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Fonfalks

DD game play is utterly broken

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I would like to point out to game developers, if they listen, which is doubtful, that DD game play has become just horrible experience, it is close to unplayable. 

To all the paid trolls who will bark at me for saying this and point to some "great" game they had with 300k dmg i would like to say just go away.

DDs are basically unplayable due to 

1)Radars - only thing, ONLY THING keeping DD alive is that it is invisible. Radars remove invisibility which in 90% of cases mean death or loss of most of HP at least

2)Planes -

a)CV planes are unpredictable and good CV player, once he spots you, at top tiers he can basically keep you visible for most of the game non stop. Result is you either die or can not do anything

b)Cruisers and BBs also have planes that can spot you - they are more predictable most of time but you never know when it will be launched. 

c)All planes can spot torpedoes, which is just idiotic

3)If any BB or cruiser for that matter sails in straight line DD can do a lot of damage to it and kill it easy. How many do that? Maybe 5% these days? THEN WHY THE HELL ARE TORPEDOES BEING NERFED ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Overall average battle goes like this - try to do something productive, get radared or spotted by planes, killed or almost killed instantly and then die in some battle with other DD or do nothing so you dont die at the beginning, do close to 0 damage and get radared and killed at end of game. 

No ship class in game is doing worst then DDs. It was a big mistake to introduce Radars in game, it was a big mistake to listen to *edit who sail in straight line all day and complain about torps being OP and nerfing them and DDs to ground. 

Game is HORRIBLY unbalanced and you would do wisely if you would change that.

Edited by Mlddim
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.
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I was playing cruisers when the German BBs line went live.  :Smile_ohmy:

 

Eleven opposing BBs and me in a cruiser... it wasn't pretty.

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The biggest problem comes when players who die horrible to radar learns that if you stay away from caps and enemy ships, you're less likely to be radared. So they start to camp. And when the DDs camp, so does the rest of the team, because no one wants to be in front of the DDs.

 

Otherwise, DDs on high tiers are pretty much restricted to good and better players (who can deal with radar and planes and stuff) if you want to not be frustrated a lot. I mean, more than usual. Other ships get all these tools and buffs to keep them from sinking when they potato. DDs are told to git gud.

 

Just now, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Eleven opposing BBs and me in a cruiser... it wasn't pretty.

Congratulations! You've evolved into a DD!

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5 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Have you tried the Pan Asian line?

 

Can't remeber when i wasnt spot by radar/sonar or planes even in a PA.... Thats why i stoped with IJN dd's as i cant find any motivation for it to play these...

Don't forget the dmg reduce on torps hitting the shiparmor om 99% off all ships (except dd's)

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7 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Have you tried the Pan Asian line?

Yes, but it took me sometime to break my old cap fighting habits.

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People who say "handle" radars and plains are just delirious. 

Planes are faster then you. MUCH FASTER. Planes will spot you and if CV is good you are done for as DD. Best thing you can hope for is to run to some BB so it will shoot down planes but good CVs do not follow you there and just wait. 

Radars - first of all you CAN NOT KNOW WHAT SHIPS ARE WHERE ON MAP initially. Say you go cap B - you see nothing, its all good, no DDs there no enemy ships at all, all is perfect. You about to cap, last 20 seconds and what happens - cruiser comes out of some island with some friend or 2, radars you and guess what you died. 

NOTHING YOU COULD DO AT ALL. You can be [edited]1% top DD you will die. And situations like that are endless with radar. Sure you can play super defensively and sit behind cruisers and spam 16.5 km torps but wtf is that going to accomplish?

Radar is broken - i can live with planes even tho they are super annoying and i would prefer they did not spot torps, its enough they can spot me all game, but REMOVE THE GOD DAMN RADARS. 

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Nah. Think round it. 

 

Took my Fubuki out for a spin this evening, Two Brothers Domination game. 2 x Cleveland on the opposition team, on my side of the map. Took the cap, defended it for the entire game. 

 

I had good support from team mates who realise that the counter to radar is that the ships that use it have to be pretty close to their targets, and almost always within their own detection range (and certainly within range of my torps). Those Clevelands fired at me, gave away their location, and were promptly sunk. 

 

It's really only static DD play, smoke camping and the like, which is punished by radar. Planes are what they are, don't commit to sitting in place unless you're sure the skies are clear or you've picked a spot where you're not exposed if you're spotted. 

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9 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Nah. Think round it. 

 

Took my Fubuki out for a spin this evening, Two Brothers Domination game. 2 x Cleveland on the opposition team, on my side of the map. Took the cap, defended it for the entire game. 

 

I had good support from team mates who realise that the counter to radar is that the ships that use it have to be pretty close to their targets, and almost always within their own detection range (and certainly within range of my torps). Those Clevelands fired at me, gave away their location, and were promptly sunk. 

 

It's really only static DD play, smoke camping and the like, which is punished by radar. Planes are what they are, don't commit to sitting in place unless you're sure the skies are clear or you've picked a spot where you're not exposed if you're spotted. 

 

I mean it's not like two brothers is a good map for radar cruisers. It's mostly open water without easy cover. Clevelols have 9km radar range.

You should be able to capture the objectives unless they actually rush into the cap. The rest is up to your battleships.

 

It's more about 4+ radars per team in high tiers thats cancer. Makes dd play really passive on some maps. I'm all for reducing the amount of dds per battle, 5 of them per side is not fun for anyone, but that's not the right way to do it.

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All fair points, but radar is situational and DD players need to adapt accordingly. Drop hints, start to cap and leave, put up smoke but don't be in it.... it's not as if radar is on 24/7. Make them waste it.

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16 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

All fair points, but radar is situational and DD players need to adapt accordingly. Drop hints, start to cap and leave, put up smoke but don't be in it.... it's not as if radar is on 24/7. Make them waste it.

Yeah and smoke is endless and nobody really needs to cap, fake cap will do it :I

Radar is cancer and it is killing DD game play.

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While those are tactics you can use to tease the enemy, the most important thing to remember is ... stay alive. Do not rush to cap, do not risk your ship if you're not absolutely sure there's no radar ship hiding. It isn't your job to remove the radar ship --- that is up to your team. If they don't remove it, you don't cap. It's that simple. Radar isn't just your problem as a DD to solve.

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43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

that DD game play has become just horrible experience, it is close to unplayable. 

Uhh, no it hasn't.

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

To all the paid trolls who will bark at me for saying this and point to some "great" game they had with 300k dmg i would like to say just go away.

Hey, we have to earn out money somehow, don't we? WG doesn't pay billions for nothing after all :fish_palm:

 

This sin't an echo chamber of "agree with me or gtfo". Especially in a stupid case like this

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

DDs are basically unplayable

No they're not

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

1)Radars - only thing, ONLY THING keeping DD alive is that it is invisible. Radars remove invisibility which in 90% of cases mean death or loss of most of HP at least

Do you own a keyboard by any chance? Bcuz I'm pretty sure DDs speed and maneuverability play a massive role in their survivability combined with their small size and, as you mentioned, stealthy nature. So that's just 1/4 at best.

 

In other wards - WASD hacks, ever heard of them?

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

a)CV planes are unpredictable

271.gif

 

Almost all CVs - going in straight lines between their airfield and their target, ignoring everything, at best the fighter moving once every few minutes

Those few others - they avoid high AA ships like plague, they avoid large groups of ships, they fight around their teams "strongpoints" and DDs

 

Predictable enough

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

good CV player

Is about as rare as hens teeth

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

good CV player, once he spots you, at top tiers he can basically keep you visible for most of the game non stop.

Is the game 1v12 or 12v12? Did you know there are other ships on your team? Go closer to them (especially cruisers or US BBs) and the CV will go away.

 

Noone near you? Any ship who, in a game with CVs, decides to go solo away from his team deserves to get killed by that CV, irrelevant of what class that ship is. You have a minimap, a tactical map AND the ability to look around for a reason. You ignored all those = your fault you died, not anyone elses

 

Also you can ask for friendly fighters (as unlikely to work as that would be)

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

Result is you either die or can not do anything

Uhh, no. Unless you potato hard there tends to be a lot you can do.

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

b)Cruisers and BBs also have planes that can spot you - they are more predictable most of time but you never know when it will be launched. 

They are spotted at least 8km away. That's 2...3 times the air detection of your DD? More than enough time to react. And you'd have to be really unlucky to have it coming right towards you after launch, seeing how they go kind of backwards.

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

c)All planes can spot torpedoes, which is just idiotic

Yeah, at 1/2 the distance a ship would do it. Even some easily spottable torps with a normal detection range of 1.9km - planes need to be within 0.95km range to see them. Not even talking about DWTs with normal detection range at something like 0.7....0.8km, putting that down to "on the top of the torp or you don't see it"

 

And no, it's not

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

3)If any BB or cruiser for that matter sails in straight line DD can do a lot of damage to it and kill it easy. How many do that? Maybe 5% these days?

More like 95% I'd say

And you don't need them sailing in a straight line, more than enough players sit still (especially in smoke), pass through obvious gaps, or you can even predict their turns and launch accordingly. All of which let you to hit with a good enough rate

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

THEN WHY THE HELL ARE TORPEDOES BEING NERFED ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Name me the last time any torp was nerfed. 2 years ago? 2 and-a-half? :cap_old:

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

Overall average battle goes like this - try to do something productive, get radared or spotted by planes, killed or almost killed instantly and then die in some battle with other DD or do nothing so you dont die at the beginning, do close to 0 damage and get radared and killed at end of game. 

So that's what the average potatoes game looks like? Interesting indeed...

Can't say that my games would get even closely similar to that

 

43 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

No ship class in game is doing worst then DDs.

Except cruisers and CVs. If we ignore all those then yes, no other class does worse.

 

44 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

It was a big mistake to introduce Radars in game

Highly debatable, don't think it was but whatever, this is just matter of opinion and nothing more so I'll give you that

 

45 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

it was a big mistake to listen to IDIOTS who sail in straight line all day and complain about torps being OP and nerfing them and DDs to ground. 

But I though you said noone does that? Also, apart from PA DDs getting a deserved smoke nerf, I can't remember the last time any DD before them was nerfed? You really seem to be like 2 years late with your post

 

31 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

Radars - first of all you CAN NOT KNOW WHAT SHIPS ARE WHERE ON MAP initially.

But you can take an educated guess, as well as react to situation as it develops. Again - minimap, tactical map, ability to look around. You have them, use them

 

32 minutes ago, Fonfalks said:

You about to cap, last 20 seconds and what happens - cruiser comes out of some island with some friend or 2, radars you and guess what you died. 

No I didn't. Well, probably didn't, question of range (altho if they needed radar to spot me I'd say the range is in my favor). You know why? Bcuz I own a keyboard. And that keyboard has WASD keys, even Q and E keys. Taking some damage - yeah, will happen, especially if there's 3 of them, but unlikely to be enough to sink you unless you already are low

 


 

In other words - git gud

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38 minutes ago, Kysmet said:

 Radar isn't just your problem as a DD to solve.

Who problem is it to solve?  Your opinion.

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So, basically OP wants to stay hidden and without the posibility of being shooted back... Suuure. Asking for that it's like asking to give bbs impenetrable armor and FIDO torpedoes (homing torpedoes) to cvs.

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2 hours ago, Fonfalks said:

People who say "handle" radars and plains are just delirious. 

Planes are faster then you. MUCH FASTER. Planes will spot you and if CV is good you are done for as DD. Best thing you can hope for is to run to some BB so it will shoot down planes but good CVs do not follow you there and just wait. 

Radars - first of all you CAN NOT KNOW WHAT SHIPS ARE WHERE ON MAP initially. Say you go cap B - you see nothing, its all good, no DDs there no enemy ships at all, all is perfect. You about to cap, last 20 seconds and what happens - cruiser comes out of some island with some friend or 2, radars you and guess what you died. 

NOTHING YOU COULD DO AT ALL. You can be [edited]1% top DD you will die. And situations like that are endless with radar. Sure you can play super defensively and sit behind cruisers and spam 16.5 km torps but wtf is that going to accomplish?

Radar is broken - i can live with planes even tho they are super annoying and i would prefer they did not spot torps, its enough they can spot me all game, but REMOVE THE GOD DAMN RADARS. 

Wonder how we handle a close to unplayable class then and why Shima is the most played ship on the server.... :cap_hmm:

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5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Wonder how we handle a close to unplayable class then and why Shima is the most played ship on the server.... :cap_hmm:

to be fair, Shima being the most played ship is more due to the average intelligence of random players that love their 20km torps... :Smile_teethhappy:

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He claims the class is basicly unplayable...

If all these players enjoy playing Shima, there seems to something wrong with his argument.

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How to deal with the radar meta with DD's? Play radar Yueyang. Problem solved. You don't rely on smoke anymore. You then learn how to play differently.

When it comes to CV's. Well. You can either sail to a AA ship or ask the friendly CV for help and hope he's not a dumbass that says: "not my job, nub". (Spoiler alert! Most of them say that). Or! Play AA spec Kidd/Fletcher/Gearing/Grozovoi! :cap_rambo:

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

He claims the class is basicly unplayable...

If all these players enjoy playing Shima, there seems to something wrong with his argument.

 

LOL have you ever met a shima player? Radar doesn't matter for people who are allergic to caps.

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7 minutes ago, The_Baptist said:

 

LOL have you ever met a shima player? Radar doesn't matter for people who are allergic to caps.

 

Not every Shima player ignores caps, I certainly don't.

 

As to the rant that started the thread, yes CV's are annoying and a good CV player can and will kill DD's, yes planes make torpedoes useless and the torpedo spotting mechanic should change, but it won't in the foreseeable future. I get the impression you play Gearing, you know it can carry defensive AA? Mine certainly does, as does my Fletcher.

Radar is an annoyance, not a death sentence, assuming you learn how to play.

I disagree with most of the rant, but sadly WG doesn't pay me for my opinion.

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28 minutes ago, The_Baptist said:

 

LOL have you ever met a shima player? Radar doesn't matter for people who are allergic to caps.

And?

His argument did not except Shimas. He wrote about ALL DD.

If he wants to argue about specific DD, he should do so (and there are already threads for that).

 

That is no way to start a meaningful argument, if you include stuff you have no problem with.

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DDs are just no fun anymore at higher tiers.

It didn't suddenly happen either, but it definitely got below a certain threshold now.

 

Sure, you can still play them and find ways to cope, but it's just not fun. The options open to you are few and boring.

Most of the time you have to be so passive for the first half of the battle, and at that point you've already won or lost already.

 

Ironically the playstyle you're pushed into as a DD is basically like an Asashio. Find the big slow targets and try to torp them while spotting for your team. Then only in the later half of the battle do you crawl forward to cap.

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Notser did a good video on this very subject today, with a nice example of him playing clever against Belfast and Atlanta radars.

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