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__Helmut_Kohl__

[How to:] Play around RADAR

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[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
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Good topic.

You should add, however :

- Which type of DD are you ? Stop rushing inside caps with a Shimakaze, even if there's no radar, you still have to compete with DD gunboats.

- Preferably, if there are a lot of radar ship, go for the open water caps.

  • A and B in Mountain Range, B being the safest choice.
  • A or B in North, or the edge of C (B is easy to radar but offer few firing angle depending on where the radar ship is, just adapt to it, and don't hug the island at A).
  • Middle cap in HotSpot, or just ignore the caps in the case of the four caps ver of the map. 
  • Edge of the caps in Two Brothers, preferably the West one
  • Any in Tears of the Desert
  • Middle cap in Land of Fire
  • etc.

The point is to either make you difficult to rush without overextending, or impossible to shot at (depending on the cover available), or simply too far for the standard radar ship sweet spots. And don't forget torpedoes may be incoming either.

 

- Don't think capturing the base at the beginning is absolutely necessary. Sure, it gives you an edge over the enemy team. But dying inside the cap at the beginning is even worse than not capturing it. DDs are monsters in endgame, stay alive.

- Many radar cruiser succumb to the temptation of rushing a DD. I've seen tons of Baltimore, Seattle or DM overextending to get the kill and getting killed as a result. Use it to your advantage. Force the enemy to tunnel vision on you.

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[OGHF]
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this will help as well, think most ships are on it, if not let me know & I will get it updated.

RADAR CHART.xls

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Good topic, 

 

I would add:

 

-ask friendly radar cruisers to support you at the cap (place crosshair on him, press f5)

- know relevant ship infos (radar ranges and durations, dd speeds)

- in case you are flanking, expect an enemy dd to do the same. Try to deny him the area and be mindful of if you can kill or outrun him. Don't charge and pay attention to rpf. 

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[ADRIA]
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Finally, a constructive "Radar topic". Well written and well explained. We definitively could use more "how to" posts that work around the "problem" rather than straight forward "it's too difficult, remove the problem"

 

:Smile_honoring:

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17 minutes ago, quickr said:

Finally, a constructive "Radar topic". Well written and well explained. We definitively could use more "how to" posts that work around the "problem" rather than straight forward "it's too difficult, remove the problem"

 

:Smile_honoring:

Well, so far I have uploaded 6 dd games in which I explain my decision making for those who are interested. Next up will be the Yueyang, being that Shima and Gearing are finished. It will take me some time to complete the series as I have a lot of rl obligations atm, but being that those are just solo random games in direct succession I thought it might help. 

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4 minutes ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Well, so far I have uploaded 6 dd games in which I explain my decision making for those who are interested. Next up will be the Yueyang, being that Shima and Gearing are finished. It will take me some time to complete the series as I have a lot of rl obligations atm, but being that those are just solo random games in direct succession I thought it might help. 

 

Can you link it here ? (if it is relevant to the radar issue)

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2 hours ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

Can you link it here ? (if it is relevant to the radar issue)

Will do so once I'm on the PC and not the mobile. It is relevant only in so far, as I display the tactics that make me successful and debate good and bad targets. I also potato quite a bit in the Gearing, but explain my mistakes as well (gloriously thinking I'm going up against an Iowa when in fact it's a Missouri.  Awareness/10 would sink again).

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Adding the Yueyang games: Game 1 and 2 were catastrophic, but then again this is not intended to be a highlight show.

 

 

 

 

 

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[XTREM]
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reading this guide will kill you in randoms. so inaccurate...

 

See enemy has radar?
Rush in cap and get it before he has time to activate radar. ???? Profit profit.

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[OSC]
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1 hour ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

After playing Ranked and ClanWars at the highest level in DDs myself, I feel quite comfortable around enemy radar ships.

I noticed, that especially new players find it difficult to deal with enemy radar, once they reach high tier destroyers.

 

Maybe experienced players can take a few minutes and share their tactics here, so that new players have a chance to improve.

I will make the start:

 

 

[How to:] Play around RADAR

 

 

----------------------  TLDR;  ---------------------

General rules:

 

#1:  Always have a way out!

#2:  Radar is only dangerous if you are too close to the enemy team!

#3:  Stay with your fire-support! Don't go off to a cap alone!

__________________________________
 

 

Phase 1: Assessing the Situation

 

How many radar ships does the enemy team have?

 

  • If you do not know all the radar ships yet, you can expect all USN and Russian cruisers at T8-10 to carry radar.
  • USN radar range is around 9.9 km and Russian range is 11.7 km.
  • There are of course more radar ships and it is important that you learn all the ships and their radar stats at some point, but this little information will already get you very far.

 

 

Phase 2: Approaching the Cap

 

First you need to make sure that you will have fire-support at your cap.

Many DD players go off to a cap alone and die instantly, blaming their team for not supporting them.

There is no excuse for that. You are the fastest ship – if you see your team not going to the cap that you want, be flexible and go where they go instead.

 

The more radar ships there are, the more likely it will be for you to get radared, as soon as you start capping.
The worst thing you can do, is just pushing into the cap with no way out.

 

 

If chances are, that there should be not more than 1 radar at your cap, you can try to bait it and come back after the radar is out: 

 

  • To bait it, you go into the cap sideways, slightly at the edge of it and facing outwards, ready to run away into the right direction.
  • If you get radared, you immediately go out while changing course left-and-right to be harder to hit. You can even look back and actively evade BB-salvos.
  • DO NOT SMOKE - you will stay radared, but the enemy will be unspotted.
  • Radars will run 20-50 sec, and after that you will have 2 minutes before the next radar.

 

 

If there are many radar ships and you expect multiple radars at your cap, you should not try to cap instantly. Stay around the cap and spot them, so your team can shoot them.

 

  • Most ships can be spotted at the edge of their radar range.
    Just spot them and get out of their radar again, you will not have any problems at that distance.
    Instead they will shoot and stay spotted for your team to shoot them in return.
     
  • Getting radared through islands or meeting ships that can radar further than their spotting range, is also not a problem, if you keep distance from the enemy ships that could shoot you.
    Without fire-support close by, no radar ship will be able to kill you, if you spot them in the open and turn away immediately.
     
  • What kills you is sailing close to enemy BBs, not expecting a sudden radar.
  • What kills you is sailing around corners, not expecting an enemy radar ship.
  • What kills you is sailing straight towards a radar ship, so that you can't turn away quickly.
  • What kills you is sitting in your smoke on a silver platter, with radar ships around.

 

 

Phase 3: Staying aware

 

  • Activate the "last known positions of enemy ships" on your minimap and keep an eye on the positions of the enemy radar ships.
    As long as you don’t let them catch you at close-range, or while you are close to other enemy ships, you will be safe.
     
  • Again, if you stay at 10-12 km from the enemy team, you can always get out of their radar without taking too much damage.
  • You can even spot them and bait their radar/their shots.
  • The key is to always expect radar and have a way out!

 

 

 

 

Please share your tactics to deal with enemy radar ships below.

 

@MrConway @Crysantos maybe you can make this sticky, for others to share their tactics? would be appreciated.

No. Radar is insta I win button. It needed to be nerfed. You lie. Nobody can survive radar

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Next in the series of [HOW TO:] radar.

 

Minotaur/YY radar troll: How to utterly wreck a DD trying to play around radar.

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4 minutes ago, creamgravy said:

Next in the series of [HOW TO:] radar.

 

Minotaur/YY radar troll: How to utterly wreck a DD trying to play around radar.

 

That will not happen if you stay aware and keep distance, as long as there can be radar around.

 

A Minotaur can hardly damage you, once you angle away from him, especially at distance.

It is (again) getting too close that can kill you.

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[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
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As for YY, it's still a 17 seconds radar. Even for a ship with such a gun DPM, it's not that hard to run away from it. Radar YY mostly punishes smoke campers.

 

It's more dangerous in CB, that I agree with, but all kind of spotting is dangerous in CBs.

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9 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

As for YY, it's still a 17 seconds radar. Even for a ship with such a gun DPM, it's not that hard to run away from it. Radar YY mostly punishes smoke campers.

 

24 seconds, but it comes down to not getting too close to the enemy team again.

Same with getting surface-spotted by DDs.

 

Most DDs that die fast, are simply too aggressive and run into too much firepower.

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Just now, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

A Minotaur can hardly damage you, once you angle away from him, especially at distance.

 

Radar trolls shouldn't be shooting, stay hidden and let all those hungry TX snipers with nothing else in range do all the damage.
 

WG balanced DDs to be the scout class with close range weapons. Time for a rethink?

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[POI--]
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5 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

It's more dangerous in CB, that I agree with, but all kind of spotting is dangerous in CBs.

It is a Killer in Cw,

However Radar at the end of the day is only as strong as the as the ships shooting the Target that has been lit up are. If the Radar reveals a Stealth ship and you cannot take advantage of the Radar usage and kill the ship in that Radar up time, then whatever got away now has a time period where he can do what he wants with freedom. His position may be compromised but with Small ships they can relocate and are probably already doing so while Radar is active.

 

I personally couldn't care about Radar since at the end of the day, if the Heavy Radar Meta changes people will find a way to complain about the new Meta too, 

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[AEDL]
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I dont know If people are playing different than before even if there is no radars or very fev of them.This screenshot is from today.I lost all my support in that cap and there was no more possible to win when all other ships were hiding behind islands(and that fact that we were loosing by point anyway).When nothing to do I attack enemy Gearing with my Grozo and we both died.In that game it was only 1 radar(if yeyang didnt have it).It is very boring when you try your best and team just dont help you...and it is normal today.It has been always but today even more.Today 7 games...pr 1424 and damage 47391.Still wr 14,29 same as  I was survived...normally I died in very end of game doing suiside attack when there was nothing to loose.

 

shot-18.07.25_12.40.51-0480.jpg

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[POP]
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Reverse everywhere. When you get radared, gun it to flank speed ahead.

 

Back at the port count collected reports from the last game and choose a different ship class to the next game.

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[RONIN]
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Regarding caps;

There are 3 "types" of cap;

-Open water

-Sheltered

-Fish in a barrel.

 

Open water caps have nothing in them, and nothing near them. Okinawa C is a good example. These allow you to have the advantage spotting any incoming radar ships. These caps are a good choice against radar ships that have a detection higher than their radar range e.g. Missouri/Des Moines. These caps are dangerous against radar ships that have a detection lower than radar range as these ships can get the jump on you, with there nowhere for you to hide.

Point of note though is that the ships that can radar further than their own detection tend to be the squishier ones, and they tend to shy away from open water caps due to there being nowhere for them to hide.

 

Sheltered caps are those that have a land mass in them that is big enough for you to wedge yourself in against. This could be an island, or a spur of land sticking into it. This means it doesn't matter that you get radared, because they can't actually shoot you. The offset is that because you are wedged against an island you rely on your team to provide vision, particularly if it becomes contested. If people can chain radars, or move up a hydro destroyer then you can remain "stuck" there for quite a while. The main danger here is that your team simply runs off, leaving you unable to disengage and becoming overrun. These are an alright choice if you trust your teammates. These are also a good choice if the only thing near the cap is a single enemy radar - you can simply wait out the radar behind the island.

 

Fish in the barrel caps are the real danger caps - these are the ones that have nothing in them, but land mass surrounding them (e.g. sea of fortune C). These allow radar ships to approach unseen, and nowhere for you to hide when radared. These caps require a decent amount of scouting first so know if there's a radar there or not. Alternatively they can be capped if there is heavy team presence that pushes back the enemy, or late in the game when the enemy has been thinned out. If in doubt, these caps are probably worth ignoring and focussing on a different cap.

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[WG-EU]
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Nice to see some different discussion around the radar topic.

 

Feel free to do a summary post in the newcomer section and link it to me - would be worth a pin!

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[SM0KE]
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Excellent thread - thanks to all offering good advice! +1 all round!

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[ITR]
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Great!
The way I learned the most on how to not get radar-o-deleted was playing the radar ships myself.

Some people out there really know what they're doing, I observed them and tried to replicate their survival behaviour :)

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[AEDL]
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There is a lot how to survive,but how to get your personal rating and wr going up again...

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14 minutes ago, evp66 said:

There is a lot how to survive,but how to get your personal rating and wr going up again...

 

If you stay alive (don't hide though), you will usually get a good WR and also good XP.

 

DDs get much stronger at the end of the battle, when there are less ships.

Also you get quite good XP for capping and damaging enemy DDs already.

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