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DangerousDave2k

Is it me or does Aiming Systems Mod make Nagato and Amagi guns LESS accurate?

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When I first got Amagi, I found it quite easy to get shots on target for meaty chunks of damage, but now I've put the Aiming Systems Mod on it, suddenly I'm back in the world of nightmare blunderbuss action that put me (and others judging from in-game chat) off Nagato. As I recall, Nagato guns actually worked ok for me in the beginning, before themselves somehow becoming impossibly blunderbussy, and now I think back, that may also have happened around the time I put the Aiming Systems Mod on it.

 

Is this a coincidence?

 

Have the devs accidentally put a plus sign where they should have put a minus, and copy pasted the same code between these two boats?

 

Wondering what other peoples' experiences have been with this.

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I am afraid your statement is totally correct. (It is you).

RNG will be still RNG.
Also if you aim badly (not saying that you do), reduced dispersion stops you from getting the random citadels you'd otherwise get.

My experience is that the module works as advertised: It makes your dispersion a tiny bit better.

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Cant say anything about Amagi but with Nagato I don't shoot anything past 14km. Shoot past 14km and the rounds just fall all around the target. Nagatos guns for me have been way more frustrating than German BB guns.

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18 minutes ago, DangerousDave2k said:

Do I take it you recall improved performance when you added the Aiming Systems mod?

Yes, although very very slightly (as it should be).

I remember a year ago I blamed the artillery plotting room (also accuracy mod) on my Iowa performance after mounting one. Sold the Iowa in rage. 
Turned out I was just bad at aiming.

For your consideration, comparing my Iowa (played year ago) and Missoury (played recently). Same modules, same everything.
I just learned to aim with the guns, got used to them.
oi.thumb.png.cd6b309f25478f407026810057c5916c.png
 

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1 minute ago, Blixies said:

Yes, although very very slightly (as it should be).

I remember a year ago I blamed the very same upgrade on my Iowa performance after mounting one. Sold the Iowa in rage.
Turned out I was just bad at aiming.

For your consideration, comparing my Iowa (played year ago) and Missoury (played recently). Same modules, same everything.
I just learned to aim with the guns, got used to them.
oi.thumb.png.cd6b309f25478f407026810057c5916c.png
 

Thats one hell of an improvement there. Nice job. 

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22 minutes ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

Cant say anything about Amagi but with Nagato I don't shoot anything past 14km. Shoot past 14km and the rounds just fall all around the target. Nagatos guns for me have been way more frustrating than German BB guns.

Yeah Nagato's guns are rage-inducing. I was only too happy to sell it when I got the research for Amagi. When I first took Amagi out my thoughts were "oh this seems a lot better" - in fact I got my 144k high score in about the 5th game. But it all seems to be downhill since I put that aiming systems mod on it.

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20 minutes ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

Cant say anything about Amagi but with Nagato I don't shoot anything past 14km. Shoot past 14km and the rounds just fall all around the target. Nagatos guns for me have been way more frustrating than German BB guns.

That is super weird as the Nagato has 2.0 sigma (compared to Gneisenau's 1.8) and also better dispersion than literally any german BB past 10 km (literally).
The IJN BBs are the most accurate at long ranges out of all BBs.

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7 minutes ago, Darth_Glorious said:

Less dispersion also means if you aim wrong, the dispersion cannot save your shot

I don't think more dispersion will help anyone except for pretty incompetent aimers. I'm talking about spreads that are dead centre on target but just go all around it, whereas before they were making tighter clusters. But if nobody else has found the same thing, then I'll give it more time.

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3 minutes ago, DangerousDave2k said:

I don't think more dispersion will help anyone except for pretty incompetent aimers. I'm talking about spreads that are dead centre on target but just go all around it, whereas before they were making tighter clusters. But if nobody else has found the same thing, then I'll give it more time.

You're wrong there. Bad dispersion helped me a lot of times (almost on a daily basis).
Dealing and receiving random stray shells to the citadels is part of the charm of this god forsaken game in my opinion.

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I'm not sure about the Aiming mod since I always use it anyway, but Nagato feels worse than both Fuso and Amagi. Fewer guns means that you're going to hit less per salvo, and the very slight technical accuracy isn't enough to counter that.

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1 hour ago, AnotherDuck said:

Nagato feels worse than both Fuso and Amagi.

Don't have the Amagi, but I can agree with this feeling. Fuso has both the gunpower and some armor when angled, so it can really perform. I never felt any remorse for buying the perma camo (it looks sweet in the blue version).

Nagato? It just feels weird. Sides made of butter and a longer reload just don't make it for me. I'm struggling to make myself play that ship, and it's the last silver T7 BB I have to grind.

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Interestingly, I am rather okay with Nagato, I like her as she is. However, nowadays Kongo is an utter disappointment in this regard. Back in the day she felt like the GC of the Beta, now I wonder how the hell is she my most played ship. While with the Nagato I can nail things rather consistently and comfortably, Kongo just does not feel like getting rid of the "lol, nice salvo, here, have 1-3k, pleb"-dispersion regardless of seeking citadels from ~2 kilometers or lobbing stuff over at the start from ~20.

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"Feel" of accuracy is really subjective, one person's shotgun seems to be another person's sniper rifle. Objectively though, Nagato and Amagi are accurate ships by BB standards and I doubt the aiming mod makes much difference either way, even if it is bugged. Which I doubt, although I don't play without it because "every little helps" so I never tested, these ships feel very accurate to me in regular play. Anyway, I think sigma is way more important to accuracy than the max dispersion size.

 

For you  it could be anything from bad luck to misplaced expectations. Maybe you got really lucky RNG in your first few games, then by coincidence when you mount the module you get some bad ones, afterwards it averages but you've got confirmation bias. Hard to tell with so many other factors.

 

If you really care, go to a training room and fire a few hundred salvos at thr same stationary target with/without aiming mod. That's a fair test.

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5 hours ago, Blixies said:

That is super weird as the Nagato has 2.0 sigma (compared to Gneisenau's 1.8) and also better dispersion than literally any german BB past 10 km (literally).
The IJN BBs are the most accurate at long ranges out of all BBs.

A friend had 76 games with the Nagato before he unlocked the Amagi. Said that the damage per game was okayish but the trollish rounds landing all around the target was most infuriating quality of the Nagato.

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5 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

I don't think more dispersion will help anyone except for pretty incompetent aimers. I'm talking about spreads that are dead centre on target but just go all around it, whereas before they were making tighter clusters. But if nobody else has found the same thing, then I'll give it more time.

 

In the grand scheme of things, it does. It is mostly apparent when you take two ships of the same class, one with and one without improved dispersion and fire the same number of salvoes at evading targets. Of course a lot depends on sigma count (good sigma will have less spread out shot pattern and less outiers), but generally you'll be able to score more damage against a maneuvering target with worse dispersion just because you are covering a bigger piece of real estate.

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8 minutes ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

A friend had 76 games with the Nagato before he unlocked the Amagi. Said that the damage per game was okayish but the trollish rounds landing all around the target was most infuriating quality of the Nagato.

All BBs can do that to you (well, mabye not Guilio Cesare).
Yesterday I sailed 6 km broadside to broadside to Gneisennau in my Missouri.
Fired a salvo. Got 2 overpens on the bow and 2 overpenst on the stern. O_O
Quite a sight to behold! Literally none of the shells went to the center of the ship where I aimed :)

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2 minutes ago, Blixies said:

All BBs can do that to you (well, mabye not Guilio Cesare).
Yesterday I sailed 6 km broadside to broadside to Gneisennau in my Missouri.
Fired a salvo. Got 2 overpens on the bow and 2 overpenst on the stern. O_O
Quite a sight to behold! Literally none of the shells went to the center of the ship where I aimed :)

Got a couple of funky salvos with my Lyon in the Narai op today too. I be happy to get more overpens or bounces with my Nagato in long range fire exchange, then at least I'd knew the rounds went pretty close. Now I just look through my binoculars and watch in horror as everything rains all over the target. 2 rounds fall short, 2 rounds fly over and the rest go left and right.

 

At least that's my experience with my Nagato so far. I have under 20 battles with her so I have plenty to practice before Amagi.

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6 hours ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

Cant say anything about Amagi but with Nagato I don't shoot anything past 14km. Shoot past 14km and the rounds just fall all around the target. Nagatos guns for me have been way more frustrating than German BB guns.

I think that might be related to having to adapt to different gun properties. I played Nagato before and after grinding German BBs and frankly, I was too used to German guns with high shell velocity and such, that I first had to once again get used to Nagato's slightly slower and heavier shells. In the end, Nagato worked out fine though.

3 hours ago, AkosJaccik said:

Interestingly, I am rather okay with Nagato, I like her as she is. However, nowadays Kongo is an utter disappointment in this regard. Back in the day she felt like the GC of the Beta, now I wonder how the hell is she my most played ship. While with the Nagato I can nail things rather consistently and comfortably, Kongo just does not feel like getting rid of the "lol, nice salvo, here, have 1-3k, pleb"-dispersion regardless of seeking citadels from ~2 kilometers or lobbing stuff over at the start from ~20.

Yeah, I know that feel.

4 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Don't have the Amagi, but I can agree with this feeling. Fuso has both the gunpower and some armor when angled, so it can really perform. I never felt any remorse for buying the perma camo (it looks sweet in the blue version).

Nagato? It just feels weird. Sides made of butter and a longer reload just don't make it for me. I'm struggling to make myself play that ship, and it's the last silver T7 BB I have to grind.

Amagi basically has more guns and T8 armour. Also turtleback. Amagi can do solid devstrikes, but is actually less accurate than Nagato. But with 10 shells, you are bound to get something done. I liked Nagato, got solid performance out of it, but I grinded it after the Germans and with them, you kind of get used to not expecting devstrikes and while Nagato has long reload and only 8 guns, the guns seemed reasonably accurate and when they hit at something that isn't autobounce, they usually punch hard. I actually kept Nagato, only selling it recently to get credits for Roon (and I have enough T7 ships to play with friends). Will likely rebuy it when credits are less of an issue.

 

41 cm/45 3rd Year Type are pretty good guns though and I like them very much. Amagi is nice and I also own Kii, which despite lower sigma still does a great job. With 10 guns, you pretty much carry the heaviest broadside of T8 and below and only Alsace will beat you prior to T10. Just that your shells don't all just miss or bounce off an angled Hipper with 2k damage from superstructure overpen.

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I played the Nagato not so long ago, the guns are still pretty accurate if you aim well. I sniped a Kronstadt's nose for a citadel and pens. Amagi and Fuso are more forgiving because you have more shells. I haven't played these ships without the module. The Kongo isn't as accurate as the Nagato, but in comparison to all the other low tier non-premium BBs she is still the accuracy king.

 

If you don't trust the module you could play 100-200 battles each and compare the accuracy. The best method would be to play 50 - 50 - 50 - 50 - ... because your aiming will improve over time.

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On 2-8-2018 at 7:45 AM, Darth_Glorious said:

Less dispersion also means if you aim wrong, the dispersion cannot save your shot

 

Which is why (imo) dispersion should be buffed on many BBs; reward players with good aim, reward players that actively dodge, punish those who don't.

As it is now, the dispersion is one of many things that I consider to be part of the "potato protection".

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