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Fat_Maniac

Streaming & privacy law

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If I was to start streaming, where does that stand with privacy law?

 

By streaming I'm obviously happy for my name and game play to be seen by anybody watching, but what about other people in the battle? Does the EULA we all agreed too cover the streaming of game content? And if I was in div with people what are the legalities around streaming their voice comms?

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4 hours ago, Fat_Maniac said:

Wow you do realise under the GDPR if you can identify a person by a combination of their game name and any other information available then it could be a breach of EU law?

 

If say somebody used a game name that they used elsewhere and a google search was able to find their game name elsewhere with other information that could identify them then that's a breach - I think, if I have just read the regulation correctly. I really think WG need to look at this.

 

I know as players of an MMO we should expect for our in game names to appear anywhere in any form, but if it can identify us then it's a big issue.

 

For example here on the forum, if a player uses there real name in some form and in their location info on their account they put in their home town and country, you could possibly identify them AND that would be a breach.

You are trying to argue a far more fundamental debate by redefining the boundary between a virtual identity and personal identity, a topic made more complicated by how your virtual identity is expected to prove you are who you say your are while protecting that information. And remember, not all of your personal data is considered identifiable information.

 

But the PII that WG holds must be protected in regulation with GDPR. If the publicly available information can be used to associate your virtual identity in WoWS with your personal identity through another platform or medium that is not WGs fault.

 

For example; my username here is Benser. All of my personally identifiable information held by WG is accessible only through the terms of their privacy and security policy. However, if you go to Steam and you will find another player called Benser which is also me. That profile has my real name and location. You can use that association to find out what my real name is, but that is not WGs fault, that's mine for using relatable pseudonyms and presenting personal information in a public space.

 

Furthermore, how would you actually prove that that Benser and this Benser are actually the same person? Maybe the Steam Benser isn't really me and I'm using him as an example?

 

Regardless, a GDPR data breach would be when the personally identifiable information that WG holds is disclosed or accessed unlawfilly, etc. Any of your personal information that people gather about you by associating your virtual identity here with personal information from another virtual identity that reveals your identity through other platforms or services is not a breach of GDPR. The information disclosed by WG in a WoWS battle is neither private nor personally identifiable in and of itself, otherwise you are asking for WG to withhold information such as individual usernames during battle. It's personal information, but not considered identifiable information.

 

Protecting any personally identifiable information collected and held by an organisation is the purpose of GDPR regulations. Protecting any personal information that is publicly available and can be associated with your various online pseudonyms because you've put it on facebook and steam and discord or whatever is your own responsibility.

 

Lastly, you should check WGs own privacy policy for what they do with your information;

http://legal.eu.wargaming.net/en/privacy-policy/

For example;

Quote

Publicly available information: our Sites may also have message boards, forums and/or chat areas, where users can exchange ideas and communicate with each other. When posting a message to a board, forum or chat area, please be aware that the information is being made publicly available on-line; therefore, you are doing so at your own risk. If your personal information is posted on one of our community forums, please use our Account Management tool to request its removal. If we may not be able to remove your personal information promptly, we will let you know about the reasons.

This is an example of how your information posted here on the forum is publicly available and you are the one responsible for the risks involved, just like the other data you share in public spaces online.

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Nicknames are anonymous and do not break privacy laws.

Voices are probably treated differently and you should ask the people in the channel.

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12 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Nicknames are anonymous and do not break privacy laws.

Voices are probably treated differently and you should ask the people in the channel.

What about the in game chat?

 

So are you basically saying somebody has no rights to say - 'No I don't want to be streamed?' Because some players in game names might be there name etc and allow them to be identified in the real world. 

 

@MrConway @Tuccy Can either of you clarify this for me please?

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The game chat is public and anonymous.

Private messages might be treated differently.

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It's public space, pretty sure that means you can be filmed or whatever. Plus, as stated before, everything in game is pretty much anonymous, putting yourself behind an alias.

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2 hours ago, Fat_Maniac said:

 

 

@MrConway @Tuccy Can either of you clarify this for me please?

Interesting question, but it should not really be an issue otherwise streaming would already be impossible :) People in your division should of course be made aware they are on stream - it is common courtesy plus you don't want Twitch to nuke you for their language - but  generally I don't think we had any case against streaming in the past. Just to be sure summoning @Crysantos too as he has far more practical streaming experience.

 

 

In any case, you want to stream, go for it and have fun!

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54 minutes ago, Tuccy said:

Interesting question, but it should not really be an issue otherwise streaming would already be impossible :) People in your division should of course be made aware they are on stream - it is common courtesy plus you don't want Twitch to nuke you for their language - but  generally I don't think we had any case against streaming in the past. Just to be sure summoning @Crysantos too as he has far more practical streaming experience.

 

 

In any case, you want to stream, go for it and have fun!

Thank You. It's really just a question of where privacy stands in terms of other people in a battle that I'm streaming, do they have any recourse to say, 'No' you can't stream me, I think under the EULA we have all agreed to waver privacy in terms of game play, which is effectlivel a battle being played and any chat within it or chat in port.

 

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6 hours ago, Fat_Maniac said:

What about the in game chat?

 

So are you basically saying somebody has no rights to say - 'No I don't want to be streamed?' Because some players in game names might be there name etc and allow them to be identified in the real world. 

 

@MrConway @Tuccy Can either of you clarify this for me please?

 

You're fine to stream. Every game has 23 other players in it, all of which might be recording, have a replay or streaming.

 

If their in game name is their real name, they can have a free nickname change from support :)

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23 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

You're fine to stream. Every game has 23 other players in it, all of which might be recording, have a replay or streaming.

 

If their in game name is their real name, they can have a free nickname change from support :)

I'm coming at this from a different angle.

 

For example - I have a clan member who says they do not want to be streamed. And I thought but if you meet a streamer in battle, you are going to be streamed anyway. And that's what really prompted the question. Does any WoWS player have a legal right to say no you cant stream me. I know it would be an after the fact thing, its, is there any legal comeback, they can use to say Hey I never gave permission, or is it covered under the EULA somewhere.

 

Basically is anybody streaming leaving themselves open to somebody coming back at them for streaming their gameplay.

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1 hour ago, Fat_Maniac said:

For example - I have a clan member who says they do not want to be streamed.

It's like saying "I don't want to be filmed in a mall" - I'm sorry but those security cameras don't care, it's just going to happen

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13 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

It's like saying "I don't want to be filmed in a mall" - I'm sorry but those security cameras don't care, it's just going to happen

Yes but they don't get broadcast for the world to watching there is no privacy issue there.

 

I'm with you on this, we play an MMO. Expect at some point to be streamed or appear in a video on youtube etc. Just pray it's because you did good and not because you fecked up big time.

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23 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

@Tuccy & @Crysantos. Does anyone have a definitive answer to this yet?

To be honest, I don't think there is one until this suddenly becomes a GDPR case. Right now you're fine with 23 other people in a random match seeing you, it's part of the multiplayer experience. In a stream your nickname might be shown to more people without you being aware of it but it's not like that information is stored somewhere by the streaming platform or the streamer. This shouldn't be an issue unless a streamer is using that info to harass said users - then I would file a complaint with the streaming platform to resolve this incident and most platforms are pretty strict these days with their community guidelines.

 

So far this has never been an issue as far as I'm aware of - in doubt I'd contact the support of the streaming platform for clarification, they're the experts. When it comes to Div-mates, make sure to make them aware that they're on stream, thus it's with their consent.

 

Greetings, Crysantos

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8 hours ago, Crysantos said:

To be honest, I don't think there is one until this suddenly becomes a GDPR case. Right now you're fine with 23 other people in a random match seeing you, it's part of the multiplayer experience. In a stream your nickname might be shown to more people without you being aware of it but it's not like that information is stored somewhere by the streaming platform or the streamer. This shouldn't be an issue unless a streamer is using that info to harass said users - then I would file a complaint with the streaming platform to resolve this incident and most platforms are pretty strict these days with their community guidelines.

 

So far this has never been an issue as far as I'm aware of - in doubt I'd contact the support of the streaming platform for clarification, they're the experts. When it comes to Div-mates, make sure to make them aware that they're on stream, thus it's with their consent.

 

Greetings, Crysantos

Wow you do realise under the GDPR if you can identify a person by a combination of their game name and any other information available then it could be a breach of EU law?

 

If say somebody used a game name that they used elsewhere and a google search was able to find their game name elsewhere with other information that could identify them then that's a breach - I think, if I have just read the regulation correctly. I really think WG need to look at this.

 

I know as players of an MMO we should expect for our in game names to appear anywhere in any form, but if it can identify us then it's a big issue.

 

For example here on the forum, if a player uses there real name in some form and in their location info on their account they put in their home town and country, you could possibly identify them AND that would be a breach.

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13 hours ago, Benser said:

You are trying to argue a far more fundamental debate by redefining the boundary between a virtual identity and personal identity, a topic made more complicated by how your virtual identity is expected to prove you are who you say your are while protecting that information. And remember, not all of your personal data is considered identifiable information.

 

But the PII that WG holds must be protected in regulation with GDPR. If the publicly available information can be used to associate your virtual identity in WoWS with your personal identity through another platform or medium that is not WGs fault.

 

For example; my username here is Benser. All of my personally identifiable information held by WG is accessible only through the terms of their privacy and security policy. However, if you go to Steam and you will find another player called Benser which is also me. That profile has my real name and location. You can use that association to find out what my real name is, but that is not WGs fault, that's mine for using relatable pseudonyms and presenting personal information in a public space.

 

Furthermore, how would you actually prove that that Benser and this Benser are actually the same person? Maybe the Steam Benser isn't really me and I'm using him as an example?

 

Regardless, a GDPR data breach would be when the personally identifiable information that WG holds is disclosed or accessed unlawfilly, etc. Any of your personal information that people gather about you by associating your virtual identity here with personal information from another virtual identity that reveals your identity through other platforms or services is not a breach of GDPR. The information disclosed by WG in a WoWS battle is neither private nor personally identifiable in and of itself, otherwise you are asking for WG to withhold information such as individual usernames during battle. It's personal information, but not considered identifiable information.

 

Protecting any personally identifiable information collected and held by an organisation is the purpose of GDPR regulations. Protecting any personal information that is publicly available and can be associated with your various online pseudonyms because you've put it on facebook and steam and discord or whatever is your own responsibility.

 

Lastly, you should check WGs own privacy policy for what they do with your information;

http://legal.eu.wargaming.net/en/privacy-policy/

For example;

This is an example of how your information posted here on the forum is publicly available and you are the one responsible for the risks involved, just like the other data you share in public spaces online.

Great post. This entire topic is covered in several different legal documents you can find here: http://legal.eu.wargaming.net/en/ - this also includes the part when it comes to UGC and your responsibilities as creator of said UGC in the Terms of Services.

 

Greetings, Crysantos

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13 hours ago, Benser said:

You are trying to argue a far more fundamental debate by redefining the boundary between a virtual identity and personal identity, a topic made more complicated by how your virtual identity is expected to prove you are who you say your are while protecting that information. And remember, not all of your personal data is considered identifiable information.

 

But the PII that WG holds must be protected in regulation with GDPR. If the publicly available information can be used to associate your virtual identity in WoWS with your personal identity through another platform or medium that is not WGs fault.

 

For example; my username here is Benser. All of my personally identifiable information held by WG is accessible only through the terms of their privacy and security policy. However, if you go to Steam and you will find another player called Benser which is also me. That profile has my real name and location. You can use that association to find out what my real name is, but that is not WGs fault, that's mine for using relatable pseudonyms and presenting personal information in a public space.

 

Furthermore, how would you actually prove that that Benser and this Benser are actually the same person? Maybe the Steam Benser isn't really me and I'm using him as an example?

 

Regardless, a GDPR data breach would be when the personally identifiable information that WG holds is disclosed or accessed unlawfilly, etc. Any of your personal information that people gather about you by associating your virtual identity here with personal information from another virtual identity that reveals your identity through other platforms or services is not a breach of GDPR. The information disclosed by WG in a WoWS battle is neither private nor personally identifiable in and of itself, otherwise you are asking for WG to withhold information such as individual usernames during battle. It's personal information, but not considered identifiable information.

 

Protecting any personally identifiable information collected and held by an organisation is the purpose of GDPR regulations. Protecting any personal information that is publicly available and can be associated with your various online pseudonyms because you've put it on facebook and steam and discord or whatever is your own responsibility.

 

Lastly, you should check WGs own privacy policy for what they do with your information;

http://legal.eu.wargaming.net/en/privacy-policy/

For example;

This is an example of how your information posted here on the forum is publicly available and you are the one responsible for the risks involved, just like the other data you share in public spaces online.

Thank you. Iwas about to post something similar but then saw you had already covered it. I hate it when people freak out about GDPR without actually knowing what it is.

 

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On 18/07/2018 at 1:59 PM, wilkatis_LV said:

It's public space, pretty sure that means you can be filmed or whatever. Plus, as stated before, everything in game is pretty much anonymous, putting yourself behind an alias.

Not quite. If you're talking about CCTV and the like then there are lots of local laws about whether you can be filmed covertly, whether the CCTV owner has to be identifiable (as it does in the UK), for how long the footage can be retained, whether copies can be made.... the list goes on! 

 

Live streaming is very, very, complicated from a legal perspective (especially if you start streaming to territories other than where you are) but many game companies are fine with it provided that you're not breaking their Ts&Cs/ToS, monetising the stream, using it for any derogatory purpose or anything which could be considered likely to be criminal, constitute harassment or cause distress. Be nice and stick to the rules, like MrConway said...

On 19/07/2018 at 10:34 AM, Fat_Maniac said:

Expect at some point to be streamed or appear in a video on youtube etc. Just pray it's because you did good and not because you fecked up big time.

You could always ask for it to be removed it it's embarrassing or you feel it identifies you and/or diminishes your reputation as a result.  Players don't have any right to record games and post them on other platforms, WG grants them a limited licence in the ToS and the "be excellent to each other" rules apply to that, too.

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14 hours ago, Benser said:

You are trying to argue a far more fundamental debate by redefining the boundary between a virtual identity and personal identity, a topic made more complicated by how your virtual identity is expected to prove you are who you say your are while protecting that information. And remember, not all of your personal data is considered identifiable information.

 

But the PII that WG holds must be protected in regulation with GDPR. If the publicly available information can be used to associate your virtual identity in WoWS with your personal identity through another platform or medium that is not WGs fault.

 

For example; my username here is Benser. All of my personally identifiable information held by WG is accessible only through the terms of their privacy and security policy. However, if you go to Steam and you will find another player called Benser which is also me. That profile has my real name and location. You can use that association to find out what my real name is, but that is not WGs fault, that's mine for using relatable pseudonyms and presenting personal information in a public space.

 

Furthermore, how would you actually prove that that Benser and this Benser are actually the same person? Maybe the Steam Benser isn't really me and I'm using him as an example?

 

Regardless, a GDPR data breach would be when the personally identifiable information that WG holds is disclosed or accessed unlawfilly, etc. Any of your personal information that people gather about you by associating your virtual identity here with personal information from another virtual identity that reveals your identity through other platforms or services is not a breach of GDPR. The information disclosed by WG in a WoWS battle is neither private nor personally identifiable in and of itself, otherwise you are asking for WG to withhold information such as individual usernames during battle. It's personal information, but not considered identifiable information.

 

Protecting any personally identifiable information collected and held by an organisation is the purpose of GDPR regulations. Protecting any personal information that is publicly available and can be associated with your various online pseudonyms because you've put it on facebook and steam and discord or whatever is your own responsibility.

 

Lastly, you should check WGs own privacy policy for what they do with your information;

http://legal.eu.wargaming.net/en/privacy-policy/

For example;

This is an example of how your information posted here on the forum is publicly available and you are the one responsible for the risks involved, just like the other data you share in public spaces online.

Cool Thank  you so much, this covers what I needed to know. Personally I have no issue with streaming and being streamed etc, I asked only because a clan mate had said he didn't want to be streamed.

 

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