AP bombs - a list

[El2aZeR]

Since I got nothing to do while dinner is cooking I thought I'd follow up on the previous massive CV post and compile a list of ships vulnerable to AP bombs. Afaik no such list exists as a topic though I made a few in the past.

Please note that this only concerns USN AP bombs. Graf Zeppelin AP DBs can citadel almost every single cruiser and BB in her MM spread as the thread I referred to above already states.

 

First I'll divide this into three categories:

High vulnerability - Ships listed here are liable to get instantly killed from full health by two, if not just one squad.

Partial vulnerability - Ships listed here will take citadel hits from time to time but are unlikely to take fatal damage unless at low health. Oneshots are technically possible but extremely unlikely.

Immunity - Ships are either invulnerable to citadel hits or take one once in a blue moon. May still take a good amount of penetration damage depending on armor.

 

I'll only list ships that can actually see AP bombs in their MM spread and the first two categories though for (I'd hope) obvious reasons. Ships classified as BBs are underlined for my own personal amusement.

 

High vulnerability

Spoiler

USN

- Des Moines/Salem

- Worcester

- Buffalo

- Seattle

(- presumably Alaska)

- West Virgina 1941

 

IJN

- Zao

- Mogami

- Nagato/Mutsu

- Fuso

 

RU

- Moskva

- Kronhstadt

- Stalingrad

 

RN

- Hood

- Queen Elizabeth/Warspite

 

KM

- Bismarck/Tirpitz

- Gneisenau/Scharnhorst

 

MN

- Henry IV

- Saint-Louis

- Charles Martel

- Algerie

 

RM

- Roma

 

Partial vulnerability

Spoiler

USN

- Baltimore

- Cleveland

- Helena

 

IJN

- Ibuki

- Atago/Takao

- Myoko & clones

 

RU

- D. Donskoi

- M. Kutuzov

- Chapayev

 

RN

- Minotaur

- Neptune

- Edinburgh/Belfast

- Nelson

 

KM

- Hindenburg

- Hipper/Prinz Eugen

- Friedrich d.G.

- Graf Zeppelin

 

MN

- Lyon

 

Couple more notes on the subject:

- CVs usually don't take citadels but do take pretty high penetration damage

- partially vulnerable cruisers are most likely made so due to bombs hitting their conning tower, rapid maneuvering will help mitigate or completely eliminate such a chance

- highly vulnerable cruisers should only use DFAA in defense of their teammates if they have sufficient backup, that particular teammate is of high importance or know that AP DBs won't be coming for them. Please keep in mind that a single full USN DB squad is often enough to straight up kill you

 

If I've missed anything let me know.

[Affeks]

This list makes me sad... Just like PA DW torps, sold as an anti captial ship weapon, yet cruisers are the ones most punished and impacted by it.

 

Still, nice list!

[Estaca_de_Bares]

I've read your threads about the subject in the CV section of the forum and many of your related comments in other ones, but considering that very few non-CV forumites (not to mention the amount of players that don't care to come and inquire) dare to enter the "cave of the beast", giving it a bit more relevance in the gameplay section is a nice move. Kudos for that.

 

Salute.

[piritskenyer]

40 minutes ago, Affeks said:

This list makes me sad... Just like PA DW torps, sold as an anti captial ship weapon, yet cruisers are the one punished who are most impacted by it.

 

Still, nice list!

The only real anti capital ship weapons are the Assashio DW's

 

@El2aZeR I can provide a De Grasse for testing purposes later this week

[Vr4m_]

Definitly a very nice list, even though I have more luck devastating Ibukis than Zaos... could be my imagination, too 

[HaachamaShipping]

Wonder why Edinburgh is partially vulnerable, Fiji is not. Also, does the armour layout change this much from Shchors to Chapayev? And Roon being inbetween vulnerable Hipper and vulnerable Hindenburg.

 

Also, I swear, if Amagi eats no cits from DBs, it at least eats heavy pen damage.

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Wonder why Edinburgh is partially vulnerable, Fiji is not. Also, does the armour layout change this much from Shchors to Chapayev? And Roon being inbetween vulnerable Hipper and vulnerable Hindenburg.

 

Conning tower is the answer I believe, otherwise armor is too thin across the board for the bombs to arm. With the tech tree manual drop (with which misses become rather rare) hitting the conning tower is actually quite likely on a stationary ship if you commit all your DBs. Maneuvering to avoid big hits is key here.

Can't look up the specific armor schemes right now but I made several runs on all ships I wasn't too sure about in the training room and wrote the list according to that and my own experience playing with AP DBs.

 

All BBs can take somewhere between 10k and 30k damage (from two squads) depending on damage saturation, amount of AA/secondary guns and deck armor.

[Affeks]

I got degrasse and both ducas if you want to give it a test some time.

[Zemeritt]

Nice list. Just shows how wrong the AP Bombs are implemented into the game.

I`m surprised to see no Kurfürst in that list tho.

 

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Personally I have no experience with and no way to test how AP bombs perform on the following ships:

- Duca d'Aosta

- Duca degli Abruzzi

- De Grasse

 

If you need, I could provide them, but I`m only online in the evening.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Awesome list, makes me feel guilty for not playing my Big E...

 

Interesting to know who to AP cheese and know to leave  

[Rionage]

I actually remembered a funny experience not long ago. Although a bit off topic, but I will share it here.

 

From the start of a game, an enterprise tried very hard to drop on my Worcester parked behind solid cover by sending all his planes (yep, even the fighters). I never met the guy and I never did anything to him. The planes dropped out of the sky like raindrops and I felt so terribly guilty that I openly shouted out to warn him not to send planes against US cruisers (you know, just in case he is a newbie). After three full waves of attack, he stopped.

 

... I was at full HP with 40 plane kills and Air Defender achievement.

 

My reaction was like : "Why.... just WHY !!!"  

[El2aZeR]

Added Roma to the partial vulnerability pool as I recently got some citadel hits on one. No idea whether she actually belongs in the high vulnerability category or not due to a lack of experience.

Tbh I almost forgot that ship even exists.

[El2aZeR]

Added Nelson to partial vulnerability pool. Takes citadels on a semi regular basis but usually not enough to oneshot her like FdG.

[Flavio1997]

stalingrad is the most nukable ship with ap together with sharnost/gnesy, and by extremely nukable i mean that in the 3-4 times i found him with my midway in ranked, it was alway a oneshot ( when def aa expired), even when i had only 8 dps, all 8 went for a full citadel damage ( with manual drop and him stationary)

[HaachamaShipping]

Because I got no CVs to test it and only got ever AP bombed in Operation Hermes (bot GZ didn't tell me whether I got hit a lot): Am I right in the assumption that Atlanta and Flint are basically immune to AP bombs, given their almost DD grade armour (so, overpens only)? 

[El2aZeR]

19 hours ago, Riselotte said:

Because I got no CVs to test it and only got ever AP bombed in Operation Hermes (bot GZ didn't tell me whether I got hit a lot): Am I right in the assumption that Atlanta and Flint are basically immune to AP bombs, given their almost DD grade armour (so, overpens only)? 

 

I would assume so, yeah.

Obviously I haven't been bombing many Atlantas or Flints.

[havaduck]

On 17.7.2018 at 10:01 PM, El2aZeR said:

Conning tower is the answer I believe, otherwise armor is too thin across the board for the bombs to arm.

 

There was a thread with AO asking specifically whether or not that counts as citadel. Some redshirt, maybe Conway, told him no.

 

Now ofc you have to regard information from WG as inherently distrustful and if somebody knows how this game works, its clearly NOT them. So what you do with that info is up to you, just thought I made it available to you - nonjudgemental ofc.

 

Anyway summoning @Aotearas because he had the actual conversation - I just remember stumbling upon it - and can maybe provide the link.

 

 

€: If its just about the conning tower arming the bombs and then exploding in the cit - you are right ofc.

[El2aZeR]

7 minutes ago, havaduck said:

If its just about the conning tower arming the bombs and then exploding in the cit - you are right ofc.

 

Yeah, I think it's just that. Can't explain it otherwise as turrets should just eat the bomb.

[havaduck]

13 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yeah, I think it's just that. Can't explain it otherwise as turrets should just eat the bomb.

 

Thats the experience yes. But recently I had something odd - I scored a single hit (BB AP) that did full regular pen damage. But I also destroyed a turret (temporarily). I guess it was the fun of engaging damage system of the turret eating the shell and then the shell exploded twice.

 

Cant proof it because it was in one game during a game session but I will keep an eye on it as hard as it is: A highly rare constellation in order to obtain proof.

 

What I am trying to say is, the damage system could still be the culprit - broken as it is. BB turrets are big and heavily armored - they could eat the shells properly. Cruiser turrets, like the 25 mm joke on IJN, get penned by HE and maybe overpenned by AP bombs - and then instead of just getting eaten, the shell/bomb in this case does damage for a second time.

[El2aZeR]

3 minutes ago, havaduck said:

What I am trying to say is, the damage system could still be the culprit

 

I mean, considering we've had cases of Minos getting citadels on Montys anything is possible, really. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Aotearas]

15 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yeah, I think it's just that. Can't explain it otherwise as turrets should just eat the bomb.

Wouldn't explain how in some cases you get citadels at a bow on angled BB that you can't overmatch and having had aimed at the superstructure (and presumably having hit the superstructure and conning tower according to where you saw the shells hitting), or in even more extreme cases how I once managed to citadel a bow tanking FdG with my Neptune ... if conning tower doesn't count as citadel then there must be something different going extremely wonky.

 

But I digress, this isn't something to be tinfoil-hatted in this thread.

[lup3s]

On 17-7-2018 at 10:01 PM, El2aZeR said:

Conning tower is the answer I believe

 

Conning tower is not regarded as a citadel, if MrConway is correct (I asked this in another thread; have to look up which one when I have access to my pc).

[HaachamaShipping]

3 minutes ago, lup3s said:

 

Conning tower is not regarded as a citadel, if MrConway is correct (I asked this in another thread; have to look up which one when I have access to my pc).

But it has a roof that can set off the fuze.

[lup3s]

4 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

But it has a roof that can set off the fuze.

 

Seems like I misunderstood that sentence then 

[Lord_WC]

19 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Obviously I haven't been bombing many Atlantas or Flints.

I have an Atlanta somewhere lying around if you want to try it.