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Thanks_for_all_the_fish

HELP: This game is dying for me.

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I've been playing WoWs for a couple of months now and it's been a great experience overall. First game in a LONG time where I actually feel adrenalinerushes. And the moments when I got my first Tier X ships were great. Really felt like I'd accomplished something. 

 

But lately, it's one hell of an up-hill struggle. In fact, I feel cursed. At the rate I'm going win-rate-wise I'll be down in the low 40s by end of august. And the reason...well, some of it's obviously me. I admit I've spent WAY too much time grinding CO-OP with the obvious result that I can shoot...but have a lack of understanding regarding the tactics of random battles.

And still...I really do feel the MM is actively trying to destroy the game for me. So much so that I've formulated a theory of how it works...that it takes your winrating and matches you only with people with a lower one. As I am, with just under 1000 random battles played, still just over 50...well…

 

The problem...I still bloody like the game! But it's so disheartening to loose all the bloody time. So yes, the game is dying for me. I'd happily welcome ANY and ALL advice (other than…"get good" or "LTP"...I mean REAL advice/help) to help me improve.

 

And on another note, completely besie the previous points. I HATE...and I do mean HATE, even LOATHE the karma-system. And yes, I know it's purely cosmetic, but as it is...why does it exist in the first place? If it was purely cosmetic and only measured when you got PLUS Points, I'd understand it. Then it'd make sence. A way for players to look at a number and say, "well, some people liked what I did" and feel good about it. But no...it's just a new and novel way for people to dump on other people. Grats wargaming, you've made a bully-system.

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Well from what I read and my short look on your stats told me, I do have an advice: Dont see the game like T10 is the goal or the end-game or something like that. You can have the same amount of fun (often even more) on lower tiers. Nothing wrong with playing T4 for a while (Did it myself, as I enjoyed the maps and the ships there). This has a nice side-affect, which is, that you learn the game and get better all the time. It prepares you for the higher tiers and all of a sudden, when you go back there, you do much better.

And another adivce: Nothing wrong in taking a couple of weeks off from the game. Did this myself also and at some point just had the urge to play again.

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7 minutes ago, Thanks_for_all_the_fish said:

I've been playing WoWs for a couple of months now and it's been a great experience overall. First game in a LONG time where I actually feel adrenalinerushes. And the moments when I got my first Tier X ships were great. Really felt like I'd accomplished something. 

 

But lately, it's one hell of an up-hill struggle. In fact, I feel cursed. At the rate I'm going win-rate-wise I'll be down in the low 40s by end of august. And the reason...well, some of it's obviously me. I admit I've spent WAY too much time grinding CO-OP with the obvious result that I can shoot...but have a lack of understanding regarding the tactics of random battles.

And still...I really do feel the MM is actively trying to destroy the game for me. So much so that I've formulated a theory of how it works...that it takes your winrating and matches you only with people with a lower one. As I am, with just under 1000 random battles played, still just over 50...well…

 

The problem...I still bloody like the game! But it's so disheartening to loose all the bloody time. So yes, the game is dying for me. I'd happily welcome ANY and ALL advice (other than…"get good" or "LTP"...I mean REAL advice/help) to help me improve.

 

And on another note, completely besie the previous points. I HATE...and I do mean HATE, even LOATHE the karma-system. And yes, I know it's purely cosmetic, but as it is...why does it exist in the first place? If it was purely cosmetic and only measured when you got PLUS Points, I'd understand it. Then it'd make sence. A way for players to look at a number and say, "well, some people liked what I did" and feel good about it. But no...it's just a new and novel way for people to dump on other people. Grats wargaming, you've made a bully-system.

I have played this game a lot...and bad days just happen...I have it today...cant win or do nothing doesnt matter how you try to play.

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16 minutes ago, Thanks_for_all_the_fish said:

I've been playing WoWs for a couple of months now and it's been a great experience overall. First game in a LONG time where I actually feel adrenalinerushes. And the moments when I got my first Tier X ships were great. Really felt like I'd accomplished something. 

 

But lately, it's one hell of an up-hill struggle. In fact, I feel cursed. At the rate I'm going win-rate-wise I'll be down in the low 40s by end of august. And the reason...well, some of it's obviously me. I admit I've spent WAY too much time grinding CO-OP with the obvious result that I can shoot...but have a lack of understanding regarding the tactics of random battles.

And still...I really do feel the MM is actively trying to destroy the game for me. So much so that I've formulated a theory of how it works...that it takes your winrating and matches you only with people with a lower one. As I am, with just under 1000 random battles played, still just over 50...well…

 

The problem...I still bloody like the game! But it's so disheartening to loose all the bloody time. So yes, the game is dying for me. I'd happily welcome ANY and ALL advice (other than…"get good" or "LTP"...I mean REAL advice/help) to help me improve.

 

And on another note, completely besie the previous points. I HATE...and I do mean HATE, even LOATHE the karma-system. And yes, I know it's purely cosmetic, but as it is...why does it exist in the first place? If it was purely cosmetic and only measured when you got PLUS Points, I'd understand it. Then it'd make sence. A way for players to look at a number and say, "well, some people liked what I did" and feel good about it. But no...it's just a new and novel way for people to dump on other people. Grats wargaming, you've made a bully-system.

 

Decide what you like, and stay at that tier. I mostly play T6 to T8 with the occasional T5 and T4 games. It will usually take 300 or 400 games to get a hang of MP.  Don't stress or care about stats, they are fairly meaningless. Win rate especially is a bad metric at the moment with SO many terrible players.

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Maybe try to find more ppl to play with you together? I dont like play solo WoWs either, basicly we are always playing division. You are in a clan with almost 30 ppl, sure there will be some online?

 

If you are interested in becoming a better player, others can only help you when you would post an average replay of your tier/class (which you would like to improve) game.  Overall the more different classes and ships you play, the better you will understand the shortcommings of each and everyone. Playing BB and getting torped by a DD seems frustrating f.e., but playing a DD might show you what you can do better as a BB player.

When you post a replay, there are always ppl who are willing to help you improve your gameplay, if you are interested.

 

About the Karma-system:

Best thing is, dont give a s*** about it. If you get complimented, feel like someone appreciated what you did. If you get reported for no reason... then shrug it off. There are many salty players in WoWs....

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43 minutes ago, Thanks_for_all_the_fish said:

And on another note, completely besie the previous points. I HATE...and I do mean HATE, even LOATHE the karma-system. And yes, I know it's purely cosmetic, but as it is...why does it exist in the first place? If it was purely cosmetic and only measured when you got PLUS Points, I'd understand it. Then it'd make sence. A way for players to look at a number and say, "well, some people liked what I did" and feel good about it. But no...it's just a new and novel way for people to dump on other people. Grats wargaming, you've made a bully-system.

 

Why do you care about what Mr. Nobody thinks about you on the internet?

Because that is basically what the karma system amounts to...

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I get reported now and then. It doesn't really bother me that much, and sometimes I deserve it. If you get reported by the enemy, then see it as a compliment. You killed them or outplayed them, they're salty about that. Nothing tastes as good as the salty tears of a defeated opponent.

 

I agree with Forlonsailor. People ask me why I still have the North Carolina for example, when I already have Iowa in port. But I don't want to only play tier 10, I keep ships that I like regardless of the tier. I find it fun to sometimes go to the lower tiers. Besides, that helped me a lot in the past. By rebuying the Furutaka I managed to get much better in Myõkõ.

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46 minutes ago, Thanks_for_all_the_fish said:

The problem...I still bloody like the game! But it's so disheartening to loose all the bloody time. So yes, the game is dying for me. I'd happily welcome ANY and ALL advice (other than…"get good" or "LTP"...I mean REAL advice/help) to help me improve.

 

Judging by your numbers, you seem to have just paid for free exp conversions and bum rushed up the trees. You have only 9 games played in your Roon, yet have the Hindenburg. 42 in your FDG, with only 33% wr. There is no way you yielded enough exp in those games to get up to the next ship without dumping cash into fexp conversions. This just SCREAMS the mindset of, "if I have the bigger ship, I'll do better."

 

If you want advice like you claim: go back to t6 and go up a tree naturally. Actually learn how to play effectively, specifically positioning which is arguably the most important skill in this game, knowing where to be and when. Put the time in. t10 isn't endgame that you have to play at once you reach it, or even some goal to get to. Everyone has bad wr days, but if you're really losing all the time, the one constant is you.

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My advice is to just enjoy the part of the game you like the most, doesn't matter what it is Co-op Random or operations. Play the ships you like whatever tier they might be. Not important the only thing that matters is your own enjoyment.

Don't give s... about what others may thinks of you. Internet is full of sociopaths and other trolls which only have the goal to be salty and annoy others.  just live up to the goals you sets.. Nothing else matters

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My advice is to fly to the stars with your fellow dolphin friends, and wish for just one last fish.

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Ok wow...to begin with...fate in internet improved. Thanks all for real honest comments.

 

So basically, ignore bad times (which is hard) and play ships I like and want to get better on (which I'd gladly do) to get better on them. Even so...300-400 matches on one ship to really learn it? Wow, I am a newbie.

 

Quote

Judging by your numbers, you seem to have just paid for free exp conversions and bum rushed up the trees. You have only 9 games played in your Roon, yet have the Hindenburg. 42 in your FDG, with only 33% wr. There is no way you yielded enough exp in those games to get up to the next ship without dumping cash into fexp conversions. This just SCREAMS the mindset of, "if I have the bigger ship, I'll do better." 

 

Yes, I'll freely admit I have done exactly what you say.

 

Quote

Maybe try to find more ppl to play with you together? I dont like play solo WoWs either, basicly we are always playing division. You are in a clan with almost 30 ppl, sure there will be some online?

Yeah, I may be a member...but the clan's not what you'd call active. I got invited to it after one match where I did fairly well and well...that was that so far.

That said, I do have friends who play and have ships my tiers...and you're right, it's way past time we try together.

 

 

Quote

Decide what you like, and stay at that tier.

Ah, but here's one small problem. I LIKE the t9-t10 ships and want to get better on them.

Still, I hear you...and in the spirit of what people are saying I'll probably be trying the Japanese cruisers and French cruisers (and maybe BBs) and level them the real way. No free exp used at all.

 

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My advice is to fly to the stars with your fellow dolphin friends, and wish for just one last fish.

Heh, everyone always sees that as the reason behind my name. And I'll admit, that was one part of it. Another was my so called sense of humour kicking in...as "fish" is slang for torpedoes and I foresaw seeing ALOT of those fired on me.

 

Again, thanks all. I'll try and not let my bad luck get to me and just try to really learn to play the ships I like. Which will no doubt be frustrating, but I suppose I can get though it. If you see me in game don't hesitate to TRY and miss me. ;)

 

So long...and thanks for all the fish.

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49 minutes ago, thiextar said:

My advice is to fly to the stars with your fellow dolphin friends, and wish for just one last fish.

"And thanks for all the free fish."

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22 minutes ago, Thanks_for_all_the_fish said:

 

Ah, but here's one small problem. I LIKE the t9-t10 ships and want to get better on them.

The problems you will encounter if you just try to stay at tier 9/X

 

-The bots in co-op love sailing in straight lines. Real players don't. You are probably reasonably good at shooting ships travelling in a straight line. You are probably less good at predicting how an actual player will turn/dodge, and therefore how to hit those.

 

-The bots in coop are incredibly easy to beat, having no tactics beyond yolo. You have probably noticed that its pretty much impossible to lose in coop. Even if you do become great in randoms, you won't ever win games as much as you do in coop. In randoms the very best of the best have 75/85%. In coop the very worst of the worst have 80%+

 

- One of the main skills to learn is seeing how the battle in unfolding, seeing what is going to fall, when to push, when to fall back, when to Yolo and when to just run and hide. This can't really be taught, it only comes with playing. Coop doesn't teach you this, because the bots behave so woodenly.

 

-Tier 9/X are unforgiving. The ships there are deadly, and a wrong move can easily put you back in port. Also there's a lot of experienced players there too.

 

-At tier 9/X YOU are the top tier. Which means a lot of the weight of carrying your team to victory rests on your shoulders. Don't expect the tier 8 cruiser to take out the enemy tier X BB. If you don't know what you're doing, and you're in a ship with a lot of responsibility then you can expect to lose.

 

Best advice - if you have the time/inclination, play through from low tiers the same way if you did your grinding in randoms.

Shorter version - Go play tier 4. A lot. It's a protected tier so you will only ever meet tier 5 max. It's also the first tier where you meet all classes, and the ships are more like the rest of the line (tier 1-3 are all slow fat with catapults). This will get you used to playing actual people more, while not putting you against anyone actually any good bar the odd seal clubbers.

Do this until you can read the map/battle, and be able to preempt things. When you start winning a lot, and coming top of the scores a lot, you are ready to move on.

 

Jump next to tier 7. Tier 5 and 6 teach you stuff, but atm it's mostly how to avoid dying to ships much bigger than you. Tier 7 is frequently top tier. Same as before, stay there until you are completely comfortable with it, and can win a lot there. Then go back to 9/X. There's still plenty to learn there, but by that point you will be more ready for it

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5 hours ago, Thanks_for_all_the_fish said:

Even so...300-400 matches on one ship to really learn it? Wow, I am a newbie.

Not 300-400 games in one ship (hell even I don't have that). More like 300-400 games in a specific ship class of different lines is how I would interpret it. Putting 300 games in for example BB's and cruisers respectively give you a pretty clear idea on how the classes work.

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7 hours ago, Thanks_for_all_the_fish said:

I've been playing WoWs for a couple of months now and it's been a great experience overall. First game in a LONG time where I actually feel adrenalinerushes. And the moments when I got my first Tier X ships were great. Really felt like I'd accomplished something. 

 

But lately, it's one hell of an up-hill struggle. In fact, I feel cursed. At the rate I'm going win-rate-wise I'll be down in the low 40s by end of august. And the reason...well, some of it's obviously me. I admit I've spent WAY too much time grinding CO-OP with the obvious result that I can shoot...but have a lack of understanding regarding the tactics of random battles.

And still...I really do feel the MM is actively trying to destroy the game for me. So much so that I've formulated a theory of how it works...that it takes your winrating and matches you only with people with a lower one. As I am, with just under 1000 random battles played, still just over 50...well…

 

The problem...I still bloody like the game! But it's so disheartening to loose all the bloody time. So yes, the game is dying for me. I'd happily welcome ANY and ALL advice (other than…"get good" or "LTP"...I mean REAL advice/help) to help me improve.

 

And on another note, completely besie the previous points. I HATE...and I do mean HATE, even LOATHE the karma-system. And yes, I know it's purely cosmetic, but as it is...why does it exist in the first place? If it was purely cosmetic and only measured when you got PLUS Points, I'd understand it. Then it'd make sence. A way for players to look at a number and say, "well, some people liked what I did" and feel good about it. But no...it's just a new and novel way for people to dump on other people. Grats wargaming, you've made a bully-system.

You got your ships in coop ,well coop battles don't teach you how to play when you play in random you should get back to tier 5 and go up only when you feel confident, if you jump into t 7+ battle you will only feel frustated give yourself time to learn at lower tiers

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5 hours ago, Xevious_Red said:

The problems you will encounter if you just try to stay at tier 9/X

 

-The bots in co-op love sailing in straight lines. Real players don't.

Really?

 

No, really?

 

 

The only difference is between bots and humans is: bots rush while humans camp. Other than that, bots are better at this game than most humans.

 

And OP - stay in coop, it's fun. Unless you get a salty pee v pee playur and he goes "HURR DURR KILLSTEALER REPROTET!!!!!!!1" (seems to be happening way more often since the starts of go navy event)  :Smile_teethhappy:

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U need practice, to quote a character from one of legendary movies about the war on Sea - lots and lots of lovely practice. In my Experience coop only play is not so bad as training of aiming (aldough bots dont really Dodge much) but for learning map awerness and positioning its utter crap espetially in high tiers where there is little Room for mistakes, that Said i find high tier cruisers more enjoyable then low or mid tier ones due to the heal (ok some mid tier prems have it as Well nowdays ad Well as the Rn line) and potent guns so i understand your Desire to get there fast

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1 hour ago, orzel286 said:

 

 

The only difference is between bots and humans is: bots rush while humans camp. Other than that, bots are better at this game than most humans.

 

And OP - stay in coop, it's fun. 

I know all this is subjective, but it really is not fun. Standard coop bots are beyond retarded and winning over them pose no challenge, skill or tactics. No matter what ship they are in they will just rush you guns blazing and all you have to do is wait for them to come to you and you just kill them.

 

Operations are fun, with bots that atleast focus fire. You people that like coop, go ahead. But if you actually want to learn the game and get rewards that are not crap stick to PvP.

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Hi @Thanks_for_all_the_fishand welcome to the forum. As I see it you made the most common mistake of them all, that will be guaranteed to spoil the fun every time. You went to tier 10 much too quickly thinking that it would be some sort of gamer's Mecca and the ultimate cool. This perception is, of course dead wrong. In practice, this only means that you are now an inexperienced target at tier 10 stuck-in with the pro's, who'll wipe their bottoms with you nearly every game without even breaking a sweat. Unfortunately, you should not be at this tier before you have at the least 2-3000 more games under your belt. Simply because, if you are a normal average human being, at only 900+ Random games played you just haven't had enough experience to learn all the tricks yet to play with the big boys and live. This is quite normal, happens(ed) to most of us.:Smile_Default:

 

Also, you have not experimented much with any other ship type than a Battleship, which means that your perception of what is happening during a game is limited (this will hurt your results) and also that perhaps you just have not "found" the type of ship or playstyle that will produce the best results for you. Battleship although big and powerful  is also a big-fat, clumsy and juicy target to everyone and as such, any small mistake will inevitably cost you dearly every time. Also to defend yourself more effectively against the DD's, CV's or Cruisers you really need to learn how to play them yourself so you will know what they can and cannot do. In short, at the moment you have bitten way more than you can chew and are in way over your head (NOT TO WORRY, I DID THE SAME THING AND SO DID MANY OTHERS).:Smile_bajan2:

 

So now the real learning "How to play the game" starts... Go back to lower tiers and ace them first. Experiment with all ship types, so that you will know the opposition. Preferably try all the different countries too, because there are significant difference on how they play. That way you may be able to find the line that suits your personal playstyle and abilities the best. It is especially recommendable for you to learn to perform well in tiers 5 and 7 first. because this is where you will learn how to play as the underdog and not the top tier (well sometimes anyway). Once you have mastered that, go to tier 9 and try it out again until it goes well. Once satisfied that you performing well at tier 9, then and only then go back to tier 10 and you will have no worries.:cap_like:

 

Good luck and happy sailing!:cap_viking:

 

 

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Good advice for the m8 above imo maybee you should try t10 ships of different nations on PTS before grinding them since low and mid tier ones often do not offer a Real insight on the high tier representatives of the line aldough t7 is usually similar enough to draw some conclusions (not always tho as in RU crusers for eyample)

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So basically, ignore bad times (which is hard) and play ships I like and want to get better on (which I'd gladly do) to get better on them. Even so...300-400 matches on one ship to really learn it? Wow, I am a newbie.

Ignoring bad times is a very valuable skill, this game can and will be very frustrating from time to time. When things start to go south, take a break (few hours, one day, one week...) and return with enthusiasm. If there is a grind going on, usually we (the players) tend to get frustrated and lose our focus. 300-400 games in one ship is a lot, only few have that many in any ship. It depends on a tier you are playing (and the player himself) how many games it takes to be effective in a ship or to master a certain class. You have around 1k battles in randoms, which is a very good start. Another 1k will teach you a lot, if you put effort in it and give time to really master the mechanics and play all ship types ; Then you will know what is a good procedure to counter each ship and most of the situations.

 

Quote

Yeah, I may be a member...but the clan's not what you'd call active. I got invited to it after one match where I did fairly well and well...that was that so far.

That said, I do have friends who play and have ships my tiers...and you're right, it's way past time we try together.

That will teach you a lot, if you play in division and have a voice over.

 

Quote

Ah, but here's one small problem. I LIKE the t9-t10 ships and want to get better on them.

Still, I hear you...and in the spirit of what people are saying I'll probably be trying the Japanese cruisers and French cruisers (and maybe BBs) and level them the real way. No free exp used at all.

Ships in those tiers are very good, but, one should learn the basics of that certain ship line in the lower tiers. Each ship has something to teach you and that is the key to be good and master the upper tiers. In high tiers the tendency to get punished from a slightiest mistake is extremely high. The higher you go the more there is small nuances to consider. If you watch some videos from YT, you will learn a lot of these and can put them in to your own gameplay. Flamu, Flambass, iChaseGaming, Notser ect. are some of the CC's who provide excellent material for that and you will be in top of things since they usually will make a video about an upcoming ships, ship lines and updates regarding mechanics ect.

 

Quote

Again, thanks all. I'll try and not let my bad luck get to me and just try to really learn to play the ships I like. Which will no doubt be frustrating, but I suppose I can get though it. If you see me in game don't hesitate to TRY and miss me. ;)

You are in the right track to get better since you asked for help. If you have the patience to learn, make mistakes and learn from them, you will be a lot better in the future. This game will take a long time to master, first step will still be to get a grasp at least from some ship, ship type or line and then trying to learn why someone / some ship / some ship type is especially hard for you to counter.

 

Have patience. Learn. Make mistakes. Watch some videos. Have some more patience. Learn some more. Adapt to new mechanics (WG is "improving" them constantly). Make mistakes again. Watch some more videos... And most ppl suddenly will become a lot better players. It will not happen in over night. It will not happen in a matter of weeks.

 

And welcome to the forum. Happy hunting!

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7 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

I know all this is subjective, but it really is not fun. Standard coop bots are beyond retarded and winning over them pose no challenge, skill or tactics. No matter what ship they are in they will just rush you guns blazing and all you have to do is wait for them to come to you and you just kill them.

 

Operations are fun, with bots that atleast focus fire. You people that like coop, go ahead. But if you actually want to learn the game and get rewards that are not crap stick to PvP.

Waiting for bots to come to you is bad idea, if only for damage farming reasons. Oh boy, I'd love if bots in standard coop didn't focus fire, or didn't focus on me specifically (guess that's how they show their tough love for me <3) ESPECIALLY when I'm in a dd. Hell, bot carriers even try to snipe me when I'm in a cv (funny thing is, that I get ALL THE DROPS on me anyway when I don't play cv :cap_hmm:).

 

Also, some guys in coop are so chill, that if you play well you get

HEAD PATS!



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pls don't lewd me T_T

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Coop doesn't teach you anything beyond 20 battle in it honestly.

 

I know playing high-tier can be very tempting. After all those are the best ships the game can offer. But as they say "with high power comes high responsibility". When you play top tier ship, you're supposed to be able to carry your own weight at least, if not carry your whole team.

If you really wants to familiarize yourself with the high-tier ships, go for tier 7.

 

Overall I disagree strongly with the "play in tier 4" advice. This tier lacks balances with sealclubber ship everywhere (Ishizuchi, Nikolai, Iwaki, Arkansas, Clemson...) and some very bad ship.

 

Tier 5-7 are interesting, but you'd better choose the best tier 5 ship to play, as some are very bad when uptiered (or very bad, period... Emerald...). I'll advise to play any ship you want in this selection : Kongou, Myoukou, New Orleans, Fusou, Nagato, Fiji, Algérie, Akatsuki, Budyonny/Shchors (to get a feel of the IFHE-152 gameplay, same for Helena), KGV... 

 

As for tier 8, Amagi and North Carolina are good for getting a feeling of high-tier battle with battleships, Richelieu is nice but it's harder to play it effectively and both Alsace and République are very different. As for cruisers, Baltimore and Chapayev are a nice introduction to dealing with tier 10 with squishy ships.

 

In high-tier the most difficult part is to being agressive without being too agressive and overextending.

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