[BREAK] MrCoffinmaker Players 6 posts 28,771 battles Report post #1 Posted July 23, 2018 Running my Moskva full speed in cyclone , full health enemy mino rushing full speed straight ahead 8k away. What is the best course of action? Turn away and eat several AP salvos broadside, or get close and try to dodge a few torps? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TTTX] Tyrendian89 [TTTX] Players 4,608 posts 8,139 battles Report post #2 Posted July 23, 2018 radar him and kill him with AP at 11.7km? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anonym_PrKbguoREdYS Players 112 posts Report post #3 Posted July 23, 2018 BEST: Radar it beforehand (with some luck). And turn away without being seen. If the Mino Attacks straight in: At 8 km tho, I would definitely turn away and eat some broadside salvos. Then just kite away and shoot. Those torps are deadly. But if the intention of the Mino captain is to turn away himself, just angle in and shoot AP. Kill should come in max 1 to 2 salvos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BREAK] MrCoffinmaker Players 6 posts 28,771 battles Report post #4 Posted July 23, 2018 He was already only 8k away going full speed.. But I agree, radar from 11.7 is better :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HOO] BeauNidl3 Players 2,192 posts Report post #5 Posted July 23, 2018 Moskva can easily citadel Minotaur at that range through the bows stern or sides, plus you have radar which he doesn't so you can see him at 8km+ when he can't. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BREAK] MrCoffinmaker Players 6 posts 28,771 battles Report post #6 Posted July 23, 2018 Yeah, I tried to do a "quick" turn, but ate like 40k damage and died. Got quite scorched in chat for taking that path... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HOO] BeauNidl3 Players 2,192 posts Report post #7 Posted July 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, MrCoffinmaker said: Yeah, I tried to do a "quick" turn, but ate like 40k damage and died. Got quite scorched in chat for taking that path... Well if you show your side to a Minotaur at that range he will just citadel you to death with 2.8s reload 10 gun volleys in less time than it takes you to reload, he's nothing to lose and stands a better than fair chance of tearing you in half. His guns certainly can't pen the new Moskva bows, at most you would have taken some superstructure damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BREAK] MrCoffinmaker Players 6 posts 28,771 battles Report post #8 Posted July 23, 2018 I tried with a few salvos but didn't do more than maybe 20k damage to a full-health mino, no cit hits at all. The rng didn't work in my favor... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BREAK] MrCoffinmaker Players 6 posts 28,771 battles Report post #9 Posted July 23, 2018 I will try your solution next time that happens BeauNidl3. Thanks for the tip! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] loppantorkel Players 4,506 posts 15,942 battles Report post #10 Posted July 23, 2018 I think he had a clear upper hand if you met him front to front full speed at 8km. Full stop, reverse and try getting citadels by taking one shot at the time, I think might have been best, but likely to lose regardless. Some Moskva player might have a better tactic though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BLITZ] WeGreedy Players 3,005 posts 15,010 battles Report post #11 Posted July 23, 2018 27 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said: Moskva can easily citadel Minotaur at that range through the bows stern Moskva is no Henry... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panocek Players 13,176 posts 13,617 battles Report post #12 Posted July 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said: Moskva can easily citadel Minotaur at that range through the bows stern or sides, plus you have radar which he doesn't so you can see him at 8km+ when he can't. Moskva can't overmatch Mino bow/stern, while 220mm guns might prove overkill and overpen Mino citadel up close 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CHEFT] DFens_666 Players 13,162 posts 11,029 battles Report post #13 Posted July 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Panocek said: while 220mm guns might prove overkill and overpen Mino citadel up close Dont think so, unless the shell doesnt arm in time. 101mm belt armor definetely fuses any shells as far as i found out. Quote As of patch 0.3.1, the armor thickness necessary for AP shell fuzing was as follows (caliber - armor): 410mm - 68mm, 356mm - 59mm, 203mm - 34mm, 155mm - 26mm. http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UNICS] loppantorkel Players 4,506 posts 15,942 battles Report post #14 Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, DFens_666 said: Dont think so, unless the shell doesnt arm in time. 101mm belt armor definetely fuses any shells as far as i found out. Only way to know is to test it. Flat broadside cruisers are common to overpen through the citadel, if up close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TTTX] Tyrendian89 [TTTX] Players 4,608 posts 8,139 battles Report post #15 Posted July 23, 2018 46 minutes ago, MrCoffinmaker said: I tried with a few salvos but didn't do more than maybe 20k damage to a full-health mino, no cit hits at all. The rng didn't work in my favor... well then your course of action should be clear. SACRIFICE MOAR GOATS TO RNGSUS! (sorry for not being helpful, but I dont have much of value to add with the others covering things this well... so I'm just adding not-value-but-hopefully-entertainment ) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TOXIC] Kartoffelmos Alpha Tester 2,237 posts 8,884 battles Report post #16 Posted July 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, DFens_666 said: Dont think so, unless the shell doesnt arm in time. 101mm belt armor definetely fuses any shells as far as i found out. There are two different behaviours to consider when looking at overpenetrations: Did the shell arm? Did the shell explode within the ship? The former is quite easy in the way that you only need to compare the fuse threshold with the effective armour (angled cross section thickness). The latter is more interesting since you have to look at the shell velocity and projectile detonator and calculate how far the shell will travel before it explodes. For Moskva, this is 985 m/s * 0,033 s = 32,505 m. Here, I assumed that the initial velocity would represent the actual velocity at ~7 km and used the standard 0,033 s projectile detonation timer (some ships have a different value, f.ex. the Minotuar has shells with a detonator of 0,005 s). As such, since the Minotaur is not 32 m wide, the shells would merely overpenetrate the hull. However, if the Minotaur was angled and/or your shells lost sufficient velocity prior to the moment of impact, the result would be penetrations (citadel or regular ones). EDIT: Well, maybe you knew this already and I misjudged your wording ("arm in time") since the issue is not the time aspect but rather the distance . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TORAZ] El2aZeR Beta Tester 15,786 posts 26,801 battles Report post #17 Posted July 23, 2018 If you're alone and the Mino knows what he's doing you're pretty much dead. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HOO] BeauNidl3 Players 2,192 posts Report post #18 Posted July 23, 2018 32 minutes ago, Panocek said: Moskva can't overmatch Mino bow/stern, while 220mm guns might prove overkill and overpen Mino citadel up close I've citadelled Minotaurs through the rear at that sort of range with my Moskva, it's only got 16mm plating and 38mm lower athwartship. Same at the bows, I just aim low. I don't know if it's supposed to work, but it does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panocek Players 13,176 posts 13,617 battles Report post #19 Posted July 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said: I've citadelled Minotaurs through the rear at that sort of range with my Moskva, it's only got 16mm plating and 38mm lower athwartship. Same at the bows, I just aim low. I don't know if it's supposed to work, but it does. Flat stern, sure. but from the bow only way to penetrate would be at an angle to just not ricochet off 16mm plating and then proceed into citadel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyllon Players 2,588 posts Report post #20 Posted July 23, 2018 33 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said: well then your course of action should be clear. SACRIFICE MOAR GOATS TO RNGSUS! (...) We don't know if he has any access to goats. Maybe it would be easier for him to send couple more dissidents to gulag? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CHEFT] DFens_666 Players 13,162 posts 11,029 battles Report post #21 Posted July 23, 2018 59 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said: EDIT: Well, maybe you knew this already and I misjudged your wording ("arm in time") since the issue is not the time aspect but rather the distance . Yes, thats what i meant But atleast ppl understand it better now, since u explained it more detailed. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OttoZander Players 349 posts 15,839 battles Report post #22 Posted July 24, 2018 Turning at that range will always be an absolute death. No exceptions. You will have to do your best, using your acoustics or without. Survival wise, first you probably should try and bait those torpedoes by sailing without adjusting course. Was there strange intervals between his salvos? Dodge. Hopefully he bins them all in one go, either in a line or a spread. If you succeed to survive, from there on just do not let him turn his other side, and given your guns you should be fully capable of doing that. If he does - repeat step one. If the Minotaur is much more skilled than that and actually launches a very precise line, your best bet would be to try and get the bow saturated with torpedo damage. Moskva is more than capable taking such a punishment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ONE2] RAHJAILARI Players 3,160 posts 31,670 battles Report post #23 Posted July 24, 2018 Yeah, just bow tank the basterd seems like a good option and your guns should be able to kill him right quick. Maybe start reversing a bit, if he stops use radar after you are no longer spotted. He has to turn and show his side to fire those torps, so wait for it and unload a full salvo, when he does. You'll prolly take some torps to the bow but that's not going to kill you so no worries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[DD537] Episparh Players 1,403 posts 20,619 battles Report post #24 Posted July 24, 2018 Moskva at 8km... It's a long range fighter you are screwed: Reversing - you will be owned with shear dpm if mino knows where to aim. Turning - you are floating citadel - at that range Memetiur will rekt you. Ram - the manly way, just steam up, switch AP and hope you got him in the turn when he tries to torp you, else "dum dum dum, ram speed" I prefer the last because it give a way to trade 1 for 1. In others your chances are minimal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[UTW] ShinGetsu Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters 8,985 posts 7,359 battles Report post #25 Posted July 24, 2018 1 hour ago, RAHJAILARI said: Yeah, just bow tank the basterd seems like a good option and your guns should be able to kill him right quick. Maybe start reversing a bit, if he stops use radar after you are no longer spotted. He has to turn and show his side to fire those torps, so wait for it and unload a full salvo, when he does. You'll prolly take some torps to the bow but that's not going to kill you so no worries. Nah, if you starts bow-tanking from a 8km position, you just becomes a sitting duck, Minotaur will just rush, outmaneuver Moskva's slow turret and torpedo/citadel to death. Between the megaheal, the lack of overmatch for the 220, the agility of the Minotaur and the torpedoes, Mino gets an overwhelming advantage if you stops moving. At least use the 35 knots of the Moskva. Best bet IMO in this situation would be to try the Joust maneuver. Pass the Minotaur as close as possible so that the torps don't have the range to arm, continue straight and avoid the next salvo (easy when getting away), then go into kiting position and use either the AP if the Minotaur presents his stern or his broadside, or HE. What Otto said also can work. Last but not least : You're full HP ? Becomes the torpedo. You have 1.5 times the HP of the Minotaur, you'll survive it, just remember to keep the DCP for the flood. In the end, best option would still be to not get in this situation and use radar to outrange the Minotaur and be ready for kiting it. Or just play Henri IV, 240mm overmatch the Minotaur plating everywhere. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
