I'd like to repeat my question: when and why is a ship deemed OP?

[Ferry_25]

Just did a somewhat experiment on this. It's still a total absolute mystery for me. When and why is a ship OP and thus being pulled back from sale???

 

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, Ferry_25 said:

Just did a somewhat experiment on this. It's still a total absolute mystery for me. When and why is a ship OP and thus being pulled back from sale???

 

When it is game dominating most of the time, no matter who plays it. Which applies to no ship in this game.

[wilkatis_LV]

One player being a potato / unicum in a ship changes nothing. It's the overall performance.

 

 

Example:

Most people consider Conq to be OP. Statistically it's one of the worst t10 ships to play. Verdict: annoying, but not OP

 

Example 2:

WG says Giulio Cesare is balanced. Statistically she's doing so good, you can't compare her to any t5 BB, you can't compare her to any tier 6 BB, you can't compare her to most t7 BBs. Only the very best of tier 7 BBs (2 or 3 of them) do better than the GC. Verdict: WG is blind

[invicta2012]

When it is game dominating most of the time, no matter who plays it. Which applies to no ship in this game.

 

Apart from Belfast.

[Aragathor]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

When it is game dominating most of the time, no matter who plays it. Which applies to no ship in this game.

Wouldn't go that far. I'd say that a ship is OP when it skews the balance of teams by its presence in the hands of an average or better player.

Nikolai I wrecks face according to stats, not even Orion managed to match it and never will, after the nerfs.

 

Some ships can stop being OP by the changes in the meta or buffs to other ships. Example Gremyashchy, a ship that is now just a really good premium boat, especially after the turret traverse buffs other RU DDs got.

[ColonelPete]

 

6 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Wouldn't go that far. I'd say that a ship is OP when it skews the balance of teams by its presence in the hands of an average or better player.

Nikolai I wrecks face according to stats, not even Orion managed to match it and never will, after the nerfs.

 

Some ships can stop being OP by the changes in the meta or buffs to other ships. Example Gremyashchy, a ship that is now just a really good premium boat, especially after the turret traverse buffs other RU DDs got.

Every ship having a higher winrate than others does that.

 

@wilkatis_LV

Ships performance does not depend only on ship, but also on players playing her.

If a ship is played by more good and unicum players than other ships, that ship will have better stats, even when average.

We cannot see the player composition for each ship, but WG can.

[Ubertron_X]

A counter-question for you OP: How do you consider balancing should be done? Around the average random player like in WoWs or around the competitive unicum player like in LoL?

 

Answer that and we can continue our discussion about when things are OP...

[invicta2012]

3 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

A counter-question for you OP: How do you consider balancing should be done? Around the average random player like in WoWs or around the competitive unicum player like in LoL

Unicum players need to be shunted off to another game level where they can beat their meat in peace.

[Aragathor]

3 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Unicum players need to be shunted off to another game level where they can beat their meat in peace.

A special game mode named "Slaughterhouse" with the tagline "Try to Beat the Meat!".

[invicta2012]

That would be quite funny.

 

Slaughterhouse: We're so Elite, it hurts to think about it!

[Ferry_25]

Throw the LTP card in my face please. But I still don't get it...

 

[Lebedjev]

Bha comunity want "historical" OP ship and WG agree, where they should instead give us challenge ship to play.

[AnEvilJoke]

1 hour ago, Ferry_25 said:

Just did a somewhat experiment on this. It's still a total absolute mystery for me. When and why is a ship OP and thus being pulled back from sale???

 

"OP" is like "good" or "bad" (ethics) a matter of opinion - a villian is the hero of his own story.

In terms of my opinion on "what is OP":

 

A ship where you as an average player (what I'am in my opinion) can dominate certain if not all aspects of a battle, even only with a minimum of knowledge.

3 examples form myself:

Fiji where I have 53k average Damage with a K/D of 1.21 (52 Battles 60% wins)

Vampire where I have 33k average Damage with a K/D of 1.44 (39 Battles 59% wins)

Or the old 2/0/1 Bogue where I shoot down ~3000 planes in 151 Battles while the recort of most shoot down planes in a single battle is 52, which means I deplaned solo 2 Zuihos and some change...

 

39 minutes ago, Ubertron_X said:

A counter-question for you OP: How do you consider balancing should be done? Around the average random player like in WoWs or around the competitive unicum player like in LoL?

 

Thats the question of questions for every game developer. You can get either sh*t from the "mass" of your playerbase or from the loudest and whiniest part of them.

 

35 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Unicum players need to be shunted off to another game level where they can beat their meat in peace.

 

Where then every random game devolves into a full 20 Minutes Rated/Clan War...

That idea would be very short lived, seeing as unicums are nothing without n00bs/averages they can farm.

[_Bajkal]

I guess this is how a debate in wows balancing team looks like and then we have ships like Monq or torp. buff for Zao or Asashio/Graf Zeppelin.

[lafeel]

Just goes to show what I've been saying since CBT: A ship is only as op as the player behind the wheel.

[MyopicHedgehog]

I'd love to know why the Belfast & Nikolai aren't available for sale when the Flint & Black are available in the Arsenal.  We all know that it's the player that makes most of the difference rather than the ship so the Flint (etc) have to be more of a problem, right...?

[wilkatis_LV]

54 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

@wilkatis_LV

Ships performance does not depend only on ship, but also on players playing her.

If a ship is played by more good and unicum players than other ships, that ship will have better stats, even when average.

Conq is a normal silver ship, released nearly a year ago. It's been long enough for us to have 0 reasons to think that there are more potatoes playing it.

GC is a normal premium, equally available to everyone. There are 0 reasons for us to think that for some reason there are more unicums playing it.

 

It's not some limited edition Flint or Black with heavily skewed stats due to highly skilled players being far more likely to get them, being almost (but not completely) exclusive to them (at least up until the introduction of Arsenal), those are ships equally available to everyone regardless of their skill

[wilkatis_LV]

29 minutes ago, Ferry_25 said:

Throw the LTP card in my face please. But I still don't get it...

 

As I said - 1 player being incapable of doing anything / being unlucky for a day doesn't change anything.

 

Even the 3x unicum CV divisions lose every now and then, there is nothing with a perfect 100% WR. It's the overall deviation from average that you are looking for - and even that has to account for other things (like CVs being forced into mirror matches - for example Midway is heavily dragged towards 50% while doing way batter in general).

 

Also a small deviation, or a short time spike, generally means very little. It's when the ship in question can keep up large enough (lets say over 5%) deviation for a longer time (hence why a ship that is just released is harder to judge than one which hasn't been changed in half-a-year)

My previous example of GC - it has been keeping WR about 9% (initially even more) or more above 50% for over 9 months now (since its release in late-october last year). Similarly for other stats - damge and everything else is and has been through the roof for the last 9 months

 

[wilkatis_LV]

19 minutes ago, MyopicHedgehog said:

I'd love to know why the Belfast & Nikolai aren't available for sale when the Flint & Black are available in the Arsenal.

Flint & Black are not for sale. You can't buy steel.

 

Previously they were preset rewards for ranked, 1 of the 2 "competitive" gamemodes

Now in both "competitive" gamemodes you get steel, and then you use the steel to choose which rewards you want, and which ones you skip.

 

Ad no, lol, Flint isn't even close to Payfast While it's true that there will always be a potato who fails to make the most OP thing to work, if the ship sailed by a useless potato poses as much (or even more) threat as another ship of the same class and tier, but sailed by a far better player, there's your problem. That, or in the case of Payfast & Black - the broken ability to carry smoke and radar at the same time on one ship (altho with the smoke changes it's somewhat dissipated as the resulting spotting ability was given to all DDs and CLs at even greater ranges).

[Chaos_Umbra]

Some people are blind though and if they see that the ship is a premium it must be OP, tonight I was told that the Boise was OP by someone raging on the other team... despite what it gives up compared to the Helena for the faster turret traverse and heal...

 

I am not doubting that some Premiums are OP, but quite a lot actually give something up for their strengths, and while in competent hands the GC is OP if sailed by an incompetent that is used to sailing broadside in BBs and no be punished will find the ship bad despite all of its ridiculous strengths, this might be why is hasn't been removed and it was even buffed after release as the Torpedo damage reduction was increased.

[_ramrus_]

OP ships make dealing damage easy, or hold advantage that is easily exploitable.

Usually several factors combine into it.

[loppantorkel]

@Ferry_25 Was it an experiment from the start or did you name it an experiment after a failed seal-club attempt. Anyone can end up with a losing streak in those ships, but the streaks aren't experiments if you pick and choose the streaks in retrospect.

 

OP ships: Overall stats too good, or too high carry potential meaning there aren't enough counters in the game.

[Boris_MNE]

5 hours ago, Ferry_25 said:

Just did a somewhat experiment on this. It's still a total absolute mystery for me. When and why is a ship OP and thus being pulled back from sale???

 

 

 

Its not because what you said, but because of your ability to carry team. :D :D :D

[ColonelPete]

4 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Conq is a normal silver ship, released nearly a year ago. It's been long enough for us to have 0 reasons to think that there are more potatoes playing it.

GC is a normal premium, equally available to everyone. There are 0 reasons for us to think that for some reason there are more unicums playing it.

Premiums  are played usually be better players (with some exceptions). Three years of comparing premiums with silver ships or their silver twins show that.

[evp66]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Premiums  are played usually be better players (with some exceptions). Three years of comparing premiums with silver ships or their silver twins show that.

Really?I was thinking it just other way.For example everybody with zero experience can buy Tirpiz but you need to have some experience to get bismarc.So mabe those beginners dont buy so much premiums.