Cleveland out of place at tX?

[ThinderChief]

It's the second time i take out one of these, guns only from max range, with my Shimakaze, not only i can dodge their shells (i didn't smoke fire in both case or i wouldn't mention it) but i set them on fire and cause damage to them faster than the opposite.

 

Doesn't this defeat the purpose of fitting it with a radar and throw it in tX games which are by far the most competitive?

 

Cleveland was good at lower tiers, i use to play it a lot in Op games, but at tX Random, i won't even consider. it's slow for a light cruiser, which should be trading weight/armour for speed but no, it's sluggish, shell velocity and ballistics aren't good enough to insure consistently hitting a maneuvering DD from mid to long range, a Shima, gun only can pile up enough damage to deplete those 30,600 HP and survive the engagement, especially if they park them around the corner of an island to radar other DDs.

 

So what gives? Haven't W.G pushed it too far with this sip?

 

Your opinion?

[RenamedUser_92906789]

It used to be a keeper-ship. Now its just a grind-and-sell-ship. WG wants you to grind and progress and not farm an OP ship to eternity like we used to do with good'ol Cleveland.

[Kenliero]

I personally think Cleveland is very good at where it is. My grind was pleasure. I had even better results than I had in T6.

[StringWitch]

Kinda weird they didn't put Helena at T8 instead, with Cleveland at T7, based on gun count instead of modernity. They did for Budyonny/Schors.

[Exocet6951]

2 hours ago, ThinderChief said:

Cleveland was good at lower tiers

 

What an understatement...
 

[ollonborre]

I think the Cleveland don't fair any worse than any other tier 8 cruiser in tier 10. Playing it like a tier 6 Cleveland and abusing the terrain works just as well on tier 8 as it did on tier 6. And since it now has every standard cruiser consumable pretty much the utility is just fantastic.

 

The Cleveland is a keeper, and I predict it will be a go to ship in tier 8 Ranked.

[Asakka]

Well what about mogami in t10. because that seems much worse. Cleveland has atleast good arcs and radar 

[N00Boo7]

I have  66% win rate with it after 15 games, with a 10 point commander and not even fully upgrated and i am an average player.( i run IFHE, not concealment). Cleveland at t8 is just fine like it is now.

[ShinGetsu]

It's completely OP now. It was already OP at tier 6, and it's not any worse in tier 8.

If you can't make it work, just forget grinding Worcester. It has the exact same weaknesses.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

I didnt say its bad. I only said its not OP as it used to be.

 

Hell I  abused the ship heavily in Aegis and there is no other ship like that anymore at T6 (hint: lack of AA).

 

In before the change I even made a vid to demonstrate how silly the abuse was (commander xp grind):

 

Spoiler

 

 

I know I know ... some might say ... nothing special, but the bulk of the players (99%) was not aware just how this crap was strong for operations abuse.

[Episparh]

It is just tier 8 in a tier 10 battle. 

#VoteForTier9Tier10MMOnly

#VoteForOneTierDiffMM

[RAHJAILARI]

Yeah, well any tier 8 cruiser will struggle in a tier 10 match for sure so that's not a surprise, as such. I somehow gots myself a Cleveland too despite of never having owned one (I originally free-XP'd directly to Des Moines just to get a tier 10 Cruiser, so perhaps that's how/why it happened now) but I have not played her much. However I can see how she would struggle a bit, when bottom-tier. I do prefer Mogami in such situations, at the least she CAN become a stealth-torpedo.boat of sorts, when needed.

[VC381]

If you sank a Cleveland with Shima guns only the problem was with the Cleveland captain not the ship. T8 Cleveland is fantastic, but I guess not for everyone.

[WeGreedy]

There are many bad players in this game, but only some bad ships.

Hint: Cleveland is not one of them.

[ThinderChief]

3 hours ago, ollonborre said:

I think the Cleveland don't fair any worse than any other tier 8 cruiser in tier 10. Playing it like a tier 6 Cleveland and abusing the terrain works just as well on tier 8 as it did on tier 6. And since it now has every standard cruiser consumable pretty much the utility is just fantastic.

 

The Cleveland is a keeper, and I predict it will be a go to ship in tier 8 Ranked.

 

Against tX give me a Budyonny any time, the difference in shell velocity, ballistics and HP will not allow a Shima to win a line of sight gun only fight against it, i play both, i'm 100% sure of this.

 

1 hour ago, SeeteufeI said:

There are many bad players in this game, but only some bad ships.

Hint: Cleveland is not one of them.

 

You did not get the point; i never said it was a bad ship far from it, only moving it in a mm category where it will face tX is a step too many.

[ShinGetsu]

Lol.

 

Guess Des Moines is a bad ship too ? Terrible gun arcs and same 15.8 base range as Cleveland ?

[WeGreedy]

8 minutes ago, ThinderChief said:

You did not get the point; i never said it was a bad ship far from it, only moving it in a mm category where it will face tX is a step too many.

Okay, then why do you name explicitly Cleveland? Hows Mogami, Chapayev, Hipper, Edinburgh etc different in a tier ten game?

[EdiJo]

23 minutes ago, ThinderChief said:

You did not get the point; i never said it was a bad ship far from it, only moving it in a mm category where it will face tX is a step too many.

How dare you suggesting that being 2 tiers lower can at all be "a step too many"?! 

People here will convince you that everything is fine with +/-2 MM and they do great in their selected and/or premium boats when -2 tiered!

 

[ThinderChief]

2 hours ago, VC381 said:

If you sank a Cleveland with Shima guns only the problem was with the Cleveland captain not the ship. T8 Cleveland is fantastic, but I guess not for everyone.

 

The problem is with the Cleveland guns: 140m dispertion vs 100m, 812 m/s vs 915 m/s, the only aspect Cleveland is better are HE shell damage; 2.200 vs 1800 and fire chance 12% stock vs 7%.

 

That said, from Shima at max range at 13. 37km, your shells are easy to dodge while you do not have the speed, maneuvrability not to take more damage than a maneuvring Shima, so i guaranty you that i would shew you up the same way, especially if you play it camping stocked behind an island like most of you do.

 

And something else, i always engage from max range when i do that, and i pit my 46% hit ratio in my Shima vs your 31% in your Cleveland any time, your better win rate won't save you...

[ThinderChief]

16 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Lol.

 

Guess Des Moines is a bad ship too ? Terrible gun arcs and same 15.8 base range as Cleveland ?

 

Des Moines doesn't melt so easily, been sarcastic doesn't make you right.

 

13 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

Okay, then why do you name explicitly Cleveland? Hows Mogami, Chapayev, Hipper, Edinburgh etc different in a tier ten game?

 

I just answered this question. Guns. If i see a Budyonny, i won't even try, and i play all 3 ships. or rather use to play Cleveland. Not anymore, i don't play radar ships and even less Cleveland vs tX.

[pra3y]

I find it ok.  I just try to not put myself into a situation where I can't escape from. 

[ShinGetsu]

1 minute ago, ThinderChief said:

 

The problem is with the Cleveland guns: 140m dispertion vs 100m, 812 m/s vs 915 m/s, the only aspect Cleveland is better are HE shell damage; 2.200 vs 1800 and fire chance 12% stock vs 7%.

 

That said, from Shima at max range at 13. 37km, your shells are easy to dodge while you do not have the speed, maneuvrability not to take more damage than a maneuvring Shima, so i guaranty you that i would shew you up the same way, especially if you play it camping stocked behind an island like most of you do.

 

And something else, i always engage from max range when i do that, and i pit my 46% hit ratio in my Shima vs your 31% in your Cleveland any time, your better win rate won't save you...

Gun dispersion is tied to max range... 140m at 15.8km means around 8.9 meters per kilometers. (Not exactly since it's not 0m at 0m, but let's go with that for the sake of the comparison)

100m at 13.37km means 7.5m per km. It's very similar. And cruiser dispersion is very small in the first place, with 2.0 sigma on top.

 

A Shimakaze winning a gun duel against a Cleveland only means the Cleveland player is a moron. That's all there's to it. Tier 8 Cleveland is a monster.

 

Gotta love how you also completely disregard the difference of DPM, total HP and armor scheme. Shimakaze 127 can't penetrate 25mm with HE unless you're stupid enough to take IFHE on a torpedoboat.

[WeGreedy]

5 minutes ago, ThinderChief said:

I just answered this question. Guns. If i see a Budyonny, i won't even try, and i play all 3 ships. or rather use to play Cleveland. Not anymore, i don't play radar ships and even less Cleveland vs tX.

Well.. as others already said, each ship has it's own streghts and weaknesses. Cleveland can lob shells over islands from cover. An open water gunfight at range versus a Budyonny with flat arcs is not optimal.

If you don't like that playstyle even Worcester won't make you happy, I guess.

[ThinderChief]

Just now, ShinGetsu said:

Gun dispersion is tied to max range... 140m at 15.8km means around 8.9 meters per kilometers. (Not exactly since it's not 0m at 0m, but let's go with that for the sake of the comparison)

100m at 13.37km means 7.5m per km. It's very similar. And cruiser dispersion is very small in the first place, with 2.0 sigma on top.

 

I'm well aware of that it still mean at 13km dispertion is going to be higher.

 

Quote

A Shimakaze winning a gun duel against a Cleveland only means the Cleveland player is a moron. That's all there's to it. Tier 8 Cleveland is a monster.

 

Gotta love how you also completely disregard the difference of DPM, total HP and armor scheme. Shimakaze 127 can't penetrate 25mm with HE unless you're stupid enough to take IFHE on a torpedoboat.

 

Thanks for the lecture and the usual i'm better chest banging but you also miss the point, i doubt very much that you'd be doing much better, i wonder how many time you killed a Shimakaze this way under the same circumstances, my guess is a big ZERO, and i reiterate, i knew where he was, he was camping (which is what 99% of you do with this hip) and couldn't use all his guns.

 

Again you can't hit it as often as it does and if you try showing a little broadside, the Shima will laugh at you, the bigger the target, the better.

 

Wait until a Shima Captain catch you camping and set you on fire repeatedly while you try to hit it, your DPM implies hitting the target, you won't be able to do that against a Shima who knows how to engage you.

[ThinderChief]

2 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

Well.. as others already said, each ship has it's own streghts and weaknesses. Cleveland can lob shells over islands from cover. An open water gunfight at range versus a Budyonny with flat arcs is not optimal.

If you don't like that playstyle even Worcester won't make you happy, I guess.

 

No radar ship makes me happy to be honest.

 

But there are circumstances where you need to use islands, the presence of BBs is a good one, we are drifting away from the original post here, what i was saying is that caught camping this way on a Cleveland, 30.600 HP, low maneuvrability, if you're engaged from the front you're cooked faster than you can cause damage, i wouldn't even consider trying vs a Budyonny.

 

I know the ships that causes me problems and at tX, Cleveland guns are not one of them, only her radar.