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Procrastes

Operation Ultimate Frontier - the Unbiased Poll

Operation Ultimate Frontier - the Unbiased Poll  

110 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about Operation Ultimate Frontier in its current state?

    • It's good!
      22
    • It's bad!
      70
    • I don't care.
      18

42 comments in this topic

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Beta Tester
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Operation Ultimate Frontier is back on line, and boy, is it a change of pace from how it was when it was first launched. I can't recall ever having been so thoroughly trounced, time and time again, in any previous operation. But I'm having fun - lots of fun!

 

I thought about voting on the poll that is already up on the forum, but the choices were to salty to admit a straight vote on my part. So I opened a fresh one.

 

The first part of the operation, where the allied battleships press on from the northwest to take out the AA cruisers and clear the way for the plane corridor, and the allied cruisers/destroyers battle the enemy destroyers and dreadnought battleships from the southeast, is mostly a matter of doing things in the proper order. As long as everyone is careful about it, there should be no losses of allied ships at this stage. If one allied ship goes down, well, it happens, but if two or more are lost, then it's bad news for those who are left.

 

Because the second part of this operation is no cakewalk.

Enemies start to appear on all sides.

 

Three light cruisers come in from the southwest. They are Phoenix-class (I think?), and can be taken out pretty easy with a little bit of team work and concentrated fire, but unless this is done fairly swiftly, their accurate barrage of high explosive can be devastating to any lone ship caught in the crossfire.

Three destroyers (more if you fail to take out both southern destroyers in the opening phase), a  bunch of cruisers and at least one battleship come in from the south. They must be met with a coordinated effort, or their massed fire and torpedo strikes can be hard to handle.

The carrier Raptor appears from the north as a pain in the a$$ and a secondary objective. She's not alone, either, as she's flanked by cruisers and usually at least one battleship. She should probably be handled with decisive, yet well-timed action, and to be honest I'm not really sure how this is best done.

 

The general recipe for success seems to be team work. And I can hear you all saying "D'uh!" out there - but I would say that in no other operation has success or failure been so utterly dependent of well coordinated team work. I have so far, in this present iteration of this operation, had one (1) completed operation with five stars. That was a battle where everything clicked. Everyone took just enough damage for their team without sinking. No one hared off on a wild goose chase at the wrong time. And no one camped like a scared sheep in the reparation point.

 

I have also had at least one battle where everything went wrong. One battleship took a wrong turn at the start of the game and was lost at sea during the first part of the operation. Two cruisers split up, engaged superior forces on separate parts of the map, and were each sunk in a blaze of glory. And two battleships huddled in the reparation point like scared sheep in the pen while the last remaining cruiser (me, in the Fiji) sat blind as a bat in her own smoke cloud and waited for death... no one played very well, but it would at least have made an entertaining documentary.

 

The sum of all this is that success in the operation Ultimate Frontier now feels like a true victory. It takes skill and effort. And to succeed with five points is something to be justifiably proud of. This, to my mind, is basically a good thing. An operation should always present a challenge. And while it would obviously be a bad idea to make the difficulty level prohibitively hard, I feel that it is usually better to keep an operation a bit more challenging than to go to far in the other direction. If it becomes totally routine, then it quickly becomes boring. On this note, I am looking forward to see how Wargaming intends to implement the 'Hard Mode' in operations.

 

This opening post got to be quite a bit longer than I had planned; sorry about that. Anyway, I am curious to hear what you all think. How do we best handle this operation as it is now? And if it is felt to be too hard in certain stages, how might it be changed for the better?

:Smile_Default:

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[YARRR]
Beta Tester
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Only played the reworked version with a full division. I liked it that way, challenging but not impossible.

I can imagine it's a lot more frustrating with randoms, tho.

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Beta Tester
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I don't know what exactly changed from last time (well the bot difficulty increase maybe?). In any case, I won't be playing this operation anymore except with a full clan division, since I've yet to get a team that can even survive the first spawn.

 

Even excluding this, the reason why I voted "bad" has a lot to do with the "kill these ships within the time limit" star. It is too random and the ships tend to stay at such long range and often even beach behind islands. So you need to move towards them. And then the second ship you need to kill spawns on the opposite side of the map. That is simply impossible, except if some people stay behind and potentially do nothing if no ships spawn there.

Either increase the timer, or have the spawns at least closer together. And I'm not even talking about the situation when the ships to kill are the BBs. You can write off that star completely in that case, cause killing a bow-on BB in 2 minutes is nearly impossible (and completely impossible for "randoms").

 

Then you have the amount of ships attacking and the fact that they seem too often ignore the player ships as soon as they are in range of the airfield. A single volley from a BB can actually kill the airfield and there is nothing you can do about it, instant lost game right there.

 

Also the repair point is waaay too awkward and small. It tends to drawn especially bad players to it, regardless if they are damaged or not. Which if funny, since from the repair point you have NO vision whatsoever.

 

Well apart from my problem with the ship kill timer star I guess my biggest problem is that this operation is simply too difficult for the "average" (ops) player. I haven't even mentioned those games where the BB does not go kill the atlanta and you again have no change to win. Maybe at least one BB should spawn to the east of the airfield. I'd also vote for that atlanta spawning earlier, since going north in a BB is boring AF. A omaha to kill (granted, a difficult thing for "randoms" apparently) and an atlanta. Meanwhile the rest of the team has more ships to deal with and often has trouble with that as well.

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[ADRIA]
[ADRIA]
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Your poll is biased towards playing the operation :Smile_trollface:

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Beta Tester
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1 hour ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Your poll is biased towards playing the operation :Smile_trollface:

Ha ha! :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Well, I suppose you might argue that a truly unbiased poll shouldn't include an opening vote by its poster. But on the other hand, I thought it would be a bit vanilla to post a poll and then wait for others to vote before stating my own opinion. Decisions, decisions.

 

Anyway, I hope I have made it clear that I am willing to accept arguments for making the operation more balanced than it currently is. If not, I do so now!

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Beta Tester
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I have now played about ten battles in this week's episode of 'Operation Ultimate Frontier'. About two of them have resulted in a win; one of those with five stars.

In the battle I played this morning, the team consisted of one battleship (a Lyon), two destroyers (a Maass and an Akatsuki), and the rest of us in a bunch of light and heavy cruisers. With a team setup like that, it's no wonder we lost.

But still...

 

...I think maybe I am leaning toward thinking of 'Operation Ultimate Frontier' as currently being in 'Hard Mode'.

 

Because the sort of struggle most of us seem to be having now, is the sort I would normally associate with an upgraded difficulty level.

And maybe that is exactly what Wargaming is doing? Tweaking the bot settings and the success parameters etc., in preparation for a future Hard Mode game setting?

Just a thought... :Smile_smile:

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Beta Tester
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Every other operation I go into it feeling that even with a totally useless team I can still salvage a win, even if it's only a no star win, but Ultimate Frontier? That's a big no. Whereas in other operations it's more about how many stars can you get, this one it's more will we be able to scrape a win. As a solo player I've only really been teamed with a good division once and so got a good result out of that. Most of the other attempts have seen me coming top in a losing effort, with a success rate of about 10%. That's just to low, especially when compared to the 98% success rate of Operation Cherry Blossom. I play a lot of operations, but since the changes I doubt I've even managed to do 40 of this one. The reward/effort balance is just too way off.  

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Players
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The worst and most unfun operation of them all. The worst thing is that the enemy bots spawn everywhere and sometimes literally on top of you.

One time 3 destroyers spawned 3km away. They didn't enter the map from the south, they spawned at this spot. Took them just 20 seconds to gun me down at point blank range.shot-18_07.23_16_24.19-0388.thumb.jpg.566b90d49d4b0f0afbfb0b3fa6cb94dd.jpg

20180722_165342_PBSC107-Fiji_s06_Atoll.wowsreplay

 

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Weekend Tester
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22 minutes ago, Kirowetz said:

The worst and most unfun operation of them all. The worst thing is that the enemy bots spawn everywhere and sometimes literally on top of you.

One time 3 destroyers spawned 3km away. They didn't enter the map from the south, they spawned at this spot. Took them just 20 seconds to gun me down at point blank range.

 

You need to figure out how the spawns work, and where you need to be at a certain time.

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Beta Tester
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42 minutes ago, Kirowetz said:

The worst and most unfun operation of them all. The worst thing is that the enemy bots spawn everywhere and sometimes literally on top of you.

One time 3 destroyers spawned 3km away. They didn't enter the map from the south, they spawned at this spot. Took them just 20 seconds to gun me down at point blank range.

20180722_165342_PBSC107-Fiji_s06_Atoll.wowsreplay

 

I share your pain. Teleporting enemies is just bad form, whether they occur at level -2 in a musty old dungeon, or in a tier 7 operation.

Btw, I like your Bender poster! :Smile_Default:

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[HDF-F]
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To be honest, I could say a lot about this scenario and other things happening as of late as well. Unfortunately I cannot make a video of this.. but if you ask me, there are a hell of a lot of unrimed things going on here. DD's that change direction literally on a dime, me getting hit without even being detected. Me getting hit sitting in my smoke to protect me and my teammates.... It has gotten to be disgusting... and if you ask me... this is the last time I am wasting my time on this scenario S...T !!!!! I wonder really why the hell Wargaming does not post changes implemented to any scenario after it has been launched.. besides Naira which they took down as supposedly being "TOOO EASY", LMAO which so happens will come back after they implented changes to it... yeah, like the CV taking off over the boundry line and hiding behind the next island.... JESUS. To be honest, I really am losing interest in this game as a whole, have gone through everything but what is happening lately, I must say it is really turning out to be not worth the effort, time and above all money which, from my point of view is only in Wargaming's interest. Aegis never had 3 VC's when it was released. If I recall correctly it started out with two, and in some twist of magic, all of a sudden, there appeared a third one, I have never read anything about this implemented change. I cannot follow the logic behind this... sorry.

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1 hour ago, Kirowetz said:

One time 3 destroyers spawned 3km away

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I thought these 3 DDs (the ones you have to keep out of the repair base) spawn closer than the "normal" waves of ships - I might be mistaken but I thought their spawn was also fixed, like the first wave(s) of ships 

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Beta Tester
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The most dangerous crap in this operation is the BB spawns (Colorado/ NC/ Alabama) after the CL waves. Those BBs are unreally accurate vs CA/CL so if your team doesn't focus kill 1 of them fast enough, they will crossfire, kill/suppress all your CA/CLs which are vital vs late DD rush.

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Success in this Op largely depends on team composition, and I guess we could make a list of the better and worse ships. If your team has more than one DD, the chances of victory are greatly reduced. Bots are able to dodge torpedoes easily (like they know they are coming before they are launched...), and gunboats don't quite have the DPM or survivability to be much help. Ideally, your team needs two BB's (preferably accurate ones like Colorado, Nelson or maybe an IJN one, Nagato isn't it?), an aircraft carrier (I think the IJN one is better, and much faster than Ranger too), and the rest of the team a mix of light and heavy cruisers. Indy seems good for mopping up the enemy cruisers, Algerie had good DPM and agility, the other heavy cruisers might be a worse choice. As for light cruisers, Helena may be okay for burning down BB's, Shchors is just too fragile (nice DPM though), Fiji is great due to the heal (but suffers against head-on targets) but the best is probably Belfast. Atlanta might be a good choice if you have her.

 

Any thoughts on the best line up to take on Ultimate Frontier? It may help out divisions, and I'm interested to see what you folks think.

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[BABBY]
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42 minutes ago, Centurion_1711 said:

Ideally, your team needs two BB's (preferably accurate ones like Colorado, Nelson or maybe an IJN one, Nagato isn't it?), an aircraft carrier (I think the IJN one is better, and much faster than Ranger too), and the rest of the team a mix of light and heavy cruisers. Indy seems good for mopping up the enemy cruisers, Algerie had good DPM and agility, the other heavy cruisers might be a worse choice. As for light cruisers, Helena may be okay for burning down BB's, Shchors is just too fragile (nice DPM though), Fiji is great due to the heal (but suffers against head-on targets) but the best is probably Belfast. Atlanta might be a good choice if you have her.

From my experience Colorado is a bad choice because of her speed, best choices for me are Scharnhorst (ultimate fast-reloading cruiser killer), Nelson (dat H.E.A.L.) and KGV (again, fast reload, great HE that butchers the Omahas with no fear of overpens). Cruiser wise, again light cruisers are kings, especially smoke ones so Belfast, Flint or Fiji. Heavy cruisers are kinda lackluster, maybe except Myoko. That said, i'm done playing this op until it is fixed, way too much frustration. All my (random) attempts this week were defeats.

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[PKTZS]
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7 hours ago, Procrastes said:

And maybe that is exactly what Wargaming is doing? Tweaking the bot settings and the success parameters etc., in preparation for a future Hard Mode game setting?

Just a thought... :Smile_smile:

 

This is what you get when you load a replay of Ultimate Frontier

 

shot-18_07.22_07_52.42-0753.thumb.jpg.a36dc9586614e2f801b8f33bb62c7050.jpg

 

Could be something, or could just be WG being... well, WG.

 

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1 minute ago, BlackYeti said:

From my experience Colorado is a bad choice because of her speed, best choices for me are Scharnhorst (ultimate fast-reloading cruiser killer), Nelson (dat H.E.A.L.) and KGV (again, fast reload, great HE that butchers the Omahas with no fear of overpens). Cruiser wise, again light cruisers are kings, especially smoke ones so Belfast, Flint or Fiji. Heavy cruisers are kinda lackluster, maybe except Myoko. That said, i'm done playing this op until it is fixed, way too much frustration. All my (random) attempts this week were defeats.

I guess I liked Colorado as it had great range and accuracy, so you didn't have to move much at all to shoot at enemies. Also, they have to be the best BB guns at T VII. I forgot about Scharnhorst, I suppose she is quite fun when all of the opposing ships are rather weak (save for the Alabama/NC that shows up). I found Myoko's turret arcs and rotation speed annoying, especially when changing targets. This is where Algerie is more fun, but its AP isn't good enough at range to properly punish the enemy cruisers. And Flint... well, that ship is a special case anyway, probably quite nice with IFHE to melt everything. Also, that AA would be good for protecting the forts at the base.

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[PKTZS]
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I played this morning a game with New Orleans, as a sort of test since I haven't used it much since moved to T7, and had a nice 160k game with 4 -stars (that fort requirement :Smile-angry:) with a very decent team. The AP is very strong against the low tier cruisers that sail bow-on, and still quite good vs the Cleveland-Indianapolis-Dallas. I will probably use it more often.

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8 minutes ago, JapLance said:

I played this morning a game with New Orleans, as a sort of test since I haven't used it much since moved to T7, and had a nice 160k game with 4 -stars (that fort requirement :Smile-angry:) with a very decent team. The AP is very strong against the low tier cruisers that sail bow-on, and still quite good vs the Cleveland-Indianapolis-Dallas. I will probably use it more often.

I like the US heavy cruisers as their AP is great in these scenarios (the Pepsi just wrecks everything nowadays). What are the differences between the Indy and the New Orleans, by the way? Apart from the radar, of course.

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[MS--B]
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1 hour ago, Centurion_1711 said:

I like the US heavy cruisers as their AP is great in these scenarios (the Pepsi just wrecks everything nowadays). What are the differences between the Indy and the New Orleans, by the way? Apart from the radar, of course.

IMHO best lineup is:  3BB's and four cruisers. Because DPM is most important here I think best will be 3xLyon, nice shotgun, decent AA and manoeuvrability or KGV, Nelson is good too because of LOL heal and more than 100mm HE penetration (poor T4-6 light cruisers). Best cruisers are Atlanta and Payfast :Smile_teethhappy: because of DPM, with IFHE they just wrecking this poor bots, Helena appears to be good too. But of course players are most important part of this game, if you want to win you have to do more than 150K damage.   

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[FDUSH]
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Actually I find the newer version EASIER than the previous one.

When I play CVs (Kaga and Saipan, if I'm bored/drunk enought I try Hiryu) I find the newer version has far less defensive aa than the previous one. In the past the first two dds had it and also the Pensacola which sailed together with the bbs. Now it's replaced with an Indianapolis which fortunately doesn't uses the defensive aa. That damn thing makes my life really miserable.

Now I can torp them and remove ships from the battle. The team suffers less damage, and everybody wins.

 

I just wonder how come that Ranger has a 2-0-3 setup... Actually I think it's cooler than the current 1-1-3 one (but would be ok to have it as long as you can chose between these two setups)

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Hmmm indeed it's an interesting observation there, JapLance. It might be the hard mode left there unintentionally (or maybe not? :D ) by wargaming. And people (especially some trolls) were poking fun at those who complained about the OBVIOUS spike in difficulty in this mission, which comes mainly from the bots' accuracy, aggressive focus fire and ability to dodge incoming fire. Not to mention the numbers in which they spawn.

Sure, a team of competent enough players is able to do it. Heck I've done it yesterday with 5 stars while sailing my Scharnhorst, I did my fair share of ~150K damage, killing blow on 5 ships. BUT also on that game NOBODY died. And that was an obvious clue that all those players were above average. However, currently all other missions in WoWS are on the Normal difficulty, they are easy to complete with 3 stars, mildly challenging for 4 stars and most of them actually do require at least 3 good players to pull off with 5 stars. BUT the base line is that they are comfortably doable with 3 stars. And it's fine that way, most players doing these missions are looking for a bit of a relaxing experience, maybe a little challenging but not over the top.

THIS operation however is IN YOUR FACE difficult compared to the others and anything less than, say, 5 out of 7 above average players, makes it highly probable to be a loss. The bots are MUCH MORE skilled here and if the players are not good at targeting and sinking them FAST, things go out of hand very rapidly.

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Beta Tester
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That's it, then. I am going to let my initial "It's good!" vote stand, with the qualification that it applies to this Operation as being in 'Hard Mode'. And then the current difficulty level makes sense.

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One last try, this morning. We had one Lyon, one Scharnhorst, one New Orleans, one Algérie, one Myoko Clone (I really can't tell them apart), one Akatsuki, and me in a Belfast. So not too bad a team composition; at least we weren't gimped with two destroyers or something else like that.

 

I managed to get through the first part of the operation with only minor damage (which was probably more than I should have taken anyway given that I was in the Belfast, but never mind). Both enemy Mahans were sunk, as well as the enemy AA cruisers. So far, so good. I coordinated positions with the New Orleans and the... and the...

 

"What the heck? Where are the rest of our cruisers?!"

 

The Algérie and the Myoko Clone were both gone - and with them, our chances for a victory. They must have gotten too close to the enemy battleships, and paid the price.

Without their guns, what followed was a massacre. We were outnumbered and surrounded on all sides, shells falling like rain. I was no more than two hundred yards abeam of the Scharnhorst when flames got to her magazine, and she was torn apart from within. By then, her bridge was glowing white hot from the fires, and yet her guns kept firing until the waves closed over her in a boiling cauldron of burning oil. It is not good to watch a friend die.

 

I sunk the Indianapolis, I sunk the closest of the enemy destroyers, but another was coming up behind, and then a Colorado class battleship appeared like a phantom out of the mists, burning fiercely but with all guns blazing. The Akatsuki was lost, and I never even saw it happen. There was a single moment of triumph, as the Lyon sounded her mighty horn - she had taken out the Raptor carrier! - but the moment was lost.

 

I don't know what killed me. It might have been a salvo from the Colorado, or torpedoes from the enemy destroyer... it doesn't matter. I was not the last to die; that honour goes to the Lyon, fighting to the last in a closing circle of her enemies. She lies now, with the rest of us, at the bottom of that cursed sea - the haunted place that is...

 

...the Ultimate Frontier! 

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