. There are a lot more issues with blanace than this, turbo loses in MM in under 10 min, rendering, players inteligence in general is questionable.

 This consumable was also made to push Richie to tier 9, while as i remember that once you removed Misery and added Musashi, you sayd 2 free exp ships is too much, now we have Nelson, Kronshtad, Musashi and this to come, might aswell bring Misery back as it doesnt matter already. I guess the flow of money during exp conversion has more worth than your words, but who are we to judge...

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[CORNG]
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I dont like the consumable party. For me and many others I talked to, T9 Saint Louise is a surely not OP Ship that rely on HE Spam and Fires. She dont need a Fire Rate nerf compensated by a new Consumable partly.     

 

To put this consumable also in a BB is even a lousier Idea. A Cruiser who needs to turn, is no more able to wait untill the BB fired to turn... because of this thing.  

 

With every new Consumable the game gets harder to learn for new Players .. oder Players with limited time...

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[ADRIA]
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43 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

as i remember that once you removed Misery and added Musashi, you sayd 2 free exp ships is too much, now we have Nelson, Kronshtad, Musashi and this to come

2 Free XP ships in the same slot. Big difference right there

 

t9 BB - Missouri / Musashi

t9 CA - Kronstadt

t7 BB - Nelson

 

As you can see just 1 of those categories has 2 ships

 

Also I haven't seen it being said anywhere that Jean Bart will be available for Free XP, source?

 


 

On topic:

I fail to understand where those nerfs come from. Both - Charles and St. Louis - statistically are pretty much average for their tiers, St. Loius even consistently being a bit below average. Those ships would now lose 1/6 of their DPM just to gain the ability to take 2...3 extra shots every few minutes for up to 5 times per game? That certainly doesn't seem like a benefiting trade

 

Lets take that to an extreme example of firing for 20 min (full game duration) nonstop.

10s reload - 119 shots (120th would be exactly 20:00)

12s reload - 99 shots (100th would be 20:00)

12s with t8 or t9 booser (they differ in cd) - 107 shots

 

No matter what you end up losing out

 

Even if you just compare shots fired while they have their RBs used on cooldown (as in - when it's ready pop it just a fraction of a second before the first shot with it):

Charles with RB falls behind the current 10s fire rate after just 18 shots fired (2x RBs used)

St. Louis with RB falls behind the current 10s fire rate after about 45 shots fired (all 5x RBs used) - it barely tags along the same fire rate while she has the RB

 

Here's a chart of how those 20min of shooting would look like (open it and zoom in for detail, it's a big one):

cz8OsNU.png

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Beta Tester
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I find its a niche consumable great when a DD pops up having a 3 sec reload on a Henri is death for the DD...but i find its mainly used when in a close 1 v 1 with another ship to gain the upper hand.

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Alpha Tester
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I'm not a french cruiser player, but I did so on the PTS,  and I rarely used the consumable. It just didn't seem like a benefit to the performance, since it only lasts 15 seconds. I managed maybe 3 salvos instead of 2? At least that's my impression. Not much use imho.

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Beta Tester
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I am also not playing the french cruisers. Its the only T10 I don't have of the cruisers. The ships don't seem to be very fun playing. I have tried several times on test server but its very meh... Now I tried the top tier ships again with reload consumable but it still does not make the ships more interesting to play for me. Its a real pity since I find many of the french cruisers very good looking and they have guns that are very comfortable to work with. The problem is the play style for me and it does not really change with the reload consumable.

 

My 10 cents on this topic.

 

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[STAFU]
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A pointless feature and change. It adds complications but nothing for the game play. Apart from the few seconds during the game that you can fire the module, your ship is just a non-fighting target. If I want long firing times I would go out in a BB.

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[BOBS3]
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To me the reload booster feels like a limited use "Expert Loader" skill, with the advantage that it's a 50% boost to loading time rather than a 50% reduction to switching shells. It doesn't seem to last long enough or have enough effect (unlike the Halloween one) to make much difference to the firepower, but it might let you fire your HE at the angled enemy, trigger the boost to shoot AP into their broadside as they turn, and be straight back to HE as they complete the turn and get back to angling against you.

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[FMW]
Players
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He is my feedback (Please note I am comparing my experiences with the Charles Martel).

I have been playing the French cruisers for a while now and having got to unlock the Saint Louis, this was a perfect time to try before I buy.

 

Sadly looking at the default reload time on Charles Martel I currently have in port is 10secs, on the pts it is 12secs, an increased time of 2seconds, just to favour a reload consumable. This has not made these ships better, all this has done is make dull ships even more boring to play.

Loosing 1 salvo per minute is a great Nerf. Please bin this idea.

 

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If to have a consumable that give me only occasionally the chance to shoot 3 except in place of 2, I have to choose to weaken the loading speed of the guns by 20% for the whole game...
honestly I would immediately renounce this stupid consumable! :etc_red_button:

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[GURKA]
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I would like, if there would be even more consumables like that, just to indiviualize more the own gameplay

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It's a nice idea in theory but in practice 15s is not long enough to make a difference to the fights I had with it. Unimpressed and I doubt I'll be in any hurry to pick up my Charles Martel grind on the live server with its new reload.

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[_OPC_]
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8 hours ago, Strappster said:

It's a nice idea in theory but in practice 15s is not long enough to make a difference to the fights I had with it. Unimpressed and I doubt I'll be in any hurry to pick up my Charles Martel grind on the live server with its new reload.

This!, reload booster far too situational.

 

Yeah if you caught someone broadside in close / mid range OK you may gain some advantage but overall pointless.

 

Overall another nerf to cruisers! GG! Make it last 30-40s then it will have some meaningful use

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I'll admit that when I actually used it the booster didn't seem as ridiculuously, stupidly cheesey as I was expecting. But I would certainly echo the posters above who have said it seems unnecessary and fairly uninteresting.

 

Apart from that, as others have pointed out, it is very situational. So nerfing the DPM of hte CM and the St.-L to justify putting this consumable on – which, as far as I'm aware, no-one really asked for and many seem opposed to – is not a decision I really support. The ships don't need the consumable in order to be interesting, but they do need their damage output. I hadn't really planned on going further than the Algérie, but this nerf just makes it even less likely that I will.

 

I know it's a textbook example of the slippery-slope fallacy, but I am concerned that introducing this consumable at all will only lead to calls for BBs to get it. That would IMO be A Bad Idea. Better to avoid it altogether perhaps? :Smile_hiding:

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If I manage to hit a well-coordinated team, I will write the reflections from the fight of Henry IV, and for now I reach the cooperation players.
But I can say that it is beautiful, controllable and fires concretely. It is accurate. :)

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I honestly liked it. Especially combined with radar. 3x6 (or x9) Henry HE shells in less than time of Moskva radar is very dangerous. 

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[SP4WN]
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I rarely play french cruisers as they are the most dull ships in-game for me. The speed consumable doesn't offer much as they are not very fast anyway. The only thing i found "interesting" about them are the fires sometimes i get on enemy ships. Now i gather you want to nerf tier 8-9 rof by 20% just to offer 1+ shot in very specific situations? It makes no sense and seems useless. As pointed out above, perhaps making the consumable last more like 60 sec or something akin to hydro. The current implementation would only make them less enjoyable and frustrating to play having a very anemic rof. Sorry, but giving with one hand and taking with the other isn't a solution, its a scam. 

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[HOTEL]
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I had hoped the reload booster would give me 15 seconds of punishment and awe-inspiring burst, but in the end I just kinda tapped the button whenever I went in and that was about it. Go in, boost, turn away, recharge, repeat. The French cruisers felt the best and able to keep up when the consumable was running and fell short when not. The 12s nerf seems uncalled for, especially with how weak the Charles Martel already is.

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In my opinion the consumable is a good IDEA, but the implementation is bad. Nerfing T8 and T9 french cruisers from an ok spot into a meh spot just for that gimmick that is implemented to BUFF T10 is badly thought out. Just decrease the T10s reload time by 1 second or so and be done with it. Don´t bother with that bad implementation please! If you want to implement the gimmick for the gimmicks sake is rather badly thought out. Take the idea, look at it and make the gimmick, but do it in a way that doesn´t hamper already ok/well done things please!

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I regularly play Henri IV and Charles Martel on live, they're OK ships if a bit bland, I've no objection to an extra consumable although I'm not a huge fan of gimmicks.

 

Increasing the reload of Charles and St Louis is a bad move, they're far from the fastest as they are now and increasing the reload by a full 20% is punitive which will make them far less fun to play, they don't bring that much to the battlefield on live, it will be even less if this change goes through. This is a bad move and it will mean people play the ships less.

Sorry I disagree very strongly with this change and @wilkatis_LV summed it up well with his analysis.

The only way this would work is if the consumable has infinite charges and a short cooldown say 1 minute, but that would be lunatic.

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[NOCAP]
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The Henri IV is a very strong ship, I like the agility and the guns. It doesn't need a gimmick, it's fun as it is.

 

I loved the reload booster in last year's Halloween event, please keep it out of the 'normal' gameplay.

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[OCTO]
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As it is, these changes (IMHO) are bad.

 

Henri IV does need something to make it more viable and reload booster could be it. HOWEVER,  St Louis and Charles Martel rely on kiting and DPM. Reducing DPM by 20 % will hurt them badly.

 

There are a few ways to handle this:

 

1. Introduce reload booster only to HIV and leave others as they are

2. Have a lower reduction of DPM per tier. I think that 10% should be the best compromise

3. Reduce DPM according to each ship, not  arbitrary number of 20% across the whole line 

 

Regards

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I agree with many of the comments here.

 

My opinion is that it's a bad idea to nerf the tier 8 and 9 cruisers of this line.

There was a lot of flak about cruisers getting the short end of the stick and WG decided to give them some love. The USN chapter has improved the amount of cruisers being played by a lot, I hardly see the once traditional 5BB + 2CA/CL + 5DD matches anymore (thank god) and cruisers now often have 5 each team. Good thing! :Smile_great:

 

But a side effect was the radars, which this or larger amount doesn't really fit into this meta (be it map design or he way radar works and is implemented) and which is in its turn giving WG a lot of flak.

In my opinion it would be a bad move to nerf one of the non-radar cruisers. Especially the DPM is a big deal to me, it was THE reason why I quit playing Hipper when I got it. When I later got CM I continued playing that ship.

 

The reload booster (as Wilkatis has already gracefully pointed out) obviously won't compensate enough for the DPM nerf of these non-radar cruisers.

 

And tier 9 is already in a hard spot concerning the discrepancy between premium and non-premium tier 9 ships.

 

I think it's a bad idea to nerf these ships.

Mind you, this is not taking into account the reload booster. If it weren't a nerf, I might have found it slightly useful in some situations. But I found the reload booster rather uninspiring when on PTS. It's basically one extra salvo in exchange for relatively lot of extra micromanagement on top of a 20% DPM nerf (20% is a LOT!).

I don't really know about the HIV as I kinda hardly ever played that ship.

 

The French cruisers already have their unique flavor: The speed boost. And this imo makes this line of ships a lot of fun :Smile_great:

The old Hipper was not a lot of fun and more of a frustrating experience, due to its lausy DPM (which has been buffed since by half the nerf that these french cruisers will be receiving).

They don't really need the reload booster. I don't mind if they implemented it without nerfing the tier 8 and 9 ships otherwise, but imo it won't really help them a lot either.

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