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Yaskaraxx

Rendering Ships - delayed & failing

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Lately I experience happenings as below tooooooo often; just played another battle happening same:

 

My Massachusettes rounding island + enemy Desmoines rounding island. Both ships knew that they would meet soon, so locked barrels for shooting each other as soon as ships get rendered on screen (visible); no smoke. What happened is: that Desmoines already 4 kms right in front of my Massachusettes was NOT VISIBLE(???) while it started already shooting at Massachusettes??? So, enemy sees you, yet enemy NOT visible to you??? Enemey ship obviously knew of this BUG since otherwise that DesMoines would not give broadside 4 kms in front locked + aimed 9x 406mm barrels of Massachusettes! Seems enemy knew that his ship would be "much delayed rendered (made visible) to my Massachusettes. So, result, Desmoines shooting salvo's at Massachusettes while Massa (which normally could have easily destroyed that 4 kms broadside Desmoines) couldn't even shoot back 1x shell????? Due to this my Massachusettes was sunk, very surprisingly???...!!

 

Lately I see this happening more and more: close ships NOT visible (open water and no smoke) while YOUR own ship IS VISIBLE to them??? This is not fairplay & ruins any game experience to the ground, to the very core. This kind of happenings make people wonder whether they should stop playing under such conditions. If things like that occur frequently, well, what point is there to play any longer?

 

Look, I played this excellent game for over 2 yours as a subscriber, allways liked to play it. BUT what I know start to experience re "failure of rendering ships on screen", well, that is pretty seriously wrong.

 

Thinking about the reasons for above I can only think of 3 possibilities:

 

1) Game mechanics temporarily failing? I don't know, could be. For sure is things are not working well atm.

 

2) USN cruisers temporarily given some "rendering advantage" making them temporarily more popular to play? (meaning: month of the USN Cruisers?)...Maybe?! Not sure there, dunno..

 

3) Some enemy players are using illegal mods which give them "delayed rendering advantage"? I don't know. My opinion is: players should 100% play according & with game mechanics 100% according WG WoWS product. So, I would much like to see player just play WoWs vanilla (= excellent anyway!!). That provides 100% fullproof fairplay.

 

For sure I am not the only player that noticed present "delayed redering of ships" in battles & some enemy ships getting enormeous big advantages with it. I would much like to see that this problem will be solved with next update, so I can keep enjoying playing this great game.

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Are you sure you were UNDETECTED by the time you were coming around the Corner?

Des Moines has Radar (almost 100% guaranteed), and might have Hydro, or maybe a plane spotted you? Or did something else spot you?

Im not sure about rendering stuff, but ive experienced other ppl shooting when the target for me is not yet rendered. Maybe distance is making a difference, i.e. the closer you are, the faster it renders. Ofc this doesnt make sense in your example, thats why i think you were already spotted by something and thats why he could shoot before he was rendered for you.

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Unless you play the game on a toaster the difference between your ships visually rendering should be more than a fraction of a second.

 

Pay attention to your minimap, ships are shown on it instantly with no delays. Technically you can "blind-shoot" on a target who hasn't yet visually rendered in if you aim on your minimap, made easier by the recent introduction of the aim-spot

 

Also I agree with the opinion above that you probably were detected before even popping out around the corner 

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And i am shure there is no replay of it.

Replay or it didn't happen!

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15 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Are you sure you were UNDETECTED by the time you were coming around the Corner?

Des Moines has Radar (almost 100% guaranteed), and might have Hydro, or maybe a plane spotted you? Or did something else spot you?

Im not sure about rendering stuff, but ive experienced other ppl shooting when the target for me is not yet rendered. Maybe distance is making a difference, i.e. the closer you are, the faster it renders. Ofc this doesnt make sense in your example, thats why i think you were already spotted by something and thats why he could shoot before he was rendered for you.

Yes, I was detected whole time. I had 2x floatplanes in air, but with a Desmoines close I guess the 95% sure got shot down. Desmoines was detected by me also: I was surprised to notice it kept rounding the island, so I thought: "that Desmoines asking for it, that one I will sink before other ships gonna sink me. So, both Massa & Desmoines were 100% sure they would meet rounding the island; both detected by each other, waiting began. But what is so strange about it all: Desmoines straight right in front of Massa already shooting (some 3,5-4,0 kms away, full broadside!) while I couldn't even see Desmoines (open water, no smoke)...Desmoines right in front of Massa barrels yet completely safe because Desmoines was NOT VISIBLE (rendered) while obviously Massa WAS visible to Demoines. Talking very close range here and seems Desmoines completed rounding island many seconds earlier already? I played some 16k battles cuz I like this great game so much and what I now notice re rendering (made visible) of enemy ships is only lately, recently happening: meaning, in the past I never noticed things like this before. So, it is only very recently that I start noticing thing like this (delayed rendering, that is). Last: if I am experiencing this then there must be others experiencing same.

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I had this the other day. That Montana was like that for 2 minutes before I took this. Really wish I had recorded it :/

 

image.thumb.png.4bee45a3a40c7f1bb2de73cf1722f776.png

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13 minutes ago, Arakus said:

And i am shure there is no replay of it.

Replay or it didn't happen!

I allways preferred playing 100% vanilla (= excellent anyway) and I never do any recordings. What i described is sincere (realy happens), but then again, I don't have to prove it since if I experience it then there must be many others experiencing this same way, as of lately recently, that is. I am not the type that goes wasting my time (& the time of others) by stating things that not happened: would be waste of time (which I rather use playing the game instead , lol). So, lets wait & see if any other input of other players experiencing same re same will be posted later.

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32 minutes ago, Yaskaraxx said:

I allways preferred playing 100% vanilla (= excellent anyway) and I never do any recordings.

 

Dont need any Mods or third party Software or anything to make Replays. Its small files (1 to 3 MB usualy) that will be made by the game for each and every round.

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My issue with rendering is more of the long distance kind. Im spotted by an enemy ship or say the enemy Yamato in my Moskava. Yamato dropped off detection for a few momment and then fires off a salvo at me.

 

Both of us were in view range of each other, no island blocking our line of sight, I see his shells (tracer) coming from where his ship was last spotted and IFA tells me that i was shot at. The problem is even after shooting, it takes about 10s~15s for the Yamato to render. So instead of being able to return fire immediately and then angle and dodge the shells, I can only dodge. Feels like the Yamato gets a free pass on me without me paying it back:Smile_sceptic:

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1 hour ago, pra3y said:

My issue with rendering is more of the long distance kind. Im spotted by an enemy ship or say the enemy Yamato in my Moskava. Yamato dropped off detection for a few momment and then fires off a salvo at me.

 

Both of us were in view range of each other, no island blocking our line of sight, I see his shells (tracer) coming from where his ship was last spotted and IFA tells me that i was shot at. The problem is even after shooting, it takes about 10s~15s for the Yamato to render. So instead of being able to return fire immediately and then angle and dodge the shells, I can only dodge. Feels like the Yamato gets a free pass on me without me paying it back:Smile_sceptic:

yes, I also experienced happenings as you described (long range). And adding to my posting#5: close range 3.5-4 kms broadside invisible (not rendered) Desmoines did in total 17.313 damage on my Massa, stealth (14x HE shells = 6.775 + 8 x AP shells 10.538) while totally "stealth firing" open water no smoke or so...sunk my Massa (which was even perfectly slight angled, ready to give the fatal blow to Desmoines) which couldnt even fire 1x single shell because Desmoines not rendered all that time??? Come on...thats not fairplay. Secondly: i kind of wonder WHY did Desmoines act that normally incredible risky way/manner? Obviously he KNEW that Desmoines would not be rendered (visible)? Can't think of any sound alternative reason for Desmoines "insane high-risk-taking" (...unless Desmoines KNEW it would not present any risk at all for it....).

Again, I trust more players will comment; I notice rendering problems (more frequently) only recently, lately. In past I never ever (!) noticed things like this re rendering-issues. No doubt this will be solved soon (WG has allways proven to act very fast and very adequately, very professional crew, during the years I play this game I came to realy admire the excellent professional manner WG tackles problems). So, no doubt, this temporary problem also will disappear (be fixed) soon.

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  • This is not a bug
  • Guns can lock on target before target is rendered
  • As soon as your guns start following the not yet rendered target, you can guess where it is
  • Players using fast firing guns tend to shoot then and might hit, just a matter of experience

And yes, you might have been spotted and did not realize this.

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30 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

And yes, you might have been spotted and did not realize this.

This is the sad part. The game UI clearly shows when you're spotted. So in reality there is no excuse for not knowing if you were spotted or not.

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2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:
  • This is not a bug
  • Guns can lock on target before target is rendered
  • As soon as your guns start following the not yet rendered target, you can guess where it is
  • Players using fast firing guns tend to shoot then and might hit, just a matter of experience

And yes, you might have been spotted and did not realize this.

 

What about the long range rendering issue i described? I can put up a replay and ss later when im home.

 

Have to agree with OP that the rendering stuff is a recent issue. Never had them in the past.

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I'm experiencing a lot more delay recently in game rendering. Sometimes the rendering time is in ridiculous levels. If a ship is behind islands and / or smoke, it can pop up in minimap for few seconds, then get rendered for a fraction of a second, then disappear (because of a blockage of sight) and then appear again in the minimap ect. Sometimes when this happens, the aim lock can "stick" to it but the ship will not be rendered. Point is that you would have time for some seconds to actually aim and shoot those ships, if the delay wasn't so bad.

 

It is kinda annoying and makes the shooting part pretty hard sometimes. I know that ppl are shooting regardless and even hitting ships, but this was not like this in the past. They tried to fix it and then "fix" it back and now it seems to be even worse than before.

 

8 hours ago, GhostRider_24 said:

I had this the other day. That Montana was like that for 2 minutes before I took this. Really wish I had recorded it :/

Sadly this too happens sometimes. :(

 

4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:
  • This is not a bug

I'm not sure which part you are referring, but didn't WG admit that this has become a bug? (For no apparent reason they could think of) And they tried to fix it. And did not succeed.

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No, they did not. They said they were not happy how it works and tried changing the system by making rendering and spotting notification closer together.

I do not see much difference.

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There clearly is an issue with rendering times.

If i had to guess what causes this i would pick overly agressive memory management deleting textures that need to be reloaded constantly.

 

 

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2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

No, they did not. They said they were not happy how it works and tried changing the system by making rendering and spotting notification closer together.

I do not see much difference.

I was referring to this :

And tbh there is no word "bug" in it, but it surely sounds like one and behaves like one, too. And like many of us stated, this was not working like this before. So something must've happened somewhere between 0.7 -> to day. But I see that the OP's or other posters problem (ships not eventually rendering at all, only funnel smoke ect) is not necessarily the exact same problem? IDK, but it is very annoying and can cost you a lot of HP or missed salvos.

 

I don't have the latest rig for gaming, but it should be good enough to run this game properly. Therefore I'm trying to discuss about it and wonder, how this can happen to someone but not all of us.

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Keep in mind that if at least half of your ship, including its center mass, is concealed by smoke or island corners then the ship will not render.
So if you were going forward, circling around the island trying to catch him, and he was circling backwards keeping his center mass behind the corner then you would not be able to see him.

Assume that you got momentarily spotted.
That  split second + some trial and error with his guns is what allowed him to keep shooting at you.
I know i can reliably blind shoot bbs from inside my smoke in my dd when they are rushing me or they try to leave.

Not saying that this is exactly what happened but its something to keep in mind for the future

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10 hours ago, pra3y said:

The problem is even after shooting, it takes about 10s~15s for the Yamato to render.

No, it takes about (with some slight variation) 1.5s for Yamato to load in. Anything past that is the fault of your toaster, not the game

 

Also sounds like you need to read this - http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection

 

8 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

(...)

As already said to you multiple times - either your toaster didn't render the DM, or (as it sounds more and more) DM was using the island to cover himself, shooting you with his bow guns while probably reversing (since you ere pushing ahead).

 

We can't tell you the answer bcuz you can't provide up with a replay / screenshots from which we could take a more or less accurate guesstimate of what happened, but the only 2 ways I see is a) your toaster needs an upgrade or b) he straight up outplayed you and you don't even realize that

 

 

 

 

 

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On 01/08/2018 at 12:09 PM, wilkatis_LV said:

No, it takes about (with some slight variation) 1.5s for Yamato to load in. Anything past that is the fault of your toaster, not the game

 

Also sounds like you need to read this - http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection

 

Why do I need to read it for? Its not like I don't know anything about detection in the first place after these many battles. Note that im not complaining about a stealth firing Yamato. If that Yamato was behind a rock with no friendly ships or planes spotting then yeah I have nothing to say if 9 nippon grade shells smack me into oblivion.

 

However, if everything comes into view almost instantly and I can literally see the shells leaving the Yamato before seeing the actually ship coming out of "stealth" a few secs later than normal how is it my rig's fault? All these felt pretty recent with WG's rendering tweaks.

 

Well, talk is cheap. So give me about a week or 2 and I'll put up the replay and screenshot. Currently overseas and have no access to my files and the game. Sigh im missing out on alot of the freebies :Smile_sad:

 

Apologies for the delayed reply.

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2 hours ago, pra3y said:

However, if everything comes into view almost instantly and I can literally see the shells leaving the Yamato before seeing the actually ship coming out of "stealth" a few secs later than normal how is it my rig's fault? All these felt pretty recent with WG's rendering tweaks.

Yamato gets spotted, and thus shows up on your minimap in the exact moment he fires. On your screen it will be rendered about 1.5s later, which is an intentionally introduced delay, which btw they are working on to get rid of.

 

If it takes you longer that those 1.5-ish sec it's your PC being slow somewhere and failing to load in the model in time, hence the increased waiting time.

 

Recent rendering tweaks? Name one. (don't even bother, as there are 0 of them)

 


 

The one I know that can really cause problems is slow / dying HDD. My own HDDs dying, I often have to wait 3...5s for a ship to render. Doesn't hurt too much, as in a BB I can wait, while for DDs and CAs even if I don't think I can wait the time their rate of fire is quick enough for me to take a blind shot aimed on the map.

 

Meanwhile if you have the game on a SSD you should experience far less problems, as that seems to be the 1st offered solution for nearly everything

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On 03/08/2018 at 10:12 PM, wilkatis_LV said:

Recent rendering tweaks? Name one. (don't even bother, as there are 0 of them)

Weren't they playing around with rendering recently (never looked at the news in-depth). I think someone posted the link above.

 

Il just post the reply and ss when I get back home. Then you guys can tell me if its my toaster that's the problem :Smile_teethhappy:

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7 minutes ago, pra3y said:

Weren't they playing around with rendering recently (never looked at the news in-depth). I think someone posted the link above.

They were, until I posted this:

 

 

Showed that, instead of getting rid of the delay they are introducing the same delay on your minimap aswell. Flamu noticed the vid on forums, posted it in his Discod, slight community outrage followed, WG pulled the idea back and all we've got since is "we're still working on getting rid of the delay"

 

That's it.

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On 01/08/2018 at 8:43 AM, ColonelPete said:

No, they did not. They said they were not happy how it works and tried changing the system by making rendering and spotting notification closer together.

I do not see much difference.

 

I notice a definite difference as I play DD's that contest caps, the delay in rendering is very noticeable and not infrequently fatal. To ships that hang back it's a minor inconvenience.

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