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KerbMonster

Matchmaking

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Ok. 15 games *in a session* where my humble tier 8's are out matched every time.

I can appreciate matchmaking is hard but do you know what? I really don't mind waiting that little bit extra if it means I get a *good* game.

Being somebody else's cannon fodder with upgrades and modifications simply not available just gets really wearing....

 

Don't get me wrong - I actually really enjoy the game. A good scrap is great. But the difference between tier 10 and tier 8 is a lot without loading it the match full of them and throwing a token tier 8 in. What exactly do you expect to happen? 

The real serious issue that you need to consider is that I suspect like other player - after a reasonable amount of cash spent, do you know what? I really can't be bothered anymore.

 

Forget the quick matchmaking - spend time actually preparing a decent match up and you'll probably get more money...

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9 minutes ago, KerbMonster said:

The real serious issue that you need to consider is that I suspect like other player - after a reasonable amount of cash spent, do you know what? I really can't be bothered anymore.

 

Cruiser-player I suppose. The thing with T8 is... There are way more games played in T8 ships, especially Cruisers, then f.e. T6. And then again, T9/T10 are more played then T8 (I dont have actual statistical data but I looked at the numbers a while ago and dont think, it has changed much, also, since the matchmaking hasnt changed). And since we dont have any tiers above T10 - its just plain and simple math, that T8 (especially Crusers) will see more games, where they are lowtier. Its rare to be Hightier in a T8 cruiser.

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[R0GUE]
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Nope. mainly DD. but a bit of cruiser but mx it up with CV and BB

Don't get me started on radar seeing through islands.

 

Its a general thing. - I get the maths but that's why I personally don't mind waiting 30, 40 60 seconds more for a reasonable game.

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12 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

And then again, T9/T10 are more played then T8 (I dont have actual statistical data but I looked at the numbers a while ago and dont think, it has changed much, also, since the matchmaking hasnt changed).

Wat?

Last time I checked, T8 was THE most played tier, t10 was far behind and t9 behind even that.

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3 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Last time I checked, T8 was THE most played tier

 

Yea, Bismarcks °_° Thats why T8 BBs are spread across the board from T6 to T10. Hardly any game in that range without a couple of those. Meh, but I should check current numbers tho before leaning myself out of the window ^^

 

Still, w/e the reasons: T8 is gonna see T10 most of the time, its just the way it is.

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[R0GUE]
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Doesn't make it right though....

If tier 8 is the most common then why is the matchmaker having such a hard time levelling the games...

 

I don't mind being bottom tier some of the time but when its every signle damn match you get to the stage of thinking "I really can't be arsed with this"...

 

If it were me I would keep a running average per player of when they were top or bottom tier and as soon as it starts heading one way, skew the matching making to being it back into line.

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2 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Still, w/e the reasons: T8 is gonna see T10 most of the time, its just the way it is.

it is. It's also stupid for everyone involved, including WG, because guess which tier the most expensive premiums (old school premiums at least, ignoring the FreeXP ships for a second) sit at? I know a lot of people (including myself and many of my clanmates) that have pretty much given up on T8 altogether for this reason... which is a real shame considering there are some really cool ships sitting at that tier, in every class...

And no, it's not because we couldn't deal with being bottom tier against T10s (good luck throwing a "git gud" argument our way...^^), but because we just got tired of bothering with it.

At some point, it doesnt even matter anymore whether T8s really get into an excessive amount of T10 battles - because the perception that that is the case is incredibly widespread and influential among the playerbase, as evidenced by the regular threads on here about the topic. As such, it most definitely is a problem, and one that WG should look into.

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15 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

it is. It's also stupid for everyone involved, including WG, because guess which tier the most expensive premiums (old school premiums at least, ignoring the FreeXP ships for a second) sit at? I know a lot of people (including myself and many of my clanmates) that have pretty much given up on T8 altogether for this reason... which is a real shame considering there are some really cool ships sitting at that tier, in every class...

And no, it's not because we couldn't deal with being bottom tier against T10s (good luck throwing a "git gud" argument our way...^^), but because we just got tired of bothering with it.

At some point, it doesnt even matter anymore whether T8s really get into an excessive amount of T10 battles - because the perception that that is the case is incredibly widespread and influential among the playerbase, as evidenced by the regular threads on here about the topic. As such, it most definitely is a problem, and one that WG should look into.

According to one SubOctavian, Tier 8's should be top tier 'about 60% of the time.' 

Literally every player I personally know, myself and most other forumites I know refute this fact. From personal statistical gathering, between myself and a handful of other clan mates, in about 300 games (solo and division, and no I'm not counting division games twice) we were top tier about 20% of the time, middle about 15% and bottom tier 65% of games. 

I still put the blame on the protected MM for lower tiers. But I think that's only part of the issue. 

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Weekend Tester
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last week

 

battlecount:   tier8 + tier9 ?compare? tier10

example: Amagi + Kii + Izumo + Musashi ? Yamato ( 26573  ?  34381 )

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It's been said before (I won't take credit, wasn't my idea), but throw-in theoretical T11 matches (which will have T9s & T10s only) and T12 matches (which will have T10s only) and everything else will fall in-line, behind them!

 

If T10s and T9s are mostly taken-up by T11/T12 matches, then that frees up T8s to meet less T9s & T10s than they currently do. This would allow T8 matches would have higher numbers of T8 ships. Which, in-turn means T6 players are less likely to meet T8s... and so on and and so on.

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16 minutes ago, _PraetoR__ said:

It's been said before (I won't take credit, wasn't my idea), but throw-in theoretical T11 matches (which will have T9s & T10s only) and T12 matches (which will have T10s only) and everything else will fall in-line, behind them!

 

If T10s and T9s are mostly taken-up by T11/T12 matches, then that frees up T8s to meet less T9s & T10s than they currently do. This would allow T8 matches would have higher numbers of T8 ships. Which, in-turn means T6 players are less likely to meet T8s... and so on and and so on.

Neat idea, should work if implemented. And because of this it will not even be considered by WG. They sadly aren't big on smart and working solutions to problems.

 

 

 

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Vor 3 Minuten, Aragathor sagte:

And because of this it will not even be considered by WG.

they did...

 

Vor 10 Minuten, Aragathor sagte:

And because of this it will not even be considered by WG.

:Smile_facepalm:

 

Vor 11 Minuten, Aragathor sagte:

They sadly aren't big on smart and working solutions to problems

:Smile_facepalm:

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Just another day in the squishiest T8 cruiser. This is common now. 

Teamcompscreen.jpg

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0.7.2 Q&A transcript with Lordofdroid and Sub_Octavian

 

Zitat

Battletier XI & XII, so T10 ships will be downtiered as well?
They’ve emulated it already (not real testing, just modelling, and statistics). Modelling showed that T10 battles would be assembled very slowly, the matchmaker would need a longer cue, while T8 battles would be assembled very quickly. T8 ships currently are toptier in 55% of the battles, 13% in T9 battles, and 33% in T10 battles. T8 is in a comfortable spot now. If the distribution gets too skewed, they’ll modify it.

 

followed by https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/96955-t8-matchmaking-55-toptier-suboctavians-recent-comment/

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2 minutes ago, Klopirat said:

 

Thank you. This clearly illustrates that WG would rather continue having a sub-par situation that hurts the game by creating tiers where playing is a chore and not fun at all, than having a solution that would only need to be tweaked.

It's not that there are only a few T10 driving around. And the MM could be adapted to switch between various modes based on the queue time, like it is now. Instead we have T5 and T8 seeing mostly +2 MM battles.

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I wonder if the new MM they introduced in WoT, would actually fare well in WoWs.

I don't mind being bottom tier, but I don't like being the only bottom tier.

I would like for the top tiers to not outnumber the bottom tiers by a big margin.

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6 hours ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

According to one SubOctavian, Tier 8's should be top tier 'about 60% of the time.' 

Literally every player I personally know, myself and most other forumites I know refute this fact. From personal statistical gathering, between myself and a handful of other clan mates, in about 300 games (solo and division, and no I'm not counting division games twice) we were top tier about 20% of the time, middle about 15% and bottom tier 65% of games. 

I still put the blame on the protected MM for lower tiers. But I think that's only part of the issue. 

But WG is entirely right... when it comes to the russian server.

The tier 8 matchmaking madness is purely an issue for the EU server, due to how the playerbase concentrates on the different tiers. Ru server do gets that "55% of being top tier in tier 8".

 

As such, WG doesn't even try making it any better, because they mostly balance the game around the Russian server meta.

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7 hours ago, KerbMonster said:

Doesn't make it right though....

If tier 8 is the most common then why is the matchmaker having such a hard time levelling the games...

 

I don't mind being bottom tier some of the time but when its every signle damn match you get to the stage of thinking "I really can't be arsed with this"...

 

If it were me I would keep a running average per player of when they were top or bottom tier and as soon as it starts heading one way, skew the matching making to being it back into line.

Weel, must be a bit of bad luck there too. I am currently playing Mogami (tier8 Cruiser), trying to get my gameplay in her up to par, you know and I tend to get a fairly balanced game spread most of the time. Yeah, there are the tier 10 games about 1/3 of the time but for the rest is is either top tier of "just" tier 9 games, which are not too bad. And in any case it should be easier in a DD. I used to main on DD's before deciding to move on to Cruisers and it is far easier to play a DD in a tier 10 match than it is a Cruiser (especially a bottom-tier one), I can tell you (because you still have the stealth and ability to torp from stealth). Sometiimes I get a few days, when it is all tier 10 matches, but it all balances out later on, I guess that is what "random" really means. Of course, might also have something to do with the fact that there may not be too many DD available at the time (because of huge radar influx due to US CL line) and that's why MM will just grab any DD within range to balance it out. I'm guessing you end up in tier 10 games so often because folks are now  getting up to Worchester in US CL line and testing it out in mass, so there's overpopulation of that ship causing lots more pressure towards higher tier matches than usual. :cap_old:

 

My advise is, if it get s real bad - Just be smart abouttit, don't just obstinately stick to the same boat all the time but switch to playing something else - A Cruiser perhaps for a while, there's no lack of those for the time being and you'll easily get more balanced tier distribution.:cap_like:

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8 hours ago, KerbMonster said:

If it were me I would keep a running average per player of when they were top or bottom tier and as soon as it starts heading one way, skew the matching making to being it back into line.

 

I hear you. But that counter would pretty much spill over very quick, due to how the ships from T6 to T10 are played. Again, mathematics and studd. It could however create T8-only-games...

 

@Klopirat - the thing about the long waiting times for matchmaking is a complete myth and scapegoat. If you add up all the numbers of ships played at a tier and devide it through the time and that you need 24 players per round, you can see how long it will take to start a game. Its on avarage a couple of seconds. That would mean, if you limit matchmaking to exactly one tier: Playing at peak hours, like 5 pm to 11 pm - instant game. The hours around that - few seconds prolly. Only during the off hours, like 3 am to 11 am or smth, youd need to wait some time.

 

8 hours ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

Literally every player I personally know, myself and most other forumites I know refute this fact. From personal statistical gathering, between myself and a handful of other clan mates, in about 300 games (solo and division, and no I'm not counting division games twice) we were top tier about 20% of the time, middle about 15% and bottom tier 65% of games. 

 

This sounds about right. My experiance aswell. And I spend almost 1k games on T8.

 

8 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

it is. It's also stupid for everyone involved, including WG, because guess which tier the most expensive premiums (old school premiums at least, ignoring the FreeXP ships for a second) sit at? I know a lot of people (including myself and many of my clanmates) that have pretty much given up on T8 altogether for this reason... which is a real shame considering there are some really cool ships sitting at that tier, in every class...

And no, it's not because we couldn't deal with being bottom tier against T10s (good luck throwing a "git gud" argument our way...^^), but because we just got tired of bothering with it.

 

True. I cant get myself to select a T8 ship anymore, cuz I get a bad feeling in my stomach right away. Same goes for my clan-/division mates. A little sidenote about the premiums: Here is what I suspect. People by T8 premiums. then they are low tier all the time. They see how strong are the T10 BBs. the "I want that too" feeling kicks in. Ofc, we all know, many Premium players skipped the whole grinding thing. So they need Free XP to get from low tier to T10. How do one get enough Free XP...? Thats right. Once you were willing to spend that money on one T8 Premium BB, its not a high wall to climb to free-xp a T 10 BB with money.

 

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11 hours ago, KerbMonster said:

(..)

1st of all ypu are playing during the night when the servers population is low. What do you expect?

 

2nd - you play DDs and still whine? Literally the least affected class? For real?

 

3rd - “mix in BBs and CVs” - tier 8 BBs (all except Monarch) are more than capable of fighting tier 10 ships. Yes, it’s an uphill struggle, but they are capable of doing that. CVs? Yeah, they get shafted hard, but that has been a thing in every tier so you should jave been used to it by now

 

4th - 95% bottom tier? My 200+ t8 battles in the last half year show about 55% of them are t10 matches, so that 95% seems highly overexagerated. Unless, of course, you can prove me wrong about this one?

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12 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

As such, it most definitely is a problem, and one that WG should look into.

They won't.

 

Just as the old economy inflated, they "solved" that by totally ignoring it and setting up a new economy for people to dump real money in.

 

Like so they will solve the inflation of (the worth of) tier 8 ships by keeping spewing out tier nines for people to dump real money in. (which in turn will also screw tier seven premiums (& silvers) more & more)

 

And sure, officially those tier nines are "freexp" ships, and a lot of people will buy it with that resource, but a lot of people will also unlock locked XP with doubloons, especially when, like you said, word about how ruined tier 8 premiums are, gets around more & more.

 

 

I still play Kutuzov a lot, since it is my main credit grinder (refused to buy missouri out of principle), and even though it is probably the tier 8 cruiser that uptiers best, the almost constant uptiering gets annoying quite fast, if only because for winning I am vastly reliant upon the tier tens in my team... And only the bestest players have those:Smile_sceptic:

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[JR-IT]
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The other problem when you are uptiered in a tier 8 battle is not only how often you get that ( and i'm playing 5 tier 8 ships right now)but also how retarded the MM is: on all the other tiers you see a spread of more or less 4 ship/tier per side. When ypu are bottom tier in a tier 8 match, you see 8 tier 10 per side, plus 2 tier 9 and 2 tier 8

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