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MrCoffinmaker

CourseOfAction

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Running my Moskva full speed in cyclone , full health enemy mino  rushing full speed straight ahead 8k away. What is the best course of action?    Turn away and eat several AP salvos broadside, or get close and try to dodge a few torps?  

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BEST: Radar it beforehand (with some luck). And turn away without being seen.

 

If the Mino Attacks straight in:

At 8 km tho, I would definitely turn away and eat some broadside salvos. Then just kite away and shoot.

Those torps are deadly.

 

But if the intention of the Mino captain is to turn away himself, just angle in and shoot AP. Kill should come in max 1 to 2 salvos.

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Moskva can easily citadel Minotaur at that range through the bows stern or sides, plus you have radar which he doesn't so you can see him at 8km+ when he can't.

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Yeah, I tried to do a "quick" turn, but ate like 40k damage and died. Got quite scorched in chat for taking that path...

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4 minutes ago, MrCoffinmaker said:

Yeah, I tried to do a "quick" turn, but ate like 40k damage and died. Got quite scorched in chat for taking that path...

 

Well if you show your side to a Minotaur at that range he will just citadel you to death with 2.8s reload 10 gun volleys in less time than it takes you to reload, he's nothing to lose and stands a better than fair chance of tearing you in half. His guns certainly can't pen the new Moskva bows, at most you would have taken some superstructure damage.

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I tried with a few salvos but didn't do more than maybe 20k damage to a full-health mino, no cit hits at all.  The rng didn't work in my favor...

 

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I think he had a clear upper hand if you met him front to front full speed at 8km. Full stop, reverse and try getting citadels by taking one shot at the time, I think might have been best, but likely to lose regardless. Some Moskva player might have a better tactic though.

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27 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Moskva can easily citadel Minotaur at that range through the bows stern

Moskva is no Henry...

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23 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Moskva can easily citadel Minotaur at that range through the bows stern or sides, plus you have radar which he doesn't so you can see him at 8km+ when he can't.

Moskva can't overmatch Mino bow/stern, while 220mm guns might prove overkill and overpen Mino citadel up close

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3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

while 220mm guns might prove overkill and overpen Mino citadel up close

Dont think so, unless the shell doesnt arm in time. 101mm belt armor definetely fuses any shells as far as i found out.

 

Quote

As of patch 0.3.1, the armor thickness necessary for AP shell fuzing was as follows (caliber - armor): 410mm - 68mm, 356mm - 59mm, 203mm - 34mm, 155mm - 26mm.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Gunnery_%26_Armor_Penetration

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

Dont think so, unless the shell doesnt arm in time. 101mm belt armor definetely fuses any shells as far as i found out.

Only way to know is to test it. Flat broadside cruisers are common to overpen through the citadel, if up close.

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46 minutes ago, MrCoffinmaker said:

I tried with a few salvos but didn't do more than maybe 20k damage to a full-health mino, no cit hits at all.  The rng didn't work in my favor...

 

well then your course of action should be clear. SACRIFICE MOAR GOATS TO RNGSUS!

(sorry for not being helpful, but I dont have much of value to add with the others covering things this well... so I'm just adding not-value-but-hopefully-entertainment :Smile-_tongue:)

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25 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Dont think so, unless the shell doesnt arm in time. 101mm belt armor definetely fuses any shells as far as i found out.

 

There are two different behaviours to consider when looking at overpenetrations:

  1. Did the shell arm?
  2. Did the shell explode within the ship?

 

The former is quite easy in the way that you only need to compare the fuse threshold with the effective armour (angled cross section thickness). The latter is more interesting since you have to look at the shell velocity and projectile detonator and calculate how far the shell will travel before it explodes. For Moskva, this is 985 m/s * 0,033 s = 32,505 m. Here, I assumed that the initial velocity would represent the actual velocity at ~7 km and used the standard 0,033 s projectile detonation timer (some ships have a different value, f.ex. the Minotuar has shells with a detonator of 0,005 s).

 

As such, since the Minotaur is not 32 m wide, the shells would merely overpenetrate the hull. However, if the Minotaur was angled and/or your shells lost sufficient velocity prior to the moment of impact, the result would be penetrations (citadel or regular ones).

 

EDIT: Well, maybe you knew this already and I misjudged your wording ("arm in time") since the issue is not the time aspect but rather the distance :Smile-_tongue:.

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If you're alone and the Mino knows what he's doing you're pretty much dead.

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32 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Moskva can't overmatch Mino bow/stern, while 220mm guns might prove overkill and overpen Mino citadel up close

 

I've citadelled Minotaurs through the rear at that sort of range with my Moskva, it's only got 16mm plating and 38mm lower athwartship. Same at the bows, I just aim low.

I don't know if it's supposed to work, but it does.

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10 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

I've citadelled Minotaurs through the rear at that sort of range with my Moskva, it's only got 16mm plating and 38mm lower athwartship. Same at the bows, I just aim low.

I don't know if it's supposed to work, but it does.

Flat stern, sure. but from the bow only way to penetrate would be at an angle to just not ricochet off 16mm plating and then proceed into citadel.

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33 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

well then your course of action should be clear. SACRIFICE MOAR GOATS TO RNGSUS!

(...)

We don't know if he has any access to goats. Maybe it would be easier for him to send couple more dissidents to gulag? :Smile_great:

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59 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

EDIT: Well, maybe you knew this already and I misjudged your wording ("arm in time") since the issue is not the time aspect but rather the distance :Smile-_tongue:.

 

Yes, thats what i meant :Smile_glasses:

But atleast ppl understand it better now, since u explained it more detailed.

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Turning at that range will always be an absolute death. No exceptions. You will have to do your best, using your acoustics or without. 

 

Survival wise, first you probably should try and bait those torpedoes by sailing without adjusting course. Was there strange intervals between his salvos? Dodge. Hopefully he bins them all in one go, either in a line or a spread. If you succeed to survive, from there on just do not let him turn his other side, and given your guns you should be fully capable of doing that. If he does - repeat step one.

 

If the Minotaur is much more skilled than that and actually launches a very precise line, your best bet would be to try and get the bow saturated with torpedo damage. Moskva is more than capable taking such a punishment. 

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Yeah, just bow tank the basterd seems like a good option and your guns should be able to kill him right quick. Maybe start reversing a bit, if he stops use radar after you are no longer spotted. He has to turn and show his side to fire those torps, so wait for it and unload a full salvo, when he does. You'll prolly take some torps to the bow but that's not going to kill you so no worries.:cap_hmm:

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Moskva at 8km... It's a long range fighter you are screwed:

Reversing - you will be owned with shear dpm if mino knows where to aim. 

Turning - you are floating citadel - at that range Memetiur will rekt you. 

Ram - the manly way, just steam up, switch AP and hope you got him in the turn when he tries to torp you, else "dum dum dum, ram speed" 

 

I prefer the last because it give a way to trade 1 for 1. In others your chances are minimal. 

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1 hour ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Yeah, just bow tank the basterd seems like a good option and your guns should be able to kill him right quick. Maybe start reversing a bit, if he stops use radar after you are no longer spotted. He has to turn and show his side to fire those torps, so wait for it and unload a full salvo, when he does. You'll prolly take some torps to the bow but that's not going to kill you so no worries.:cap_hmm:

Nah, if you starts bow-tanking from a 8km position, you just becomes a sitting duck, Minotaur will just rush, outmaneuver Moskva's slow turret and torpedo/citadel to death. Between the megaheal, the lack of overmatch for the 220, the agility of the Minotaur and the torpedoes, Mino gets an overwhelming advantage if you stops moving. At least use the 35 knots of the Moskva.

Best bet IMO in this situation would be to try the Joust maneuver. Pass the Minotaur as close as possible so that the torps don't have the range to arm, continue straight and avoid the next salvo (easy when getting away), then go into kiting position and use either the AP if the Minotaur presents his stern or his broadside, or HE.

What Otto said also can work.

 

Last but not least : You're full HP ? Becomes the torpedo. You have 1.5 times the HP of the Minotaur, you'll survive it, just remember to keep the DCP for the flood. :cap_cool:

 

In the end, best option would still be to not get in this situation and use radar to outrange the Minotaur and be ready for kiting it.

 

Or just play Henri IV, 240mm overmatch the Minotaur plating everywhere. :cap_haloween:

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