Game Modifications: Pros and Cons

[Tuccy]

Captains,

 

As many of you already know, there are various types of modifications (mods) popping up in large numbers since the release of Closed Beta and in some cases, already in Closed Alpha. The mods range in scope and impact from Blue Steel Arpeggio skins through to GUI modifications, and some mods which can raise a lot of passions on the forum.

 

This is not entirely unexpected – after all, the modding community in World of Tanks is very active and we had good reasons to believe that many WoT modders will cross to WoWS as well. This dovetails neatly with the main purpose of Closed Beta Test: to test the game in all aspects, from balance through to user comfort, and also how much will the more inquisitive or ingenious of you manage to break it. 

 

On one hand obviously every mod brings in the threat of breaking something. However the vast majority of mods are clear contributions to the game experience. We often hear suggestions to just make the game non-moddable - but that would not guarantee a determined enough modder won't find some loopholes given enough time and determination, so it won't be 100% prevention of harmful mods, it will just harm the normal modders and the community. the way to go is, instead, to find a way how to be selective in these aspects.

 

On the other hand we definitely do not want mods that harm the game experience for you. However, there are more than one way to proceed and each has benefits and drawbacks that need to be investigated and carefully considered. Similarly, an impact of the mods themselves needs to be evaluated, as often the news about their influence can be over-hyped. 

 

Let's look at the target prediction as an example: The hype is massive! From calling it "autoaim" or "aimbot" - i.e. implying it lets you do something automatically - to rumors that it improves accuracy...etc.

However, the aim prediction doesn't give you anything you don't get after few battles yourself. Even at maximal range, it is extremely easy to score first salvo hits on ships that sail in a straight line and are large, for example battleships. Been there, done that, most of times I do not need to lose time with ranging salvos. And once you have the range, battleships cannot easily dodge, mod or no mod. Against faster, more maneuverable targets, aim prediction does not help much – in fact it may lead to you chasing the mark and missing all the shots, while your opponent would be actually chasing your ship. UNLESS you drive predictably and then, sorry to say, you are dead meat mod or no mod. At mid to shorter ranges, with flat trajectory fire, this tool does not really help in any way, as you have already quite fast feedback as to where your shells are landing and can adjust accordingly, and you should try to go for targets elsewhere than center mass anyway.

 

While aim prediction is a skill, it is not the most crucial one regarding the victory in a WoWS battle, and is also one of the easiest to learn. What is far more crucial and harder is how not to get locked in tunnel vision, how to dodge and where to go on the map. Whoever lacks these may land a few shots more accurately than he would be able to do otherwise, but will also die faster as he will be locked in following a marker Last but not least, RNG works the same for everyone so even with aim prediction and a target moving in a straight line, at max range chances are he will miss completely.

 

This is not to say we do not follow the influence of aim prediction or any other mod out there, but I hope this helps to put the matter into a bit better perspective. The devs are following the statistics and the feedback - and preparing both countermeasures to harmful mods, easier installation of harmless mods... and so on. 

 

Main thing, though... is to stay calm. We are in a test stage, the more we find out now, the more we can prepare for before the next stages of the game. In the spirit of this... we are eager to hear your feedback, but try to keep your passions under control, avoid name calling and ad hominem directed personal attacks against players who do not share your point of view. 

 

With regards

Your WoWs team

 

[Mindfulcrane07]

i personaly would like to see this mod banned ASAP but oh well.

in case you dont know what i am talking about, it is the aiming mod

[vanmax]

I second that!

[Lightbaron]

Get rid of that mod asap!

The only thing it does (except for the huge advantage it gives you at long range) is intoxicating the Community and that's the least we need now.

 

[Exocet6951]

 

However, the aim prediction doesn't give you anything you don't get after few battles yourself. 

 

lol

 

>Implying Fusos would fire a full broadside salvo at 20km and hit 1/2 the shells 90% of the time on the first try in any circumstance other than having a marker.

 

[Bl4ckh0g]

I get it that this aim enchanting mod is not as game breaking as  people think and all, but for the love of god If hundreds upon hundreds( or probably even thousands) of players hate it passionately and make it quite obvious that they certainly do not want this mod to be legal or considered to be part of the game then Why in the Seven burning hells are you not banning the use of this mod? 

[majogl]

However, the aim prediction doesn't give you anything you don't get after few battles yourself. Even at maximal range, it is extremely easy to score first salvo hits on ships that sail in a straight line and are large, for example battleships.

 

While aim prediction is a skill, it is not the most crucial one regarding the victory in a WoWS battle, and is also one of the easiest to learn.

 

No aaand No. What this mod allows you to do is know exactly where to place your first slavo of a game even when firing at extreme range. That is not something you pick up after a Few battles. Not even after 200 battles i posess this skill. And here there are 0 battle nobodies who have this mod doing it for them.

 

And i am sorry but aim prediction NOT CRUCIAL???  LOL? It is the single biggest aspect to efficient gameplay... you can be a brilliant tactitian, not tunnelvisioning, moving across the battlefield just right, but it wouldn´t matter if you cannot shoot straight!

 

This mod in combination with the sauron eye mod makes this into a point-and-click grind fest and i am dismayed that THIS is the standpoint of Wargaming on this issue... RIP good game...

 

P.S.: OFC as are we all, i am talking about the aim assist mod

[Sharana]

Well the other topic in the General Discussionis is overflooded so I give my feedback again.

 

I do NOT want too see this mod after the release under any form - as mod or added ingame. As aiming assistant in coop battles maybe, but not as the point we have now. It should be something like area where you need to make the final tuning yourself in order to hit.

 

I have tested it in trainings, so I can see how it's working and concluded it's gamebreaking for me. After bad experience in the randoms yesterday I even installed it back to play few randoms with it. I was just really frustrated by the fact that player with terrible stats who were not able to hit me for more then 5-10K from <10km before, now hit me for far more from 15+km and you can't dodge everything all the time. Before this mod it was rare to score good hits at long distances and that was reserved for good players, now everyone can do it, point and click game as many have said.

Anyway after using the mod yesterday in my Amagi I can say for sure that my avarage damage just skyrocketed. It's not the point that shooting on the red dot is not always the best thing to do - the fact is this is providing important data which you can use to score far more hits then before. And of course player using it have huge advantage over the player who don't use it.

[arybow]

Same game for all ,;that would be  fair .

 

Fair ?

 

who cares ....

 

 

 

 

 

[Fear_Naught3]

you say it  don't give you anything you don't get  yourself after a few games  lol . it don't matter how many games I play I can not make my guns all hit the same spot in one go like this does, I have been hit a few times  at only a range of 7k by a ship I would norm have killed easy but he hit me 1 volley with every gun none land short or go over or just miss left and right  every round right in center and took all my hp.  how you can say it not a cheat  is daft this mod will be the end of this game  with so many others comeing out that abit harder to play, people will go to them and  not play a game that is just point and kill at close  med range. plus it alrdy makes DDs pointless as they can se thougth smoke

[Hanszeehock]

 

However, the aim prediction doesn't give you anything you don't get after few battles yourself. 

 

Hate to disagree Tuccy but it does. After a few battles you cannot see a ships aiming point before it comes out from behind an island or out of smoke, you can with the mod. You cannot consistently hit the citadel from long range, you can with the mod.

 

For a slow turning ship like the Fuso,it's impossible to avoid the mod equipped enemy, and no fun, battle after battle to lose half your HP in the first 2 minutes. So for now the Fuso stays in Port.

[Addicus]

While aim prediction is a skill, it is not the most crucial one regarding the victory in a WoWS battle, and is also one of the easiest to learn. What is far more crucial and harder is how not to get locked in tunnel vision, how to dodge and where to go on the map. Whoever lacks these may land a few shots more accurately than he would be able to do

 

 

Let's try rereading the above and see if we can find the part where this Mod would give an unfair advantage over a player without the mod...

[Skullcap]

Hows does the aim assist mod not give you a bigger advantage?

 

Yes I agree you learn how to lead targets but the mod gives you real time marker which the current client doesn't even come close to. It keeps up with the server while anyone else who doesn't use the mod would be at a dis-advantage due to being still effected by server sync with client.

 

Its where the modification becomes a grey area, because you are allowing something which the game doesn't have and it gives real time updating rather than what the actual client is telling the player.

 

When I used it to give feedback in the aimbot mod thread in general  with the Amagi I was scoring 7 out of 10 shells on the target at ranges over 15km up to max range of 19.9km. That isn't even possible with the vanilla client, how is that not a crucial difference between using it and not? 7 hits from a Amagi can take off 30k health and one shot cruisers, non-mod I'd be lucky to see 15k removed from a enemy battleship and certainly not outright killing of cruisers over 15km, how is that not considered a advantage?

 

The mod allows for more central ship shell confirmed hits because the real time information it gets is more accurate than what is provided ingame and thus you get more criticals and citadel hits in turn, the mod doesn't automate that process but it sigificantly uprates the chane of it happening. The hitboxes are more likely to happen because the shells are more accurate.

 

This isn't a case like XVM where it provides last know positions or ratings for players, this fundmentally effects how the game play and makes it far easier. It makes BB combat easier and anything with a decent set of guns easier to play to the point where its trivial and doesn't require much skill at all.

 

So what is your stance WG, are you wanting us to use the modification so you can see how big of a impact its having on hit ratio %s and kill ratios or do we not bother with it and continue to struggle against the users who are using the modification?

 

I want to know what I'm supposed to be testing because right now if one part of the crowd has a unfair advantage over the other I cannot give any kind of accurate feedback weather or not the BBs are preforming properly if someones landing shots on me near flush to central ship constantly and killing my ship in 2 or 3 reloads. It gives me the wrong impression that the Agami requires a buff or that my guns are not preforming well but heyho Mr Nagato at 20km is hitting shells on me just fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sunday]

Main problem in this thread is how to post something that does not conform to the opinions of the more vocal part of the forum without acquiring a huge amount of negreps.

 

That said, and after more than 1000 battles in CBT (not very well played, I admit that), all tier VIIs researched and played, and one tier VIII in port , my feels mostly agree with the OP - leading targets at long range is a skill that could be learnt, that is only important for the two ship classes that engage in long range gunnery, namely BBs and, in less measure, cruisers.

 

When the game goes into the market, however, players having that LR gunnery skill should expect a "happy time" of the same order than the U-boats off the US coast in 1942, because new players will need to climb the learning curve of LR gunnery themselves, being quite vulnerable in the meantime. I think that could be a problem for the game, a bit like what happened in WoWP where high tier platoons (i.e. flying jets) of skilled, veteran Beta players used to sweep the skies of newbies (and a newbie is not a noob, allow me to remind that). Then those newbies got frustrated and left the game. I do not know with 100% certainty if I could be looking for the proverbial silver lining, but this lead helper could make the learning curve of LR gunnery less steep. Including this mod on the vanilla client could be thus an easy equalization.

 

Also, in the videos that there are around it could be seen that the prediction of future position of the target is not very precise, as the lead aim only takes in account distance and bearing to the target, and speed and heading of target. I think it does not take in account speed and heading of own ship. And, evidently, it absolutely does not take in account accelerations, nor turn rates. So, as a fire direction computer, it is not very good. However, it could compensate the lack of sophistication on the internal calculations by using extremely accurate information about the magnitudes it does use. This last fact could provide a relatively easy mean of rendering it ineffective, but I should not say no more in this matter.

[Ethlarion]

 

 

No aaand No. What this mod allows you to do is know exactly where to place your first slavo of a game even when firing at extreme range. That is not something you pick up after a Few battles. Not even after 200 battles i posess this skill. And here there are 0 battle nobodies who have this mod doing it for them.

 

And i am sorry but aim prediction NOT CRUCIAL???  LOL? It is the single biggest aspect to efficient gameplay... you can be a brilliant tactitian, not tunnelvisioning, moving across the battlefield just right, but it wouldn´t matter if you cannot shoot straight!

 

This mod in combination with the sauron eye mod makes this into a point-and-click grind fest and i am dismayed that THIS is the standpoint of Wargaming on this issue... RIP good game...

 

P.S.: OFC as are we all, i am talking about the aim assist mod

 

I am really sad to see that you allowing those mods .  as Majogl said you will sunk your game and you will lose a lot of money from preorders since as you saw a lot of people will not buy anything , we dont want mods to aim show where to aim , we want to play this great game .

i want when someone kick my 4ss to say GJ MAN you rocked not wondering if he has the mod ...

 

And yes even with manuever you cant avoid all of them especially when a program will "point" where to fire...

 

 

 

 

 

[Mindfulcrane07]

well atleast we got an official statement from WG so thanks for that even though it did not turn out the way a lot if not all people wantet it to

 

[Rilohn]

1. "On the other hand we definitely do not want mods that harm the game experience for you."

 

2. "However, the aim prediction doesn't give you anything you don't get after few battles yourself. Even at maximal range..."

 

3. "...we are eager to hear your feedback..."

 

1. It does harm it, read the feedback.  #shipjusthappened

 

2. Yes it does, as Hanszee stated above, behind islands the aim mod still works with it's prediction so you can fire "blind".  You say aiming is a skill but don't mind a mod that reduces skill for all and makes everyone the same, so what is the point of skill then?

 

3.  And ignore it apparently.  See answer to 1 above.

 

[majogl]

well atleast we got an official statement from WG so thanks for that even though it did not turn out the way a lot if not all people wantet it to

 

I think the statement can be summarized into 2 words. "Game Over."

[Mindfulcrane07]

 

I think the statement can be summarized into 2 words. "Game Over."

 

well almost atleast a lot of players will leave witch is a shame and also one of the resons why i think they should just ban this mod ASAP

[Ethlarion]

 

 

[Addicus]

Actually I would have felt better if Tuccy had just come out and said, "We're aware of the mods. It's CBT so we're just going to collect data for awhile and see exactly what the impacts are and if anything needs to be done." Instead we get a partial defense of the aim-mod saying, "No big deal - you all should learn how to dodge more."

 

Here's how I would sum up this whole thing:

Testers: "80%+ think this mod is game breaking and needs to be removed"

WG: "How Terrible."

[Carb1de]

(...)

This is not to say we do not follow the influence of aim prediction or any other mod out there, but I hope this helps to put the matter into a bit better perspective. The devs are following the statistics and the feedback - and preparing both countermeasures to harmful mods, easier installation of harmless mods... and so on. 

(...)

 

Just reminding everyone of this. Take this in consideration before making sweeping statements.

[Sehales]

The main issue with mods like the "aim-bot"-mod is that players don't understand how the system works. In other games (especially F2P FPS) you are able to "hack" for getting 100% acccuracy and stuff like this.

This is not possible in WoWs, as said that are only predictions the mod is able to give you.

So even when there are no aim-bots you can be sure there are players complaining about hackers/cheaters, because they just don't know (or don't want to get it) that is just not possible to modify the server side (or at least it is very very very hard to do and wouldn't be worth it, even if you manage to hack the servers...).

[Mindfulcrane07]

 

Just reminding everyone of this. Take this in consideration before making sweeping statements.

 

yes but we are just sayin this to help you because we dont want that many people to leave the game. most of the people in here really burn for this game and want to make it as good as posible and it would just be a shame if it sinks now because of a mod 

dont know if this is a good way to say it but oh well.

[custardSPARTA]

The biggest problem with WOT and mods is WG EU itself they will not publish a banned mods list other regions do, I bet we get the same wishy washy rubbish in WOWS.

 

I really like mods in the game but I would disagree that if this mod does as described it isn't a massive advantage, no I haven't used it.