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OOAndreasOO

next WG objective: Zero players in Operations

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[ITA-A]
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Do you think players have more fun making impossible playing PVE?

ok...if you think so, let's go on!!!!

It's easy give bots impossible firepower, impossible accuracy, impossible chance of fire, impossible dodging hits.....Yes...it's easy...you just have to program them.

But i dont think average skilled players like lose constinuosly in operations.

 

...I think game developers are all sadistic against players.....Best way to finally destroy this game.

...Enjoy it then!

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[HMSR]
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Winning ops in easy as long as players know what they have to do there, witch is a whole new topic in itself, how to educate the average playerbase in wows. 

Who ever comes up with that answer gets a nobel prize tbh :Smile_smile:

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23 minutes ago, OOAndreasOO said:

...I think game developers are all sadistic against players...

 

Man, if you had only seen what they do to each other in their spare time!

Spoiler

giphy.gif

 

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[PLAN]
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It is for me OK that WG make operations harder. Never think that operations must be easy for everybody.

 

A suggestion: Forget those coward selfish tactics which you learned in PVP and learn how to finish ALL missions in operations with ALL you own. Active playstyle and good cooperation are much more important in operations than in any other mode.

 

If you can not get it, please keep away from operations. You do not have to waste time of yours and your teammates there.

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3 minutes ago, Acetessigester said:

It is for me OK that WG make operations harder.

Good for you. But you see the amount of people who say that the difficulty level for ops is too high is growing.

 

4 minutes ago, Acetessigester said:

Never think that operations must be easy for everybody.

But they should never feel like work, with high investment and low reward. We already have modes that are harder than normal, competitive modes like Ranked and Clan Wars. Making Operations fun only for really good players is a bad idea.

 

6 minutes ago, Acetessigester said:

If you can not get it, please keep away from operations. You do not have to waste time of yours and your teammates there.

Thank you for the elitism. This shows that you belong to the type of player who would rather see the game die, than make it fun even for average players.

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Cherry Blossom was a ridiculous operation. Losing that one is impossible (?)and  thus perfect to grind Cleveland as you got very good xp rewards. So that's one I classify as too easy.

That's not what operations should be.

 

What should they be? Probably a tad harder than cherry blossom with slightly toned down rewards. Should you get a 100% succes rate? Nope, not if you have a terrible team. Should you need a 7 man clan division to win it? Nope, just a team that actually knows how to dodge, angle and select ammo (well, tbh this is probably asking too much, but one can only hope right?).

Balancing this is hard, but that's WG's job and atm they aren't really overperforming in this department.

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9 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

Losing that one is impossible

hqdefault.jpg

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[PUPSI]
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Vor 1 Stunde, 159Hunter sagte:

Losing that one is impossible (?)

unfortunately not...

 

and yes maybe it is rather easy compared to the other operations, but a reason maybe the limitation on cruisers. With this limitation your team members cannot sabotage a game intentionally by taking the wrong ships like for example DDs in Ägide...

 

Vor 1 Stunde, 159Hunter sagte:

Should you need a 7 man clan division to win it? Nope, just a team that actually knows how to dodge, angle and select ammo (well, tbh this is probably asking too much, but one can only hope right?).

unfortunately at the moment WG seems to try to alter all scenarios so that they are barely winable without division...everybody has to play a certain scenario dozens of time until to lear what might happen and to "react" on things that haven't happened yet. If you can win only because you know certain bots will spawn somewhere and you sent someone there already before those bots spawn, then this is a total design failure...

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3 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

just a team that actually knows how to dodge, angle and select ammo

 

So basically impossible to win for the average player.

I'm not even joking.

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2 hours ago, Klopirat said:

everybody has to play a certain scenario dozens of time until to lear what might happen and to "react" on things that haven't happened yet

 

1 time to know the goals of the Op.

A couple (2-3) times to know if the spawns are fixed or random.

 

Only exception might be Aegis or Newport, as they have an alternative spawn if you fail an objective (e.g. the triple BB spawn or the extra CV spawn).

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Basic problem:

  • balance ops around the average player and it's too easy to farm them in a division;
  • balance ops around competent divisions and it's far too hard for the average player.

Perhaps some kind of adaptive difficulty level based on the presence of divisions?

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52 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

Perhaps some kind of adaptive difficulty level based on the presence of divisions?

Or they could just make that damn difficulty button valid. Select normal (or maybe it is easy, can't remember) and you get the previous easier op but with slightly fewer rewards. Or you select hard and get higher rewards but get stomped if you are not coordinated or "gud".

 

That way you can still farm in a relaxed mode or you can select the slightly masochistic mode and get higher rewards but probably a higher failure rate.

 

I don't mind the harder ops in general, but I also don't mind a more relaxed and fun op aswell. 

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[AXIS]
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1 hour ago, Capra76 said:

Basic problem:

  • balance ops around the average player and it's too easy to farm them in a division;
  • balance ops around competent divisions and it's far too hard for the average player.

Perhaps some kind of adaptive difficulty level based on the presence of divisions?

Balancing ops arround 7 men clan division coordinated using TS is ridiculous, and will make ops impossible to random teams, and another game mod unavailable for clanless players, after clanwar.

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Weekend Tester
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I rarely play Operations because, as a solo player, they are largely a frustrating waste of time. Perhaps one in ten games gives you a team that has sufficient ability to make a go of it. The other nine games just serve to remind of just how inept or plain anti-social online players can be.

 

 

The obvious solution is to have both "solo only" and "division only" ops, each with an appropriate level of difficulty or complexity.

 

- "Solo only" would have to be little more than a form of Co-op with some additional basic objectives other than just winning.

 

- "Division only" could conceivably have more complex scenarios where there might be more requirement for tactical planning or alternative solutions.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, cracktrackflak said:

The obvious solution is to have both "solo only" and "division only" ops, each with an appropriate level of difficulty or complexity.

 

I mean, there was supposed to be a hard mode. (Yes, what we're currently playing is easy modo.)

Where that has gone we will probably never know.

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4 hours ago, Klopirat said:

everybody has to play a certain scenario dozens of time until to lear what might happen and to "react" on things that haven't happened yet. If you can win only because you know certain bots will spawn somewhere and you sent someone there already before those bots spawn, then this is a total design failure...

This is basically my major problem with Operations as they are now. They're more about repetition until you learn the pattern and not so much about actually responding to the situation.

 

I think I would find operations more fun if they were less predictable (more variation in enemy types and spawn locations etc.) but designed in such a way that you actually had time to react to information when you got it, instead of having to know the future.

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WG can't patch PEBCAK error though ...

 

 

 

Spoiler

I mean really, Operations aren't that hard at all. All you need to know is how the Operation plays out like (so at worst that's one game you have to play blindly and possibly lose, then you know the routes and most bot spawns) and just position yourself in a way that let's you farm damage on the beelining bots until there's no beelining bots no more and violá, Operation done.

 

The fact that so many players in WoWs can't even manage to understand and counter such heavily scripted and straightforward bot enemies isn't WG's fault and quite frankly I think we've already reached the point where making Operations easier to accomodate such potato players negatively effects the enjoyment of other players, i.e.: I personally can't be bothered to play Cherry Blossom because it's too boringly easy.

 

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I really don't understand why they haven't focussed on getting hard mode done. They are churning out new operations decently fast. I'd rather have hard mode.

 

And let's face it. Currently some of the operations are too difficult for the random 40% winrate bots that are playing this game. Simple fact. And stop it with the elitist "play in divisions" crap. Operations are not made for that, they should be available for all players and I would even argue they should be more focussed for the bad players at normal mode. Good players have ranked and clanwars and randoms already. I play operations to chill out a bit and not be super hyper competitive as I am in the other modes. But I also don't want to lose all the time, because the baddies in this game can't even figure out something after doing it dozens of times.

 

My point: try to look at the operations from a standpoint of players with 40-55% winrate or those that play solo and are not in a clan.

We forumites are a specific group, we are nearly all in clans and a lot are good players, which is why we have trouble understanding the baddies in this game (I fully don't understand them myself...).

 

We need a hard mode for the good players and clans. Maybe they should add an easy mode as well even. I myself get kind of annoyed as well sometimes at the bots having every single skill and module combined with laser accuracy btw.

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[REEA]
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In a good portion of the operations a single good player (in the right ship) can hard-carry the majority of random teams, possibly even with a significant portion of the stars.

A decent 2 man div almost guarantees an at least decent victory in most ops.

While I agree, that the operations should be doable for random teams of average players, just given those 2 facts imo with exceptions (e.g. UF) that is already the case.

Catering to average players is not the same as catering to the most incompetent ones, since that would make it too easy, probably less interesting for the actual average players.

I mean if they can't recognize the most simple patterns after many attempts there's little WG can do for them to be useful without making the scenario trivial.

(Btw, assuming Gaussian statistics a 40% player is as rare as a 60% one, so i'd put "average" between ~45-55%)

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4 hours ago, Capra76 said:

Basic problem:

  • balance ops around the average player and it's too easy to farm them in a division;
  • balance ops around competent divisions and it's far too hard for the average player.

Perhaps some kind of adaptive difficulty level based on the presence of divisions?

 

The never coming *cough* Hardmode *cough*

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[FDUSH]
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In operations stuff allways happens almost in the same way, with some small variations. When I play operations I need to play them twice times or so to know from where enemy ships cames from and what to do. The only times I couldn't get a 5 stars win (or a win at all) it's when there are AFK players or someones who doesn't does what they are supposed to do (like in the current operation and no battleship goes to the north to kill Atlanta)

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3 hours ago, Loran_Battle said:

And let's face it. Currently some of the operations are too difficult for the random 40% winrate bots that are playing this game. Simple fact. And stop it with the elitist "play in divisions" crap. Operations are not made for that, they should be available for all players and I would even argue they should be more focussed for the bad players at normal mode. Good players have ranked and clanwars and randoms already. I play operations to chill out a bit and not be super hyper competitive as I am in the other modes. But I also don't want to lose all the time, because the baddies in this game can't even figure out something after doing it dozens of times.

Want easier ops? Ok, but that calls for income rebalance. Why should you get nice credits and xp as well as rewards for stars from easy mode? I'd say either ops income should get nerfed hard or standard coop income should get buffed to be on the same level.

 

I know, standard coop is for training yadda yadda yadda... Meanwhile I'm about 9k xp away from yugumo (my first tier 9), it took me 249 games in coop to get to this point, didn't play any other mode with my kagero and I don't give a damn.

Also:

7 minutes ago, Sargento_YO said:

In operations stuff allways happens almost in the same way, with some small variations.

Which is a point sometimes used as an argument by some for why standard coop can't have nice things.

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3 minutes ago, orzel286 said:

Want easier ops? Ok, but that calls for income rebalance.


Well, yes. But that is not the point I was making. I agree that the income should be rebalanced around it.

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6 hours ago, ollonborre said:

Or they could just make that damn difficulty button valid. Select normal (or maybe it is easy, can't remember) and you get the previous easier op but with slightly fewer rewards. Or you select hard and get higher rewards but get stomped if you are not coordinated or "gud".

Just wait for that. If normal mode already gets all these threads, imagine when they implement the hard versions of operations. Can't wit to see someone of OMNI or a clan like that opening a topic because they tried to do an operation and got roflstomped by insane bots, because if the current operations are the easy mode and there's already so much complaints about it...

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