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gilly64

At sea

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OK might sound a bit thick here, but why do enemy just vanish. I know destroyers do which is annoying. But I mean battles ships etc and even the whole opposition at times and within firing distance. It can even happen at close range or when I’m using a smoke screen, I can’t see them, but I take hits from them and radar does not detect them

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giphy.gif

 

Please dont tell me that in almost 5k battles you dont know how detection mechanics works....

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10 minutes ago, gilly64 said:

OK might sound a bit thick here, but why do enemy just vanish. I know destroyers do which is annoying. But I mean battles ships etc and even the whole opposition at times and within firing distance. It can even happen at close range or when I’m using a smoke screen, I can’t see them, but I take hits from them and radar does not detect them

Ok. I am assuming that you bought your account from somewhere just recently, because it shows 4558 battles and you don't know how basic detection mechanic works.

Alright.... every ship has their own "Concealment" value and when they enter inside that range, they are detected and visible. This is the distance enemies can see you. There is also changes to this mechanic if your ship is on fire, or detected by planes, or in cover of the smoke. You should learn the concealment value in every ship in this game, to play it effectively. Keep in mind that when you fire your guns, your concealment JUMPS to your maximum gun range and blooms there for the next 20 seconds, after that concealment is changed back to basic value if you do not fire your guns anymore. That is very basic description of how it works.

 

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23 minutes ago, gilly64 said:

OK might sound a bit thick here, but why do enemy just vanish. I know destroyers do which is annoying. But I mean battles ships etc and even the whole opposition at times and within firing distance. It can even happen at close range or when I’m using a smoke screen, I can’t see them, but I take hits from them and radar does not detect them

Additionally to what @Kenliero already explained: Radar increases the range at which you are guaranteed to spot enemies from the normal 2 km to the radar range. This means, if there is nothing in your radar range, you can't spot it with radar.

Smoke interupts the line of sight both ways. You can't see people inside smoke (with some exception like when they start firing their main guns or with hydro, radar or if you get them into your guaranteed spotting range) but you also can't spot people outside of the smoke yourself (again, unless you use aircraft, hydro, radar or the guaranteed spotting range). If you have no consumable to spot the enemy outside of the smoke, you have to rely on your allies to spot the enemy for you. If there is no one to spot for you while you sit in the smoke or your smoke blocked the line of sight of your allies on the enemy... well, good luck.

 

If you have problem with specific situations, you can post a screenshot or replay.

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[-AP-]
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Lol, even i understand pretty much all the game mechanics after like 1k battles. And im nowhere near good at this game yet.

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1 hour ago, gilly64 said:

:fish_palm::fish_palm::fish_palm:

Read this: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection

 

12 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Lol, even i understand pretty much all the game mechanics after like 1k battles. And im nowhere near good at this game yet.

You understand them or you think you understand them? Big difference between those 2 :Smile_trollface:

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11 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Read this: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Detection

 

You understand them or you think you understand them? Big difference between those 2 :Smile_trollface:

I understand the theory, and know most of the numbers to a certain extent, still working on practical implementation on a lot of the stuff tho.

 

When trying to become good at a new game, i always read up on all the game mechanics and try to memorise as many stats and whatnot as i can, practical implementation, and flow of gameplay follows naturally after very slowly.

 

ap overmatch = 1/12 ap caliber,

he pen = 1/6 he caliber, 1/4 for german,

know all the little spotting quirks(although dont know the maps well enought to properly abuse line of sight sadly)

a ship has different sectors wich can be saturated after a certain amount of damage to them, this makes them black.

fires can be started at 4 or 3 different sectors of the ship, based on captain skills.

fire and flood is fully healable, he damage is (i think) healable to half? Ap damage is less healable than he damage, and citadel dama aint healable at all. (not super clear on the precice percentages here)

angling obviously, and making sure that if the enemy can overmatch my nose armor, i show a bit more of the broadside than usual. Murican ap has better pen angles cause its phat.

 

anyhow, just knowing game mechanics wont make me good, as i have zero clues as to the meta on different maps, or good/bad positions. Also i just need a better clue of when i can push and when i should kite away, i often fail at that.

 

Many things i need to learn, but im pretty sure that i got the game mechanics mostly locked down ;)

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Woah so many people imediatly trigged because someone dare to pose a single question.

Way to go. :cap_book:

 

But joke aside, WG is kinda gulty on that at, if the average player don't understand what detection mechanic is after x battles, that mean something go wrong.

For me WG should give more intel, for the "new" player and keep make system mechanic video. o/

 

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43 minutes ago, thiextar said:

I understand the theory, and know most of the numbers to a certain extent, still working on practical implementation on a lot of the stuff tho.

 

When trying to become good at a new game, i always read up on all the game mechanics and try to memorise as many stats and whatnot as i can, practical implementation, and flow of gameplay follows naturally after very slowly.

 

ap overmatch = 1/12 ap caliber,

he pen = 1/6 he caliber, 1/4 for german,

know all the little spotting quirks(although dont know the maps well enought to properly abuse line of sight sadly)

a ship has different sectors wich can be saturated after a certain amount of damage to them, this makes them black.

fires can be started at 4 or 3 different sectors of the ship, based on captain skills.

fire and flood is fully healable, he damage is (i think) healable to half? Ap damage is less healable than he damage, and citadel dama aint healable at all. (not super clear on the precice percentages here)

angling obviously, and making sure that if the enemy can overmatch my nose armor, i show a bit more of the broadside than usual. Murican ap has better pen angles cause its phat.

 

anyhow, just knowing game mechanics wont make me good, as i have zero clues as to the meta on different maps, or good/bad positions. Also i just need a better clue of when i can push and when i should kite away, i often fail at that.

 

Many things i need to learn, but im pretty sure that i got the game mechanics mostly locked down ;)

 

You will improve as you go along, I started out epically bad, I've reached the lofty heights of crap to plain awful, steady progress made.

 

The game looks simple, but there's a fair bit you learn as you play more, like the spotting mechanics apparently. It is true that WG were pretty awful at providing basic training, some of the recent videos have improved the situation somewhat.

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They are trying, I'll give them that, the "How it works" videos are rather good, the problem with them is twofold.

a.) You can rather reliably sink the enemy if you don't exactly know what is the correlation between the global HP and the module HP bars. You can't, if you are not aware even of the simplest concealment 101.

b.) It's on YouTube, wiki, written and captured materials. They are many, and most of them are excellent. ...but they are not in-game.

 

After all this time, as far as I am aware, we have some kind of in-game boot camp, but I am not sure if that deals stuff with "look at your minimap, see that blue dashed line?" instead of simply "press left click to shoot".

 

There should be controlled, obligatory tutorial missions in this regard, while constantly rewarding the player. For example, "This is Beer island, oh my god, the enemy is attacking us, here, control this shore battery, just click left button, don't worry about a thing!" New player obliterates the "landing fleet", congratulations, captain, hope you got your sea legs, as a reward, here is your first ship - the Erie. Second mission: Maneuver out of Beer island's port with the Eire. WASD. Fantastic. Third mission: Night came, and there are japanese patrol ships and floatplanes in these waters, sneak past those with your Eire. Don't fire, look at your minimap, 2km proxy distance, we got a stormy region over there, use it, etc. Fourth mission: We are almost out of the dangerous zone, but a japanese shore battery spotted us and opened fire with HE. Repair ship damages, but not yet, we are still under heavy fire! DoT, module damages, repair party, etc. - and of course, congratulations! You arrived to home port, time to refit your vessel.

Eeet cetera.

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58 minutes ago, thiextar said:

ap overmatch = 1/12 ap caliber,

It is 1/14.3.

58 minutes ago, thiextar said:

he pen = 1/6 he caliber, 1/4 for german,

1/4 for German BB and cruiser main battery, German 12.8 cm and 15 cm secondary battery, RN BB main battery and soon IJN 10 cm main and secondary.

59 minutes ago, thiextar said:

fire and flood is fully healable, he damage is (i think) healable to half? Ap damage is less healable than he damage, and citadel dama aint healable at all. (not super clear on the precice percentages here)

light damage is 100% healable and includes fire, flood, ramming and overpens.

moderate damage is 50% healable and includes penetrations by any kind of ammunition (no difference between HE and AP pen)

critical damage, which is citadel damage is 10% healable.

That's for BBs. Cruisers (except Graf Spee) can heal more. Hood also heals 60% moderae damage, for whatever weird reason.

Torpedoes on the bow also count as moderate damage, while broadside, they can be citadels, reducing your hp drastically.

 

And knowing the basics is already the first step towards getting actually good. Good luck out there.

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5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

It is 1/14.3.

1/4 for German BB and cruiser main battery, German 12.8 cm and 15 cm secondary battery, RN BB main battery and soon IJN 10 cm main and secondary.

light damage is 100% healable and includes fire, flood, ramming and overpens.

moderate damage is 50% healable and includes penetrations by any kind of ammunition (no difference between HE and AP pen)

critical damage, which is citadel damage is 10% healable.

That's for BBs. Cruisers (except Graf Spee) can heal more. Hood also heals 60% moderae damage, for whatever weird reason.

Torpedoes on the bow also count as moderate damage, while broadside, they can be citadels, reducing your hp drastically.

 

And knowing the basics is already the first step towards getting actually good. Good luck out there.

I like how i was slightly wrong about everything, anyhow, thanks for the clarification, its better to have the right info than an intact pride.

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15 minutes ago, thiextar said:

I like how i was slightly wrong about everything, anyhow, thanks for the clarification, its better to have the right info than an intact pride.

Don't worry, I see players with 5000 games and they still do not understand half of what you understand.

 

I'm starting to believe the 'WG makes players dumber' thing. Be careful it may happen to you and me too.

When we have 5000 games, we wil have lost 50% brain. :fish_nerv:

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4 hours ago, Lebedjev said:

Woah so many people imediatly trigged because someone dare to pose a single question.

its not that he asks a question its that he asks a basic mechanic question after 5k games.

just feels like someone asking how to flush the toilet after going to the toilet for 5000 times. 

 

 

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If the Destroyer does not fire his main armament when he runs and has his AA switched off then after about 20 seconds and once outside his detection range(s) he will disappear from view.

 

The same applies with any ship that stops shooting and is outside their detection area after about 20 sections...

 

In smoke you can only see ships if they are spotted by other team members.. If you are detected in smoke it is because you haven't checked visibility after firing.

 

And finally, you cannot radar detect a ships outside effective radar range..

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