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Nautical_Metaphor

New challenging game modes

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Hi,

this could basically go into the suggestions thread where new game modes have been suggested at various points already. However, that thread has grown very long and I'd like to channel the issue into a separate thread for stronger focus. This is because I think it might be an interesting alternative to keep the game fresh and interesting and secure the revenue stream for Wargaming, rather than adding more and more ships, and gimmicks, and gimmicky ships, with all the power creep and other problems that entails, and short of developing that completely new game engine that will probably become inevitable at some point.

 

First idea: some kind of "total combat" game mode where players can compete in ships of any tier and type, so you basically have a ten-tier matchmaking spread. Allow any kind of fail divisions, maybe even allow  more than three players to a division. In return though, performance rewards should be coupled extremely strongly to the tier difference in this mode, e.g. the more tiers a ship you damage is above yours, the more xp / credits / whatever you gain. And vice versa. You could even give really coveted material rewards for really difficult achievements, like damaging a certain high percentage of say a five-tier higher ship. Or something. It might not be the best idea to throwing the Matchmaking completely out of the window because there'd be a chance of frequent, very high team imbalance. Then again, imbalance is sort of the whole point. I haven't fully thought this through. Maybe introduce some kind of algorithm where the sum of tier x ship number needs to be equal on both teams. Or limit the spread to five tiers. Or combine it with the Operations mode so the scenario is known and you can sign up with whatever ship you deem best. Or something.

 

Next idea: PvPvE scenarios, where you have two teams of players fighting each other for more intricate tactical goals than in Standard or Domination mode. Basically this would be Operations with an enemy team of (mostly) real players instead of bots.

 

Next up: (More) "Realistic Combat". You don't need to give up all the arcade elements for this. You can still retain the hit points bar. Just disabling target locking would be a good start. Also having no torpedo reloads, or at least not more than a single one per game, which takes maybe about ten minutes. Also no planes strafing other planes, but fighter planes being able to strafe surface ships instead. And  also maybe - I don't know how easy or difficult it would be to do this - disable gun stabilisation, i.e. have the sight sway as the ships hits waves, leans over in turns, leans over as broadsides are fired. Have the sight picture blurr and shake when volleys are released. Again, to incentivise players of many skill levels to try this, the rewards should be really tempting, maybe even include <gasp> doubloons here. Edit: And again, maybe combine this with some kind of PvE or PvPvE element.

 

 

Edited by Nautical_Metaphor
added idea to third suggestion
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56 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

First idea: some kind of "total combat"

Play tier 10 or you are inferior. Even ships OP in their tier (like GC or Payfast) would be complete garbage bcuz now they'd be fighting 10s constantly. Would never catch on

 

59 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Next idea: PvPvE scenarios

Wasn't WG already testing something similar to this?

 

1 hour ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Next up: (More) "Realistic Combat"

LO3Eeps.png

 

1 hour ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Just disabling target locking would be a good start

Except that it's a rather important game mechanic. Try shooting some people unlocked, you'll surely notice how much bigger your dispersion becomes (2x bigger? Maybe even more)

 

1 hour ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Also having no torpedo reloads, or at least not more than a single one per game, which takes maybe about ten minutes. Also no planes strafing other planes, but fighter planes being able to strafe surface ships instead.

Is this "muh realizm" argument? Where you pick and choose which parts of reality you like and which you don't?

  • Why would torps be the only ones affected by inability to reload? Especially if some ships (IJN DDs) are completely built around having them. Also IJN ships did carry some reloads IRL
  • That strafing just sounds like...
    • vs planes - "I can't play CV so please remove everyone elses ability to do so"
    • vs ships - biggest potential noobtrap in the game

Also torps having "no reload" would mean torps would need massive buffs so they are still usable. Something along the lines of you can't see them until they hit you combined with 1...2 hits = any ship destroyed

 

Anyway, this just wouldn't work

 

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45 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Wasn't WG already testing something similar to this?

 

You mean Bastion? Because that was a brilliant idea:cap_book:

 

Well the idea was not bad, just the implementation (so WG business as usual then).

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Vor 51 Minuten, wilkatis_LV sagte:

Play tier 10 or you are inferior. Even ships OP in their tier (like GC or Payfast) would be complete garbage bcuz now they'd be fighting 10s constantly.

Possibly, but you'd lose shitloads of credits in each game played in a T X because changed reward mechanics and you can at max damage ships your own tier.

 

[Realism mode]

LO3Eeps.png

 

Well, that's still a very ugly game, the PoV gives me headaches, and the biggest ship seems at present to be the Emden. Although it apparently looks gigantic because of that extreme close-up PoV they chose with that creepy wide angle FoV. It will catch up eventually but I think WoWs has a chance to remain competitive for longer without a new engine if they correct their marketing course away from gimmicks and power creep.

 

[Target lock]

Zitat

Except that it's a rather important game mechanic. Try shooting some people unlocked, you'll surely notice how much bigger your dispersion becomes (2x bigger? Maybe even more)

 

I've managed to teamkill more than enough people without it. I think it's worth a try.

 

Zitat

Is this "muh realizm" argument? Where you pick and choose which parts of reality you like and which you don't?

It's where, as I explained, you try to introduce a degree of extra realism without developing a completely new engine and still retain a fun game, not try to turn it into a simulation or anything. In an optional game mode that players may or may not choose. You could even make it seasonal, like Ranked or Space Battles.

 

  • Zitat

    Why would torps be the only ones affected by inability to reload? Especially if some ships (IJN DDs) are completely built around having them. Also IJN ships did carry some reloads IRL

     

Because torp spamming is the grossest and most absurd deviation from history in the game besides plane strafing. Yes, they did carry reloads, and loading a 2.7 ton torpedo into a launcher with nothing but men and a winch is just not something you can accomplish in a few minutes. Maybe on a submarine where they were stored right behind the fixed tube in a ready rack, idk. Even that would take minimum 15 to 20 minutes per fish is my guess.

  • Zitat

     

    • That strafing just sounds like...
      • vs planes - "I can't play CV so please remove everyone elses ability to do so"

     

See above. It's just plain absurd utter nonsense. That's not remotely how aerial combat worked. Which reminds me that AA gunnery should also be modified in a realism mode, so your own planes are also at risk when flying through a cloud of your own flak.

Zitat
  • vs ships - biggest potential noobtrap in the game

I don't know what that means.


 

Zitat

 

Also torps having "no reload" would mean torps would need massive buffs so they are still usable.

 

 

 

Or you could just reward DDs more for support tasks.

 

Zitat

Anyway, this just wouldn't work

Keep telling yourself that.

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7 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Possibly, but you'd lose shitloads of credits in each game played in a T X because changed reward mechanics and you can at max damage ships your own tier.

You would be fighting other 10s almost exclusively, bcuz noone, apart from some trolls, would be dumb enough to voluntarily put their lower tier ships into that. Same as in randoms right now - prem acc and / or perma camo and you are printing credits with your 10s

 

Also "fighting ships of max your tier" - bcuz 10s right now can fight ships of higher tiers?

 

11 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Well, that's still a very ugly game, the PoV gives me headaches, and the biggest ship seems at present to be the Emden. Although it apparently looks gigantic because of that extreme close-up PoV they chose with that creepy wide angle FoV.

Better graphics make WT in general better looking. Then again, seeing what they have done with WoT I'm sure than in the future WoWS will get some amazing HE reskins aswell.

As for size - in WoWS all ships are scaled about 2.6 times bigger. Pretty sure there's no such scaling in WT, hence the world is bigger. Also maps sizes and so on

 

10 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

It will catch up eventually but I think WoWs has a chance to remain competitive

WoWS is and will be the better arcade game. They will never beat WT in their realism mode. As simple as that

 

13 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

I've managed to teamkill more than enough people without it.

Point blank or at actual combat ranges?

 

14 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Because torp spamming is the grossest and most absurd deviation from history in the game besides plane strafing.

Matter of an opinion. I see it as ok as the fact that BBs, for example, in wows have 10x (if not more) higher accuracy (hit rates) than IRL. Everything is adjusted for gameplay & game balance.

As I said - if you want realistic "1 torp = kill, but I can't reload" jsut go for WT realistic / simulator battles, whenever the navy becomes available for everyone

 

17 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Yes, they did carry reloads, and loading a 2.7 ton torpedo into a launcher with nothing but men and a winch is just not something you can accomplish in a few minutes.

Knowing the range to your target, identification of the target, his more-or-less exact heading, more than good enough guess on his speed, in-built aim assist which halves your vertical aim inaccuracies, ability to hit target on 1st salvo every time, and 10x higher accuracy aren't historical either, are they now?

 

20 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

That's not remotely how aerial combat worked.

And this is not a historical simulator

 

20 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

I don't know what that means.

I wonder why :Smile_trollface:

 

21 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Or you could just reward DDs more for support tasks.

Pure support classes are always massively underplayed. Noone would pick DDs just to spot someone without any chance that they themselves will do something. That's like picking a patrol boat and charging a BB - good luck with that one

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Well, @wilkatis_LV may be harsh but he has a point. WG games are just not tailored for realism, they do the arcade thing very well but realism...not so much. They tried realistic battles long ago in WoT, it didn't work out well. WG will be better off polishing the arcade fun part of the game, not forcing realism into it.

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Want realism? Join the navy! 

 

For me I just want to play some fun games when I come home from work man. I mean I do love the history behind every ship. Heck it is even the reason I started playing this. 
The only thing I want is a balanced game that feels rewarding when plays play out correctly. 

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27 minutes ago, BlackYeti said:

They tried realistic battles long ago in WoT

3x t9 Jagdtigers (tier 9 TD?) vs a bunch of Russian tier 4s or something like that... Good times :Smile_trollface:

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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

WoWS is and will be the better arcade game. They will never beat WT in their realism mode. As simple as that

I was watching a bit of Flamu on twitch and was quite surprised how great it looked, and the replay system is 2nd to none.

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1 hour ago, iJoby said:

the replay system is 2nd to none.

This. Imagine having an actually good & working replay system in WoWS... Everyone can dream, right? :Smile_teethhappy:

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Firstly, it's always good to have some brainstorming now and again, it opens up for new ideas and different approaches to old ones. So kudos for that, OP!

 

Having said that...

 

14 hours ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

First idea: some kind of "total combat" game mode where players can compete in ships of any tier and type, so you basically have a ten-tier matchmaking spread. Allow any kind of fail divisions,

This sounds like some sort of WoWs equivalent to the Grand Melêe in medieval tournaments. You know, the part where they toss the whole idea of fair match-up and orderly competition out the window, and basically have a great brawl for everyone to join or watch? It always sounded more interesting to watch than to take part in, to be honest. I can't see how this could possibly work out within any kind of balanced game frame.

 

14 hours ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Next idea: PvPvE scenarios, where you have two teams of players fighting each other for more intricate tactical goals than in Standard or Domination mode. Basically this would be Operations with an enemy team of (mostly) real players instead of bots.

This sounds interesting, and might very well be worth exploring further.

 

14 hours ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Next up: (More) "Realistic Combat". You don't need to give up all the arcade elements for this. You can still retain the hit points bar. Just disabling target locking would be a good start. Also having no torpedo reloads, or at least not more than a single one per game, which takes maybe about ten minutes. Also no planes strafing other planes, but fighter planes being able to strafe surface ships instead. And  also maybe - I don't know how easy or difficult it would be to do this - disable gun stabilisation, i.e. have the sight sway as the ships hits waves, leans over in turns, leans over as broadsides are fired. Have the sight picture blurr and shake when volleys are released. Again, to incentivise players of many skill levels to try this, the rewards should be really tempting, maybe even include <gasp> doubloons here. Edit: And again, maybe combine this with some kind of PvE or PvPvE element.

Disabling target lock and gun stabilization, and introducing picture blur and Blair Witch Warships shaking camera?

 

That would go pretty far toward reaching the historical and realistic hit ratio of about 3 %, I'll grant you that. Of course, it would also mean that you'd have to spend about ten to twenty minutes of game time in a battleship, continually firing your guns, before you landed your first hit. If you implement this and still retain the hit points bar, no battleship would be able to sink any other ship within the normal battle time frame except by ramming or the odd 'detonation'. You could opt to have battles last several hours, I guess - that would be pretty realistic. Boring, but realistic.

 

As for destroyers having no torpedo reloads, or just one per game, and planes being unable to fight other planes with a player-controlled mechanic, I can't see how this would improve the game experience.

 

In short, WoWs is an arcade game. Trying to take it piecemeal into the simulation role wouldn't work, in my opinion; it would just make it into a failed hybrid.

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On 24/07/2018 at 12:56 AM, wilkatis_LV said:

This. Imagine having an actually good & working replay system in WoWS... Everyone can dream, right? :Smile_teethhappy:

My dream would be a replay system that would play my replays from every update, I have some fantastic games I would love to put to Video.

OH! hang on! that's a fantasy, if only, EH!

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