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__Poi__

Yueyang In Clan wars--> WHY?!

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As somebody who plays a lot of DDs (I don't claim to be an expert but i certainly play them enough for my opinion to be of some accurate level) I find the position of the Yueyang in Clan wars to be; unfair to say the least.

In a random battle a DD with radar isn't that bad to deal with since 99% of occasions your team will not focus and capitalize on the spotting gained.

This is NOT the case in clan battles.

 

Due to it's lower concealment than all but one other tier 10 dd ->

(which nobody uses in clan wars anyways because lets face it the shimakaze is not a competitive ship due to the fact that everyone and their mother is running hydro due to the lack of Aircraft.)

It can effectively; outpost; turn away from and then radar any tier 10 DD; the fact that he is most definitely running RPF means that his team probably knew that the dd was about to be spotted and already have their guns trained on the area. So now the opposing DD must now desperately flee for his life in the hopes that he will not be completely destroyed. If he isn't dead He is now crippled for the rest of the game; unable to contest; push or support for fear of getting hit by a stray shell.

So you are forced to hold back and avoid pushing where the yueyang is so as to avoid this fate; even if this means leaving your teammates unsupported by your spotting...

A ship that actively discourages the enemy DD(s) from playing the objective or pushing to spot for their team seems kind of counter-intuitive, but maybe that's just me.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, __Poi__ said:

[...]

A ship that actively discourages the enemy DD(s) from playing the objective or pushing to spot for their team [...]

 

 

 

... u gave the answer. nothing wrong there... radar is short duration, but dangerous enough to do the job. the dd's job btw in cb's not is rushing caps at start, but indeed to 1st off play the pesky "who's-where-'n-wth-they-shoot-me".... game. it's a game about errors and exploiting them, YY just adds there. 1st off that was done by the Z-52 btw, some might argue that one's even worse (for sure in close "camping"combat).

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Why dont you use the YY yourself if it is so strong as you say?

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Game modes like this will always tend to favour one or a few select ships. There's nearly no way to avoid this. As it is, the Montana is far more dominating than the Yueyang.

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23 minutes ago, __Poi__ said:

As somebody who plays a lot of DDs (I don't claim to be an expert but i certainly play them enough for my opinion to be of some accurate level) I find the position of the Yueyang in Clan wars to be; unfair to say the least.

In a random battle a DD with radar isn't that bad to deal with since 99% of occasions your team will not focus and capitalize on the spotting gained.

This is NOT the case in clan battles.

 

Due to it's lower concealment than all but one other tier 10 dd ->

(which nobody uses in clan wars anyways because lets face it the shimakaze is not a competitive ship due to the fact that everyone and their mother is running hydro due to the lack of Aircraft.)

It can effectively; outpost; turn away from and then radar any tier 10 DD; the fact that he is most definitely running RPF means that his team probably knew that the dd was about to be spotted and already have their guns trained on the area. So now the opposing DD must now desperately flee for his life in the hopes that he will not be completely destroyed. If he isn't dead He is now crippled for the rest of the game; unable to contest; push or support for fear of getting hit by a stray shell.

So you are forced to hold back and avoid pushing where the yueyang is so as to avoid this fate; even if this means leaving your teammates unsupported by your spotting...

A ship that actively discourages the enemy DD(s) from playing the objective or pushing to spot for their team seems kind of counter-intuitive, but maybe that's just me.

 

 

I did not have much problems with Yueyang in my Gearing.

The key is not get too close to the enemy cruisers when you know a Yueyang is nearby and you are not sure if she has radar.

When you corner her or have cover from her cruiser support, she is easy to take out.

Even general scouting is more relaxed, since you do not need to worry about her torps.

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2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I did not have much problems with Yueyang in my Gearing.

The key is not get too close to the enemy cruisers when you know a Yueyang is nearby and you are not sure if she has radar.

When you corner her or have cover from her cruiser support, she is easy to take out.

Even general scouting is more relaxed, since you do not need to worry about her torps.

If your team brings a radar-YY backed up by double Zao and it spots the enemy gearing those three ships will annihilate it. Nothing the gearing can do about it. If you work closely together the YY doesnt even have to get spotted because the Zao's will just say "I am spotted", *bloop* radar, Hello Gearing, bye Gearing.

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It is rare that Zaos hold their fire that long while their team fights for its life.

You have generally a good idea which ships are were long before you can get close enough to fall victim to that.

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While the YY is (or at least seems like) the most popular DD, the only DD who's a rare sight is Grozovoi (Khaba doesn't count). Gearings aren't rare, Shimas and Zs often are seen when teams run 2x DDs

 

Especially at higher ranks people can deal with smoke quite efficiently, so that radar simply brings more utility

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1 hour ago, __Poi__ said:

As somebody who plays a lot of DDs (I don't claim to be an expert but i certainly play them enough for my opinion to be of some accurate level) I find the position of the Yueyang in Clan wars to be; unfair to say the least.

In a random battle a DD with radar isn't that bad to deal with since 99% of occasions your team will not focus and capitalize on the spotting gained.

This is NOT the case in clan battles.

 

Due to it's lower concealment than all but one other tier 10 dd ->

(which nobody uses in clan wars anyways because lets face it the shimakaze is not a competitive ship due to the fact that everyone and their mother is running hydro due to the lack of Aircraft.)

It can effectively; outpost; turn away from and then radar any tier 10 DD; the fact that he is most definitely running RPF means that his team probably knew that the dd was about to be spotted and already have their guns trained on the area. So now the opposing DD must now desperately flee for his life in the hopes that he will not be completely destroyed. If he isn't dead He is now crippled for the rest of the game; unable to contest; push or support for fear of getting hit by a stray shell.

So you are forced to hold back and avoid pushing where the yueyang is so as to avoid this fate; even if this means leaving your teammates unsupported by your spotting...

A ship that actively discourages the enemy DD(s) from playing the objective or pushing to spot for their team seems kind of counter-intuitive, but maybe that's just me.

 

 

Ships are Balanced for Random. Not Ranked.. Ranked is about Clans..

 

There are the best ships for Clan in every class YueYang is agreed to be the best DD Same as Montana is by far the most popular BB.. Cruisers are more open as teams tend to have at least 4 or 5 Cruisers Multiple Cruisers have there role to play.

 

In order for you clan to succeed  you profile your players.. I'm one of the SCRUB Clan DD players. My role in the Clan is to have Every TOP Tier DD so if called on to bring a DD I can Field any one our Field (Sea) Commander Requests.

 

What I'm saying is there is always going to be a BEST DD/BB to bring there is nothing WG can do about that.. The roles of DDs differ Greatly in Random.. But the roles of DDs in clan is very fine.. I have gone through many a game not shooting my guns once.. and even my ability to torp plays second fiddle to capping and spotting.

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Playing DD in Clan Battles needs a touch of masochism apparently :cap_haloween:

 

One of radar YY's job is suppressing the enemy DD together with cruiser support and that works pretty well.

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2 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

Ships are Balanced for Random. Not Ranked.. Ranked is about Clans..

 

There are the best ships for Clan in every class YueYang is agreed to be the best DD Same as Montana is by far the most popular BB.. Cruisers are more open as teams tend to have at least 4 or 5 Cruisers Multiple Cruisers have there role to play.

 

In order for you clan to succeed  you profile your players.. I'm one of the SCRUB Clan DD players. My role in the Clan is to have Every TOP Tier DD so if called on to bring any one I'm our      Field (Sea) Commander Requests.

 

What I'm saying is there is always going to be a BEST DD/BB to bring there is nothing WG can do about that.. The roles of DDs differ Greatly in Random.. But the roles of DDs in clan is very fine.. I have gone through many a game not shooting my guns once.. and even my ability to torp plays second fiddle to capping and spotting.

That is my issue you see; i feel like there should be some sort of choice; but when a ship (in this case yueyang) does its job far better than the others that feels a little silly. Like why bother playing any other dds? Exactly; don't.

But yet with cruisers there are a whole variety; each with their own individual roles and advantages; but with yueyang its just Advantage after advantage with no real weaknesses.

33 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

If your team brings a radar-YY backed up by double Zao and it spots the enemy gearing those three ships will annihilate it. Nothing the gearing can do about it. If you work closely together the YY doesnt even have to get spotted because the Zao's will just say "I am spotted", *bloop* radar, Hello Gearing, bye Gearing.

Hitting the nail on the head here with this statement; and as for your previous statement the only reason I'm not playing it is because I do not yet own it; and work has kept me away from grinding as of late...

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9 minutes ago, __Poi__ said:

i feel like there should be some sort of choice

It already is there, everyone chooses their ships. But while choosing it they have to face with this:

  • Max 1 BB, which BB we can get the most of?
  • Most teams run 1 DD, at max 2. Same as BBs - which DD can we get the most of?

If it fits your strategy - you pick it. We had a choice, we chose. And as I said, it's still not rare to see Gearings, Shimas, even Zs.

 

11 minutes ago, __Poi__ said:

Like why bother playing any other dds?

Bcuz they bring something different to the playing field that you can use for your benefit?

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1 hour ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Why dont you use the YY yourself if it is so strong as you say?

 

Very simple answer, he don't have it! :Smile_glasses:

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11 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

It already is there, everyone chooses their ships. But while choosing it they have to face with this:

  • Max 1 BB, which BB we can get the most of?
  • Most teams run 1 DD, at max 2. Same as BBs - which DD can we get the most of?

If it fits your strategy - you pick it. We had a choice, we chose. And as I said, it's still not rare to see Gearings, Shimas, even Zs.

 

Bcuz they bring something different to the playing field that you can use for your benefit?

Personally the only reason I play other dds(and i feel many are the same way) Is because we don't have the Yueyang.

And I certainly acknowledge that they do bring something else to the table; Shima has nukes; gearing has great smoke, But my issue is that Yueyang brings far too much to the table, why bring 1/2 a solution when you can bring a full one.

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3 minutes ago, __Poi__ said:

Personally the only reason I play other dds(and i feel many are the same way) Is because we don't have the Yueyang.

And I certainly acknowledge that they do bring something else to the table; Shima has nukes; gearing has great smoke, But my issue is that Yueyang brings far too much to the table, why bring 1/2 a solution when you can bring a full one.

Again, that's a question of what and how you are doing. Certain ships have their strengths in certain directions. Slight differences in playstyle of a ship may completely change the tactics of the whole team. If you bring any other DD and play it correctly (for example - don't use Shima as a DD hunter, but rather as a spotting & torping ship) it's not "1/2 solution" it's a full one.

Your problem stem from the you seemingly trying to put any other DD in the exact position & playstyle that the Yueyang has and then wondering why it's not working

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It is not fair to compare the DD choice to any of the CA/CL choices. Generally only 1 DD (maybe 2) will be taken, yet 4-5 CA/CLs. So with cruisers there is more of a tactical choice. The fact that you only bring one of a certain class (i.e. DDs and BBs) means that you have to optimise that choice more. Therefore you mostly see YY as a DD and Montana as BB.

The Z and the gearing are both still viable, but the YYs radar means that you might go with one less radar cruiser for example, so it is generally a better choice (also its torps are near invisible and its detection radius is simply better as well).

 

I'm fairly certain that if you would be able to take only one cruiser and the rest DDs, you would see a more balanced choice in DDs as well.

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I do hope one day we'll actually get to have a choice where we really don't have one - sky cancer CVs...

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15 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I do hope one day we'll actually get to have a choice where we really don't have one - sky cancer CVs...

 

I honestly hope we never get CV's in CB it would just ruin it.

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36 minutes ago, GhostRider_24 said:

 

I honestly hope we never get CV's in CB it would just ruin it.

Gonna First disagree; and then say what!?

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32 minutes ago, GhostRider_24 said:

 

I honestly hope we never get CV's in CB it would just ruin it.

Why? CVs are reliant on teamplay, they are countered by teamplay, they are force multipliers for teams. I'd say they are better suited for CB than they are for randoms. 

 

And yes, there are unicum CVs that will just curbstomp bad teams that mismanage AA, but that's the same as how good cruisers can farm broadsiding idiots that cannot angle despite eating a dozen citadels till they die after 2-3 salvos. Or a good Montana can take out half the enemy team if they are dumb enough.

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in competitive knowledge makes great and wisdom+knowledge makes king. With the exclusion of CVs, DDs got the rule of providing spotting for the team. Before the introduction of the YY a mix of Z-52 + Gearing/Shima provided most vision. The YY offered an option of vision closest to the vision of the CV, by being able to spot without being spotted. Combine this with her gunboat ability and torpedoes that hurt most of the enemy fleet and you get a ship that is balanced by it's weakness against planes.

Oh wait we removed those.

In an environment where you can min-max as heavy as CW due to exclusion of a whole class, you automatically get overperforming ships. Also with the existence of AA builds and Minotaur and Worcester combined with Gearing smoke CVs will never be a threat to competent and organised teams. People who struggle with CVs, struggle with teamwork and adaptation.

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1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

I do hope one day we'll actually get to have a choice where we really don't have one - sky cancer CVs...

 

Hell no, CV's would just ruin the format, 7v7 CV's are way too strong, the same way their talk of 8v8 with 2 BB's would be a disaster, from 1/7th of the team to 1/4.

 

Yuey is very good in Clan Battles, I play mine a fair bit, I also play my others with Shima being my least played.

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2 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

Hell no, CV's would just ruin the format, 7v7 CV's are way too strong, the same way their talk of 8v8 with 2 BB's would be a disaster, from 1/7th of the team to 1/4.

 

Yuey is very good in Clan Battles, I play mine a fair bit, I also play my others with Shima being my least played.

How are they too strong? In a format where likely 5 to 6 out of 7 enemy ships can slot defAA, it isn't even hard to counter by just not going alone, or by providing any such moves with enough air cover of your own. And if you don't slot a CV, well, that is your tactical choice, just as it is with a not having a BB or not having a DD in the lineup.

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18 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

Hell no, CV's would just ruin the format, 7v7 CV's are way too strong, the same way their talk of 8v8 with 2 BB's would be a disaster, from 1/7th of the team to 1/4.

 

Yuey is very good in Clan Battles, I play mine a fair bit, I also play my others with Shima being my least played.

CV in CB should be in at least a 8v8 format. 9v9 would be better. It's way too strong in a 7v7 scenario, while a 1CV-2BB / 5 or 6 others can be quite good.

 

YueYang is indeed strong, but lately I feel that Shimakaze is the second best choice you can take. Very high damage torpedoes and area denial spreads have their utility. I know for sure clans that use a YY+Shima in their line-up and that does works quite well.

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5 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

 I know for sure clans that use a YY+Shima in their line-up and that does works quite well.

I have so far seen only one clan that used a single shima in their line-up, but never have I seen a YY and a Shima in the same line-up, a lot of teams in the typhoon league actually trade a DD for a Wooster right now.

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