How to screw your community with a flawed "contest" called THE RIG (pun intented)

[principat121]

Hello fellow captains,

 

in Flamus monday stream he brought up some intersting table about the achieved points in the current THE RING contest running between the CCs for being added as a new special commander in WoWs:

Spoiler

 

That table just showed the number shortly after the release of the videos. But it could be clearly seen that the results are biased and that the "formula" is just flawed. The contender Warships podcast with

• the 3rd lowest view numbers,
• the 3rd lowest likes and
• the 3rd lowest numbers of comments

is leadind by a comfort margin only because his subs number is so incredibly low!

 

 

I thought, lets give it a day and see how the numbers will develop. And that's what we got today (tuesday):

Spoiler

 

It is just the same picture! Podcast is still comfortable leading, despite being 2nd least watched and have the least numbers of likes and comments! This is no contest, sorry Wargaming - that is BULLSHlT. This is never a contest about a CC wanted to be added by the community!

 

 

 

If only 20% of Jingles subs are interested we would have around 120,000 interested players who want Jingles as an ingame commander! If all of iChase and Flamu (who both made mainly WoWs content) subs are interested we would also get such impressive numbers of 60k resp. 70k people.  There are also ten thousands of pleople who want to see Turry, Flambass, noZoup or even Fara added into the game!

But what do we get? A CC with a channel of 134 subs! WOW! Nothing against them personally - no - but the number of players you would "satisfy" with him as commander ingame are two orders of magnitude smaller then the real big fishes as CCs for this game!

 

 

So, please Wargaming ( @Crysantos @MrConway ) change something about this contest. The current rules are just no fair and plain stupid. This is not a real contest at all. If you want the community to decide about a new added commander then let the one CC win who can attract the most attention with his videos on your channel.

 

[Nechrom]

Absolutely agree.

You can't take subs into account when you give every video the same exposure.

 

What will you do after the first round(s) when all the popular CCs have been eliminated?

What purpose does "The Ring" serve then? Attracting no eyes and no engagement because everyone stopped caring. And whatever you had planned for the resulting commander is just completely wasted before it even begins.

[Miscommunication]

Everyone wants a Jingles commander anyway, so why not just decide based on popular opinion (a community vote)?

 

Who or what is this Warships Podcast anyway? I watch channels such as Jingles, Flamu, Flambass, Yuzral, iChase etc, but I've never heard of this channel before. Why would I want an in-game commander that represents something/someone I know nothing about?

 

 

[thiextar]

couldnt agree more, dividing the points based on subs is completely stupid when you give each video the same amount of exposure by publishing it on the official channel which has 168k subs...

 

Completely skews the results and makes sure right from the beginning that the least popular cc with the least amount of subs and the least amount of people who care about him, and the least interesting, wins...

 

Why in the name of all that is holy, would i care about some dude who i dont know, whos uploaded a grand total of 9 videos, with 134 subs becomes an ingame commander???

 

By using these rules, you are just guaranteeing that we get a completely uninteresting and pointless commander, so gg.

 

Just let the community vote for who we want without dividing by subs.

 

-"bUt IF wE dOnT dIViDe bY sUBs, THeN tHe mOSt pOpuLaR cC wILl jUsT wIN"

 

Yeah, no kidding, thats the point isnt it? Why would you want the most unpopular cc to win? The most popular ccs are the most popular for a reason, they are iconic to the game, they are interesting, or very good, they are naturally funny and/or good at sharing tactical insight. Why the hell wouldnt you want the most popular and most voted for cc to win? What could possibly be better?

 

Just let us vote.

[Aragathor]

Let me just quote myself from the reddit thread:

 

Quote

It's just another event made by WG. What did you expect? Logic and common sense?

This is WG at its finest. This is the pinnacle of their ability. A good idea mangled by the bottomless incompetence of Lesta. If you are surprised then you must be new here.

And I'm very sorry that this is the case, as WoWS deserves better, just as we the community and the CCs deserve better. WG talks big about change and improvement, but they don't change, they continue making avoidable mistakes.

 

8 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Everyone wants a Jingles commander anyway, so why not just decide based on popular opinion (a community vote)?

You know what? I think that the lack of real acknowledgement for CCs is a planned thing for WG, the recent changes notwithstanding.

Fractured Space has had a Jingles commander ever since I heard about the game. Heliborne made a special Jingles skin as a thanks for supporting the game.

WG is making profits from people like him and fail to show gratitude for it. I will only mention SirFoch.

 

4 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Just let us vote.

That would be democracy and direct player input, a big no no for WG.

 

[Sub_Octavian]

Hey guys. Thanks for your opinions and concerns, here and on other platforms/channels.

For now, point is, this is meant to be engagement and funsies activity for you, and informational support for our CCT. Yes, a competition as well, but not hardcore, and a friendly one. So, we're all on the same side here. The problem is that we're doing such activity for the first time and have a lot to learn here. Moreover, I don't think many CCT programs go beyond regular activities and try to do something new and cool. We're trying to. And when you do something new, you're bound to have issues and learn some lessons.

It was important to have some scaling in calculation, because otherwise, no one except Jingles could stand any chance - our CCT channels are too different in sheer numbers, and there are a couple of unquestionable leaders. On the other hand, getting it to "the least popular CCT absolutely wins" or "unsubscribe from your CCT to support him" is surely a stupid situation either. We don't want it to be like this. The Ring concept, ideally, is that our beloved CCT can show off their talent on some neutral ground where their passion and engagement from the fans will be the biggest factor, not just the sheer channel statistics.

Obviously, with current rules, we're risking to fail this goal. So please give us some time to think it through again, and find a good way to fix it.

Cheers!

 

[wilkatis_LV]

11 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

That would be democracy and direct player input, a big no no for WG.

[SteDorff]

Yeh gib Jingles he is doing tanks and ships for so long even the reason why I started ships. He could say something like: incomming torpedo's you Nuuuub and when you sink a ship you can hear his famous laugh. I like Yuro Flamu Notser and iChase Aerroon and others too but well Jingles is Jingles. 

 

Of course they could give out more then one like a first to tird place commander.

[wilkatis_LV]

3 minutes ago, Sub_Octavian said:

It was important to have some scaling in calculation, because otherwise, no one except Jingles could stand any chance - our CCT channels are too different in sheer numbers, and there are a couple of unquestionable leaders.

Could have just let Jingles to win the 1st, do it again and have Flamu win 2nd, and then have a fair competition among others Or just make Jingles and Flamu honorary captains (lets face it - they are the 2 biggest ones), and let others fight it out between themselves

[ColonelPete]

How are we screwed?

This has no effect on me.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

10 minutes ago, Sub_Octavian said:

It was important to have some scaling in calculation, because otherwise, no one except Jingles could stand any chance

 

Because people simply want Jingles to win.

So this is not a solution. Especially not if it excludes Jingles from winning!

 

6 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Could have just let Jingles to win the 1st, do it again and have Flamu win 2nd, and then have a fair competition among others Or just make Jingles and Flamu honorary captains (lets face it - they are the 2 biggest ones), and let others fight it out between themselves

 

Maybe...

[thiextar]

10 minutes ago, Sub_Octavian said:

Hey guys. Thanks for your opinions and concerns, here and on other platforms/channels.

For now, point is, this is meant to be engagement and funsies activity for you, and informational support for our CCT. Yes, a competition as well, but not hardcore, and a friendly one. So, we're all on the same side here. The problem is that we're doing such activity for the first time and have a lot to learn here. Moreover, I don't think many CCT programs go beyond regular activities and try to do something new and cool. We're trying to. And when you do something new, you're bound to have issues and learn some lessons.

It was important to have some scaling in calculation, because otherwise, no one except Jingles could stand any chance - our CCT channels are too different in sheer numbers, and there are a couple of unquestionable leaders. On the other hand, getting it to "the least popular CCT absolutely wins" or "unsubscribe from your CCT to support him" is surely a stupid situation either. We don't want it to be like this. The Ring concept, ideally, is that our beloved CCT can show off their talent on some neutral ground where their passion and engagement from the fans will be the biggest factor, not just the sheer channel statistics.

Obviously, with current rules, we're risking to fail this goal. So please give us some time to think it through again, and find a good way to fix it.

Cheers!

 

Just so that i am clear on this. This means that you will change the rules during this competition right? And they will apply to the first stage aswell?

[FishDogFoodShack]

2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

How are we screwed?

This has no effect on me.

 

Your inability to understand even the most basic concept of empathy and realize that your personal perspective is different from that of an entire community is staggering.

[Sub_Octavian]

5 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Just so that i am clear on this. This means that you will change the rules during this competition right? And they will apply to the first stage aswell?

That means is that the are not happy with the competition right now, because it makes people unhappy, while the intent was to make people happy.

We will discuss the situation, and if it requires to change the rules or even re-launch it - then we will do it.

It's better to stop, think and do it right than to push it further if it's that flawed.

Just give us some time please.

[Uglesett]

Seeing as you're giving all the participants essentially the same exposure (by hosting them on your own channel), the simplest solution would probably be to have a formula of the form (likes + comments)/views. Ignore their individual subscriber numbers altogether, find out which ones produce the most engaging videos.

[thiextar]

1 minute ago, Uglesett said:

Seeing as you're giving all the participants essentially the same exposure (by hosting them on your own channel), the simplest solution would probably be to have a formula of the form (likes + comments)/views. Ignore their individual subscriber numbers altogether, find out which ones produce the most engaging videos.

This right here i like, seems like a good plan, Also have a rule where its not allowed to ask for likes and comments in the videos themselves, but have some uniform wg clarification at the end of the vid telling us that we need to like and comment. Otherwise the videos will just be 50% plea for aid.

[fumtu]

Well i guess the problem is that not all CCs use YT as their primary platform for their content. For example Kelorn (the Warships Podcast) is posting his content on his webpage instead of YT. I think that it is similar with Uocat who is CC from China. And that make WG formula basically unusable in cases like this. I think that they should try to use some other method as this one clearly won't work as intended.

 

Also Jingles already dropped from competition because of problems with connection.

[Aragathor]

13 minutes ago, Sub_Octavian said:

Hey guys. Thanks for your opinions and concerns, here and on other platforms/channels.

For now, point is, this is meant to be engagement and funsies activity for you, and informational support for our CCT. Yes, a competition as well, but not hardcore, and a friendly one. So, we're all on the same side here. The problem is that we're doing such activity for the first time and have a lot to learn here. Moreover, I don't think many CCT programs go beyond regular activities and try to do something new and cool. We're trying to. And when you do something new, you're bound to have issues and learn some lessons.

It was important to have some scaling in calculation, because otherwise, no one except Jingles could stand any chance - our CCT channels are too different in sheer numbers, and there are a couple of unquestionable leaders. On the other hand, getting it to "the least popular CCT absolutely wins" or "unsubscribe from your CCT to support him" is surely a stupid situation either. We don't want it to be like this. The Ring concept, ideally, is that our beloved CCT can show off their talent on some neutral ground where their passion and engagement from the fans will be the biggest factor, not just the sheer channel statistics.

Obviously, with current rules, we're risking to fail this goal. So please give us some time to think it through again, and find a good way to fix it.

Cheers!

 

You could have done a Proof of Concept competition first, instead of going full steam ahead with the current one. Because you are, as a company, investing a lot of resources into a "test".

 

Since you feared Jingles would win hands down, you could have set up the PoC competition by having the community choose a pose for him, pick a uniform, decide whether he would have Boo with him etc.

This would have killed two birds with one stone. First, a Jingles captain, he's out of the future competition but still in the game. Second, you could have experimented with various forms of voting. And it would not have cost you too many resources.

 

PS: I'm very disappointed that the format of the competition excluded @LittleWhiteMouse. Her steady contributions are very helpful to many and she really deserves more credit.

 

 

[thiextar]

4 minutes ago, fumtu said:

Well i guess the problem is that not all CCs use YT as their primary platform for their content. For example Kelorn (the Warships Podcast) is posting his content on his webpage instead of YT. I think that it is similar with Uocat who is CC from China. And that make WG formula basically unusable in cases like this. I think that they should try to use some other method as this one clearly won't work as intended.

 

Also Jingles already dropped from competition because of problems with connection.

 

Honestly, just make jingles (and flamu?) Into commanders anyways, atleast jingles, hes basically the face of this game anyways for a lot of people

 

Then let the rest duke it out.

 

And yeah, as the guy above said, make a series of votes about his special abilitys/characteristics etc etc, to get some engagement

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

@Sub_Octavian

 

You could simply let the contest continue, but add another category "public vote", where people can vote for an additional captain (including Jingles and LittleWhiteMouse).

[principat121]

12 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

(likes + comments)/views

good start

[fumtu]

11 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

PS: I'm very disappointed that the format of the competition excluded @LittleWhiteMouse. Her steady contributions are very helpful to many and she really deserves more credit.

 

I don't think that WG excluded LWM from competition. All contributors in the contest applied for it and I guess that if LWM applied she would be here too. Also she is ST first and then CC so I don't know if this somehow influenced her status in this competition. And she don't have YT content of her-own and all her reviews were posted on shipcomrade which would break WG formula as they will have to divide by zero.

 

What I don't like is the way WG eliminated some other CCs from competition like, Yuzral, Mejash or Lord_Zath, even before that could took part in the actual competition. Hope that WG will learn on their mistakes and improve in the next competitions of this kind.

[159Hunter]

What I don't understand is this: you plan a competition with rules. Yet, nobody at WG considered testing set rules to see if there was na flaw in the calculation method? Seriously?

[orzel286]

Am I the only one who wants Jive Turkey?

[Sigimundus]

9 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

You could have done a Proof of Concept competition first, instead of going full steam ahead with the current one. Because you are, as a company, investing a lot of resources into a "test".

 

Since you feared Jingles would win hands down, you could have set up the PoC competition by having the community choose a pose for him, pick a uniform, decide whether he would have Boo with him etc.

This would have killed two birds with one stone. First, a Jingles captain, he's out of the future competition but still in the game. Second, you could have experimented with various forms of voting. And it would not have cost you too many resources.

 

PS: I'm very disappointed that the format of the competition excluded @LittleWhiteMouse. Her steady contributions are very helpful to many and she really deserves more credit.