419mm and 457mm

[Tamago]

A simpel Poll of interesst, nothing more, nothing less.

^{Therefore can be ignored for people that do not care (still added the nothing option)}

 

As already said in the Tag, this is neither a complain about the conquerer and nor a scream for conquerer Buff.

Simply iam interested to know how people feel about the conquerers weapons and if wanted, what they would change on them. Either to make one more viable to the other or the other one more in line to another.

 

Also, i know, my stats are bad, i never said iam good and i never will say iam good. My conquerer stats are even worse, but mostly because i tried a loot with the 419, 457 and the repair consumables.

So, no need to constantly write that iam a bad player and shouldnt make suggestions... this isnt a suggestion, just a poll and my interest to know how people feel about it.

Afterall, you can always leave a comment and explain further.

 

For the people that actually want to know my opinion for mysterious reasons, they are in the spoiler bellow.

Spoiler

Simpel reason why i made the poll : the 419mm are in all points better than the 457mm at the moment. in all, except the penetration and per shell damage.

while yes, the sigma on the 457mm is by .2 better, it changes nearly nothing because of the reduced shell volume.

 

As Example :

Just frontall Turret shot with the 419mm is 6 shells with the 457mm it is 4 shells.

with the average hit ratio of ~33% the 419mm will hit with 2 shells and the 457mm with 1 or 2 shells

Both have the same dispersion so both will hit in the same region

Because the 457mm have a .2 higher sigma the chance is slightly higher (it really is only slightly higher) for that one or two shells that hit to be closer to the aimed point

the 419mm would do on pen ~8,6k damage and the 457mm around 9,9k damage (if both shells hit)

 

 

on this example you would normally suggest the 457mm are the better option, but they arent because of the accurity. As written above , the 9,9k Damage only happens if both actually hit wich on a 33% hit ratio is not the highest chance.

The volume of shells alone make in the end the biggest difference, especially if you decide to shoot HE. Firechance afterall is calculated per shell that hit and not per salvo, therefore the ~100-200% more shell hitting salvo has in the end the higher chance to actually cause at least a fire.

Also the 457mm actually need 7mm more armor to get primed, wich can cause alot of shatters or bounces if you are unlucky. Afterall you have to shoot at more angeled targets to not get a overpenn , or be lucky and hit the armor plate.

 

 

So what would this bad player here do?

well, i would either remove the 420mm , buff the 457mm damage to give the more rng more reason to be used or just make the 457mm more acurate.

 

[HaachamaShipping]

Buff AP, nerf HE options where?

[Tamago]

5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Buff AP, nerf HE options where?

sorry, forgot that one , will fix it fixed it

[Comodoro_Allande]

Personally, I would simply remove the 419's. As for the 457's, I would give the AP normal fuse and better horizontal dispersion, leaving the alpha as it is right now; for the HE I would leave the alpha, but at the same time nerfing both the fire chance and the pen to 1/6 instead of 1/4

[WashedandDeceased]

4 minutes ago, Comodoro_Allande said:

Personally, I would simply remove the 419's. As for the 457's, I would give the AP normal fuse and better horizontal dispersion, leaving the alpha as it is right now; for the HE I would leave the alpha, but at the same time nerfing both the fire chance and the pen to 1/6 instead of 1/4

Pretty much this for me. WG had the opportunity to make a different T10, instead we got another 12 barreled BB. At the moment there is simply no reason to pick the 457mm. Yes, 2.0 sigma, but also 50% less guns. And when you are slinging HE, it does not matter all that much where you hit, as long as you hit

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, Tamago said:

sorry, forgot that one , will fix it

It is one of the key gripes for me for tech tree RN BBs, that the AP often is frankly not good and the HE is phenomenal, allowing decent (not optimal) results with HE only. which is just lazy and dumb. I got the three free RN BBs from the quests when they were released and mostly just played Iron Duke for module destruction missions, because you can just load HE and go at it all day. 

 

I would prefer if the RN HE strength was more akin to KM cruiser AP strength, where the AP is phenomenal, but situational and you have to still think about what ammunition type you load or your damage will be pitiful.

 

On Conqueror, I'd nerf the HE fire chance on both and at the same time improve the AP on the 457s for a start, to make the HE an ok damage option, but not to degree they outperform AP shells and with a nerf to fire chance, people will see some upfront damage, but not have the cancerous experience that makes them go and spam HE in all their BBs, hopefully. And the 457s might then actually allow for an alternative more conventional AP focused approach.

[Kenliero]

I voted for Buffings AP and nerfing HE in 457mm so that you could use big caliber and opt to more AP style.

[piritskenyer]

I loved the 18" in testing. Then they added the 16.5",which I hate because it's just easy mode. 

 

If I could have it my way the ship wouldn't have the 16.5" option and the entire line wouldn't have 1/4 HE pen. 

 

Also, @Tamago and @Accelerated the word you are looking for is "accuracy", not "accurity" 

[AegeanPirate_]

Nerf HE ( atleast fire chance or remove 1/4 ? ), Don't touch AP but increase accuracy.  -419mm

Don't touch shells but increase accuracy and decrease reloading time - 457mm

 

[Tamago]

1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

It is one of the key gripes for me for tech tree RN BBs, that the AP often is frankly not good and the HE is phenomenal, allowing decent (not optimal) results with HE only. which is just lazy and dumb. I got the three free RN BBs from the quests when they were released and mostly just played Iron Duke for module destruction missions, because you can just load HE and go at it all day. 

 

I would prefer if the RN HE strength was more akin to KM cruiser AP strength, where the AP is phenomenal, but situational and you have to still think about what ammunition type you load or your damage will be pitiful.

 

On Conqueror, I'd nerf the HE fire chance on both and at the same time improve the AP on the 457s for a start, to make the HE an ok damage option, but not to degree they outperform AP shells and with a nerf to fire chance, people will see some upfront damage, but not have the cancerous experience that makes them go and spam HE in all their BBs, hopefully. And the 457s might then actually allow for an alternative more conventional AP focused approach.

Yes, and i sadly forgot it because iam at work talking with customers....^^' it happens.

 

but in generall, yes , i too would prefer the 457mm to be more of a damage focuses version compared to the 419mm spam version.

If i would go right now with the damage statistics (wich i sadly dont remember full by hearth) at the moment i think the 419mm are AP wise only second to the montana and HE wise just a bit before the small caliber Kurfürst.

But the 457mm are basically the worst (if you ignore per shell atributes) for salvo , acurity per shell etc. the onlyst gun that is compareable accurity wise would be the republic, but they work different.

^{_{Especially with the HE and later on includation of IFHE i have my own personal problems , especially on cruisers, but thats not the topic.}}

 

53 minutes ago, piritskenyer said:

Also, @Tamago and @Accelerated the word you are looking for is "accuracy", not "accurity" 

yikes, fixed it. Happens when i dont have the time to look something up.

[FishDogFoodShack]

iirc the AP isn't even that bad, just totally eclipsed by the HE. Why use short fuse AP at all when your HE has the extra pen anyways? Just remove the 419s. If the 457s get buffed in any way, their HE should be nerfed in compensation.

[SirAmra]

Or just keep both guns so People have a Choice.

Fix the AP and HE. 

I like to have options to choose from.

Some like to play With 33% less guns, others don't.

I have more problems With a frekking BB line being "balanced" around HE than the disqussion of guntypes of the tier 10 one.

[FishDogFoodShack]

6 minutes ago, siramra said:

Or just keep both guns so People have a Choice.

Fix the AP and HE. 

I like to have options to choose from.

Some like to play With 33% less guns, others don't.

I have more problems With a frekking BB line being "balanced" around HE than the disqussion of guntypes of the tier 10 one.

 

Then go make your own thread?

 

The choice in the case of the conqueror is rendered irrelevant because one option completely invalidates the other, and even when given a choice most people will choose the stronger option. How many 457 conqs do you usually see? even with the case of the Kurfurst where it's gun options closely mirror each other, most people run the stock option because they marginally surpass the 420s.

 

Spoiler

In before I get people quoting me with, "I use the 457s/420s and I like them more. Therefore, they're just fine." Congratulations, you're an outlier. Data doesn't take into account personal preference, and not being in the majority doesn't remove hte majority from existence.

 

[Hedgehog1963]

Everyone wants the RN BBs to be the same as every other?  Nope.

 

[robihr]

i voted buff everything, cause you can never have enough OP ships

 

[SirAmra]

1 hour ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

 

Then go make your own thread?

 

The choice in the case of the conqueror is rendered irrelevant because one option completely invalidates the other, and even when given a choice most people will choose the stronger option. How many 457 conqs do you usually see? even with the case of the Kurfurst where it's gun options closely mirror each other, most people run the stock option because they marginally surpass the 420s.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In before I get people quoting me with, "I use the 457s/420s and I like them more. Therefore, they're just fine." Congratulations, you're an outlier. Data doesn't take into account personal preference, and not being in the majority doesn't remove hte majority from existence.

 

Why would I go and make my own thread when there is one open  regarding the guns of this ship? 

I just stated u keep them both so players have a Choice. I see both 419s and 457 in the game. Players feel differently.

Having the Choice makes it more interesting. How many Playes With 406 or 420 on the Kurry I have no idea, and I rly don't care. I do however care that I have the option to choose.

 

 

[Uglesett]

Heh. I didn't actually realize the Conq had two gun options, I don't think I've ever seen one with two guns per turret.

[BeauNidl3]

5 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

Heh. I didn't actually realize the Conq had two gun options, I don't think I've ever seen one with two guns per turret.

 

I have, but very rarely.

[SirAmra]

5 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

Heh. I didn't actually realize the Conq had two gun options, I don't think I've ever seen one with two guns per turret.

This past week alone I've seen it on 3 occations. Latest one was yesterday.

 

[Comodoro_Allande]

35 minutos antes, FishDogFoodShack dijo:

In before I get people quoting me with, "I use the 457s/420s and I like them more. Therefore, they're just fine." Congratulations, you're an outlier. Data doesn't take into account personal preference, and not being in the majority doesn't remove hte majority from existence.

 

Only masochists use the 457's. Almost half of my Conqueror games are with that gun option, and I really want to love those guns, but I simply can't. They are just so sad. Truly one of the least consistent weapons of the entire game

[FishDogFoodShack]

8 minutes ago, siramra said:

This past week alone I've seen it on 3 occations. Latest one was yesterday.

 

 

Thats funny, I saw Sasquatch 3 times this past week as well. Last time he was in my garage, using the belt sander.

[SirAmra]

18 minutes ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

 

Thats funny, I saw Sasquatch 3 times this past week as well. Last time he was in my garage, using the belt sander.

I got the replay of the one using it yesterday. Now show me Your sasquatch using Your beltsander.

U really dive the depts of being salty towards someone who doesn't agree With u. 

 

[Affeks]

I want to use the 457mm on CQ so much, but its just so bad compared to the competition. Yamato has tons better pen, overmatch, one extra barrel, better accuracy and better turret layout. Republique gets better reload, better accuracy, better shell velocity, better pen, better turret traverse etc. 

 

So instead we use 419s and it either plays like a makeshift cruiser or an inferior Montana. 

 

I say remove 419mms and let that be a unique trait of Lion. Otherwise WG will have to nerf 419s way too much or buff 457s way to much. Currently Lion has nothing special simply because CQ also has those 419mm guns.

[Affeks]

4 hours ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

iirc the AP isn't even that bad, just totally eclipsed by the HE. Why use short fuse AP at all when your HE has the extra pen anyways? Just remove the 419s. If the 457s get buffed in any way, their HE should be nerfed in compensation.

The AP isnt "bad", but worse than the competition. Still enough that if AP were to be buffed HE should be nerfed. This would be stage 1 to make RN BBs a good addition to the game. so its too much to hope for.

[DoktorvonWer]

457mm guns:

 

- Increase Sigma to 2.1 and reduce horizontal dispersion by (e.g.) 10%

- Increase the fuse time to (e.g.) 75% that of normal BB AP, or increase AP shell velocity to (e.g.) 780m/s

 

Done, that's all. Don't need to increase the AP damage. Don't need to nerf or buff the 419s. Don't need to buff the 457mm HE. If the 457mm AP could disperse decently and not be so easily dodged it'd probably do nicely in a more niche role with less HE spamming and actually playing like a BB. I can't help but feel that Conqueror would be better overall if the choice was between gimmick HE on the 419s, or better functioning AP on the 457s.

 

 

If you're going to remove 419s altogether, however, than the 457mms should really have a lot of love. Mainly AP-based love.