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MassiveDYT

DD capping, in radar meta, is for the birds

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I just had an epiphany , looking at my recent stats with my favorite ship (Gearing + New Torps <333) , cap contesting is just not worth it, 2 out of 3 times your team just doesn't bother to assist you, you get radared by more competent cruisers on enemy team, and you have to hide behind islands for safety or just scuttle away completely.

 

With my beloved torpedo boat Gearing, every time I just completely abandon the idea of caping, and go torp flanking instead, i get tremendously more consistent results, and in fact more victories over the long run.

 

 

I think because the radar meta is here to stay (which I honestly don't mind, I know how to work around radar timings on all radar ships, I know how to position well, it's not really a problem, however the RNG nature of matchmaking, and teams that you get ((sometimes they support you, sometimes you get zerged and realize that your backup has just wandered away and have no interest in helping, you never know what you will get)) makes the capping process a bit inconsistent, sometimes even if you played absolutely perfect, you get radared, random shell from a conqueror miles away lobing over a mountain strikes you and you get broken in half and that's the end of it))) 

 

The more I think about it, the more i realize that capping is just not worth it for DD's , especially torpedo capable DD's, instead, if all dd's stopped going capping altogether, i know it wont happen because of team pressure, but let's assume one day all DD players come to the same realization that Radar Minigame is just not worth it, and go torp flanking caps instead, screening or zerging BB's early, what happens then? Cruisers can go brawling slugging instead, or capping is done more situationally midgame after radar pressure is relieved.

 

Perhaps this type of gameplay is what WG is going for, but currently , in the radar meta, DD capping is just not consistent enough to bother really, what I found best is that I will rush a cap, and if RPF shows enemies near I just start moving towards border, position myself behind enemy lines outside radar range, and torp spam favorite CL camping spots blindly, which yields a phenomenal amount of early CL kills, alleviates radar pressure, and increases win rate, at least for me.

 

Long story short, I think I figured out the main problem with radar meta - it requires tremendous teamwork to play in, if you are a solo player, you are already at a disadvantage by default, if you don't have a team that is willing to go the distance in supporting you, you are even at a greater disadvantage, none of these you actually have that much control over.

 

And in all WG games, especially WoT and WoW, you always have the option of taking a strong vehicle that you are good with, and solo carrying by playing in a way that you have most control, you control engagements, snipe , or torp, or shell out of ambush, you can certainly do that with tanks, and you can certainly do that with ships, but my point is, if as a dd, you get dragged into radar minigame, you lose a good 60-70% of that control over engagements, there are too many factors that you cant control, which makes you vulnerable (think about it, element of surprise and stealth is 70% of your effectiveness as a DD, and radar mini game anchors you in a small condensed area, with the possibility of you getting exposed, the more you think about it the more like madness it seems ), and triffles your solo-carry capabilities?

 

So why bother? If you can abandon caps, go flank, ambush and sink CL's and BB's, and cap when it's safe, you will see more wins and better results over the long run, I certain ly do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

Not saying you should play like this, but something to try / consider :cap_yes:

 

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Yeah, it's always annoying to try to cap, and lose half your hitpoints even if you win. I tend to stay out of the cap and try to spot, but usually the team is hanging so far back they can't do any damage anyway. What the game really needs is a significant reduction in gun range for BBs so they stop humping the map edge. 

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First game after making this thread, I tried going to cap early, saw RPF going my way, disengaged, went to channel at G4, (2 minutes into the game) zoned blind torps towards where enemy bb's tend to travel early, first volley got 2 torpedo hits in first minute :) I would have gotten the entire volley , but my torps got radared and they started turning, while avoiding radar I spotted and shot at some cruisers, making them waste their radars on me, but juking on island corner and speed tanking they barely hit me, maybe 10% of my hp, but that just increased my torp reload time, so gg. After that I went behind enemy lines, shadowed 3 bbs, one salvo was completely screened by Z's radar, otherwise would have hit , and I would have been at twice the damage, but others landed for a decent, below average result.

 

e7wyW0c.jpg

 

I tried to cap, team was simply not interested, I tried asking for help caping, no reaction, tried supporting friendly dd's but they both got obliterated by radar, and same would have happened to me if I didn't decide to simply not get involved in radar minigame.

 

If I tried to brute force it,  I would have died far earlier than I did (I wasn't suppose to die at all, but I was getting a bit balsy, and misjudged Z's position who was supporting his bb's because I was harassing them, well played to him)


Case in point, instead of trying to bruteforce what I simply had no control or power over, with a team that had no interest in team playing (I was the only one pinging commands, trying to rally the team, trying to communicate, and it's ok, we all get games like this) - I decided to go my way, use my ship to it's strengths rather than play into it's weakness (capping radar minigame), in a terrible game I came with a result like this:

 

And you know what, I'll take this controlled result over capping RNG minigame any day :cap_yes: 

 

*edited*

Edited by NickMustaine
Image removed due to naming and shaming
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If you know the radar timers, then you know how to cap.

When you evade the radar ships often enough, they can get impatient. And not all radar ships hide behind islands. One can get them one by one.

 

And radar ships cannot be everywhere.

 

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4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

If you know the radar timers, then you know how to cap.

When you evade the radar ships often enough, they can get impatient. And not all radar ships hide behind islands. One can get them one by one.

 

And radar ships cannot be everywhere.

 

 

You didn't read a single word of my post :P

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5 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

 

You didn't read a single word of my post :P

That would be impossible....

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Just now, ColonelPete said:

That would be impossible....

read the post

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Maybe you should make up your mind about what you think I did and did not do...

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15 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

You didn't read a single word of my post :P

 

Bah, it's not very worth it. [:o]

In short, you complain, how bad it's for you to play a team game, with your team.

 

Your conclusion is because my team don't help me, i will play "solo hunter" and leave caps to my ennemy #ddisnotaclasstocap.

So yeah, maybe it work for you, but have a general rule to play a map is just dumb.

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11 ore fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

Maybe you should make up your mind about what you think I did and did not do...

 

Literally in 3rd lane of my post I go on extensively about radar timings , which I'm well aware off, yet your first reply to my post is to teach me about radar times with a useless video.

 

You didn't read the post, that could not be any more clear mate. :cap_old:

 

11 ore fa, Lebedjev ha scritto:

 

Bah, it's not very worth it. [:o]

In short, you complain, how bad it's for you to play a team game, with your team.

 

Your conclusion is because my team don't help me, i will play "solo hunter" and leave caps to my ennemy #ddisnotaclasstocap.

So yeah, maybe it work for you, but have a general rule to play a map is just dumb.

 

The only thing I agree with your reply is the hashtag, good hashtag, think I will take it #ddisnotaclasstocap

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Yeah and in your dummy world, CV was create to be the class to cap.

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7 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

 

Literally in 3rd lane of my post I go on extensively about radar timings , which I'm well aware off, yet your first reply to my post is to teach me about radar times with a useless video.

 

You didn't read the post, that could not be any more clear mate. :cap_old:

I am not teaching you anything...

You said you know about radar timings. I said, then you know how to cap. It that really that difficult to understand?

 

And the video has nothing to do with radar timers. I just wrote that radar ships cannot be everywhere and posted the video for that...

 

Stop being so defensive! I am not going to hurt you.

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3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I am not teaching you anything...

You said you know about radar timings. I said, then you know how to cap. It that really that difficult to understand?

 

And the video has nothing to do with radar timers. I just wrote that radar ships cannot be everywhere and posted the video for that...

 

It's quite obvious that neither of us have any interest in what the other one has to say, so let's just go our separate ways

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Then do not post on the forum if that is the case...

 

The thread was fine, until you started attacking me for daring to post here...

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11 ore fa, ColonelPete ha scritto:

Then do not post on the forum if that is the case...

 

The thread was fine, until you started attacking me for daring to post here...

 

Another fine result completely disregarding capping

 

CVRbzeB.png

 

Uhmemcf.png

 

I also now get 100k+ spotting dmg per game on average, this is just wonderful :cap_win:

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What did you try to accomplish by showing us an end result, when your subjet is about how you succes in the role of DD to play without cap ?

Because if it's the result of a standard battle, yeah... 

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57 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

*snip*

1) you faced 2 radars, possibly 3 if the Chung Mu was running radar mod, which is not likely.

2) Z52 does not have radar, but it does have Hydro, which spots torps and ships. It has a very short range compared to a radar but lasts significantly longer.

3) Radar does not spot torps, but hydro does.

4) You came up against a division from my clan. They will work together very closely to contest DD's. The picture you posted shows the Z52 sailing away and at 6 ish km away with some smoke behind you. I imagine you smoked up, he aggressively prosecuted you in your smoke with hydro up, and the inevitable happened.

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Capping at the start of the game is atm not very wise.

Instead wait a bit, scout for the team and when you can get the cap without to much enemy resistance then go for it.

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10 ore fa, RobS80 ha scritto:

 

4) You came up against a division from my clan. They will work together very closely to contest DD's. The picture you posted shows the Z52 sailing away and at 6 ish km away with some smoke behind you. I imagine you smoked up, he aggressively prosecuted you in your smoke with hydro up, and the inevitable happened.

 

Actually I was quite low hp, sailed out of smoke and Z visually spotted me, didn't expect him to be that close, I avoided his surveillance ez pz

 

10 ore fa, Arakus ha scritto:

Capping at the start of the game is atm not very wise.

Instead wait a bit, scout for the team and when you can get the cap without to much enemy resistance then go for it.

Aye mate, spend first half torping BBs and CL camps, then capping is fine

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1 hour ago, MassiveDYT said:

So why bother? If you can abandon caps, go flank, ambush and sink CL's and BB's, and cap when it's safe, you will see more wins and better results over the long run, I certain ly do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

hmm, I hate to be that guy but

 

If I go check the 2 most "recent" colums on https://eu.warships.today/player/500007896/MassiveDYT for your gearing

 

last 751 days: 404 gearing games: 47.03% winrate: 44K avg dmg

 

vs "new tactics" in

last 2 days: 21 gearing games: 28.5% winrate: 34K avg dmg

 

 

So I'm gonna bet you're not gonna find a lot of converts here...

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Just now, Saiyko said:

hmm, I hate to be that guy but

 

If I go check the 2 most "recent" colums on https://eu.warships.today/player/500007896/MassiveDYT for your gearing

 

last 751 days: 404 gearing games: 47.03% winrate: 44K avg dmg

 

vs "new tactics" in

last 2 days: 21 gearing games: 28.5% winrate: 34K avg dmg

 

 

So I'm gonna bet you're not gonna find a lot of converts here...

 

Aha, can you see the date of when those games were actually played? If not then you look mighty silly... Just saying

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11 ore fa, MassiveDYT ha scritto:

First game after making this thread, I tried going to cap early, saw RPF going my way, disengaged, went to channel at G4, (2 minutes into the game) zoned blind torps towards where enemy bb's tend to travel early, first volley got 2 torpedo hits in first minute :) I would have gotten the entire volley , but my torps got radared and they started turning, while avoiding radar I spotted and shot at some cruisers, making them waste their radars on me, but juking on island corner and speed tanking they barely hit me, maybe 10% of my hp, but that just increased my torp reload time, so gg. After that I went behind enemy lines, shadowed 3 bbs, one salvo was completely screened by Z's radar, otherwise would have hit , and I would have been at twice the damage, but others landed for a decent, below average result.

 

e7wyW0c.jpg

 

I tried to cap, team was simply not interested, I tried asking for help caping, no reaction, tried supporting friendly dd's but they both got obliterated by radar, and same would have happened to me if I didn't decide to simply not get involved in radar minigame.

 

If I tried to brute force it,  I would have died far earlier than I did (I wasn't suppose to die at all, but I was getting a bit balsy, and misjudged Z's position who was supporting his bb's because I was harassing them, well played to him)


Case in point, instead of trying to bruteforce what I simply had no control or power over, with a team that had no interest in team playing (I was the only one pinging commands, trying to rally the team, trying to communicate, and it's ok, we all get games like this) - I decided to go my way, use my ship to it's strengths rather than play into it's weakness (capping radar minigame), in a terrible game I came with a result like this:

 

And you know what, I'll take this controlled result over capping RNG minigame any day :cap_yes: 

 

*edited*

Wait. He  radared  your torps?? Wtf

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Just now, MassiveDYT said:

 

Actually I was quite low hp, sailed out of smoke and Z visually spotted me, didn't expect him to be that close, I avoided his surveillance ez pz

Probably because he doesn't have surveillance radar, only hydro. Hydro on the Z spots ships at 5.88km and torpedos out to 4.02km

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3 minutes ago, MassiveDYT said:

 

Aha, can you see the date of when those games were actually played? If not then you look mighty silly... Just saying

well... how shall I explain this?

 

"last two days" means the last two days, including today. So those game were played today, i.e. 16/07 and yesterday, 15/07 of the year of the lord 2018.

 

for "last 751" I'm gonna let you do the math, because I think you could use some homework...

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10 ore fa, RobS80 ha scritto:

Probably because he doesn't have surveillance radar, only hydro. Hydro on the Z spots ships at 5.88km and torpedos out to 4.02km

neither was the problem, the only problem was me sailing out of smoke and him being at 5.8km away, which was fine, well played to him

 

10 ore fa, 15JG52Adler ha scritto:

Wait. He  radared  your torps?? Wtf

Aye, hydro = radar, same thing (it's not, but sort of)

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