Why was HMS Hood sent to engage Bismark?

[G777GUN]

2 battleships plus 2 heavy cruisers against a heavy cruiser and one battleship.

 

Technically the germans were outgunned, but they had training and up to date tech.

 

I wouldnt go far to call Hood a rust bucket by some, those guns were still very capable of doing damage and the ship was built to take hits, however... its not impossible for a ship like the Prinz Eugen to defeat a larger opponent due to its more rapid rate of fire and accuracy. Just because you have armour don always mean thtat you have covered all the gaps in the design.

[philjd]

. its not impossible for a ship like the Prinz Eugen to defeat a larger opponent due to its more rapid rate of fire and accuracy. Just because you have armour don always mean thtat you have covered all the gaps in the design.

 

Prinz Eugens guns were the best fitted to any cruiser in terms of shell velocity - that equates to penetration. Shame the class were so short legged and had boiler issues.

[mr3awsome]

 

Prinz Eugens guns were the best fitted to any cruiser in terms of shell velocity - that equates to penetration. Shame the class were so short legged and had boiler issues.

 

Its not just raw velocity. Its also the shell itself.

Also, the German method for gun design meant that they had better than average belt penetration but inferior deck penetration.

[Septivium]

From my understanding .. the Hood was never meant to be in service at all. she was supposed to be in refit. However she was unable to be spared when war broke out. She was also one of the few ships the RN had capable of catching the Bismark. She was sent simply because there were no better options. however. The idea that "Battlecruiser therefore inferior" is simply a too simplistic way of looking at the engagement. 

 

The Hood had 15 Inch guns and was more than capable of causing damage to the Bismark. and the Belt armour of both ships where similar (12 inches for the Hood and 13 for the Bismark)

 

The key difference was the Deck armour on the hood was much thinner, that's where she got her speed. (I'd like to also point out that the RN designated ANY battleship faster than 24 Knots a BattleCruiser, regardless of how thick the armour was.) 

 

The Plan of battle was to head the Bismark off, Cross the T and put the Germans in a bad position. However this situation was reversed and it was the British that where left in a poor position. The British attempted to rush forward and close the range. This was to try to get the engagement to a Guns to Belt type of fight. (Understanding Hoods weaknesses) during this time the Hood was hit and the magazine exploded. regardless of what you think of either ship, this was a lucky shot. 

 

On paper though the engagement was a favourable one for the RN and the reality of the matter is this. They achieved their operational goal. 

 

They set out to stop the Bismark escaping into the Atlantic and thanks to an equally fortunate shot by the Prince of Wales, they did just that. 

[mr3awsome]

Its worth noting that the lucky shot occurred very near the end of their run in to close the range, literally as the ship was beginning to turn, iirc.

 

(I'd like to also point out that the RN designated ANY battleship faster than 24 Knots a BattleCruiser, regardless of how thick the armour was.)

Not entirely true.

[Conn_Ranger]

Prince of Wales was the most modern ship in the fleet, as proved by her still having workers on board going into battle. So the RN could be confident enough that parity at least should have been possible. Hopefully slow Bismarck and allow further capital ships to be redirected. Worth remembering there were multiple routes Bismarck could take, which forced RN to divide its available fleet.

[Battledragon]

Bismark's run for the atlantic caught Home fleet by surprise, the old battleships of the Queen elizabeth and revenge classes could not get into position to intercept Bismark in time, nor could they catch it in a stern chase.  the only ships available with the speed to get into position in time were battlecruisers, and the newer battleships like Prince of Wales.  Hood was sent since it was the only experienced and fast capitol ship available to support Prince of wales, which was fresh out of the buiders yard with an untrained crew.  Hood wasn't an ideal choice to stop the Bismark, but it was the best that was available on short notice.

[Tick0r]

Did the Bismark have that Aimbot thingy?

 

[Andreevson]

Well, the plan of attack for the brits was so that the hood and its escort were to engage Bismarck firing from a broadside position, while the Bismark could only use her frontal guns, but a delay made it so that the Bismarck had the broadside advantage instead.

[Historynerd]

Hood was perfectly capable of mauling or even sinking Bismark. She had an experienced, fully worked-up crew, and had the benefit of previous ship-to-ship engagement action.

 

Of what engagement are you talking about? Is it Mers-el-Kebir? I do have a few doubts about the value of said engagement, as the French fleet was attacked when it was in a disadvantaged position, still at anchor in a port, so the action was something rather similar to a shooting gallery...

.

On the general topic, Hood was sent to intercept Bismarck because there were no other capital ships that could; as several people have pointed out before me, the old Queen Elizabeth and Revenge classes battleships were not fit for this mission because they weren't fast enough, and the later inclusion of Rodney was possible only because she was in a favourable position to catch up, after Bismarck had been damaged. That left the two KGV class battleships in service, Hood and the two Renown class battlecruisers to hunt down the German battleship.

 

Also, I think I've read that Hood was meant to receive a refit, but only after more KGV battleships had become available, because before then she could not be spared. There was simply too much to do for the RN to lose her for long months.

 

I think I can qualify to be one of those who consider the Hood as a rather old ship, that had relatively little place in WWII (but I would like to say that, had she received a refit as she was supposed to, she would've been better suited at facing the new conditions, as Renown demonstrated at the end of her modernization). However, I understand that the Admiralty was aware of her flaws, and the plan had been to expose her as little as possible (by crossing the Germans' T); although perhaps Admiral Holland can be criticized (to a point, mind you) by the fact that he took the lead with Hood, instead of letting PoW take the lead, because this would have probably meant that the battleship would have been the Germans' most conspicuous target (but I believe there's little doubt that she was more capable to sustain damage than the battlecruiser). Perhaps this was in terms of tradition, of the admiral that consciously and always takes the lead with his flagship, I don't know; in this case (but post-fact knowledge is a rather easy way to judge someone) it turned out not to be the optimal choice.

[allex27]

http://www.hmshood.com/history/denmarkstrait/bismarck1.htm look herre its allot of reading

 

[Historynerd]

http://www.hmshood.com/history/denmarkstrait/bismarck1.htm look herre its allot of reading

 

Well, see for yourselves; this pretty much drives it home:

 

 Simply put, in a one-on-one fight, Bismarck could absorb more damage while firing faster and more accurately than Hood. Bismarck could take AND give more in battle. Each ship had the ability to sink or severely damage the other, but the advantage clearly was with Bismarck.

 

Although I'm not sure I do agree with an above statement, in which they claim that Hood was "well built for her day"; in the Admiralty of the time (1920) I believe the opinion was at least somewhat different...

[Battledragon]

HMS Renown, with it's improved armour, would have been a better choice than Hood, with it's unmodefied armour.  However it was with "Force H" in the mediteranian at the time.

HMS Repulse, also a refitted BC, was on convoy escort in the mid atlantic, also too far away.

HMS King George V was sent out after Bismark, but it was covering the northern route near iceland.  While it sailed at once to support Hood and Price of Wales when the Bismark was spotted, it was still nearly 400 miles away when the enguagement took place.

And so Hood and Price of Wales simply drew the short straw.

[czaki222]

I can't comment on the topic cause I don't know much about it but did you guys know that Musashi, the 2nd Yamato-class BB, was found over a month ago by an expedition lead by Paul Allen (one of the founders of Microsoft).

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/03/150309-worlds-largest-battleship-musashi-world-war-underwater-archaeology-technology/

 

[Vanhal]

I can't comment on the topic cause I don't know much about it but did you guys know that Musashi, the 2nd Yamato-class BB, was found over a month ago by an expedition lead by Paul Allen (one of the founders of Microsoft).

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/03/150309-worlds-largest-battleship-musashi-world-war-underwater-archaeology-technology/

 

 

You found that news using Internet Explorer, did you? 

[czaki222]

 

You found that news using Internet Explorer, did you? 

 

I use IE the way that many people do - to install a web browser. I use Opera. I don't even know how IE works in relation to finding that info. Did they add some news feed for National Geographic?

[philjd]

HMS Renown, with it's improved armour, would have been a better choice than Hood, with it's unmodefied armour.  However it was with "Force H" in the mediteranian at the time.

HMS Repulse, also a refitted BC, was on convoy escort in the mid atlantic, also too far away.

HMS King George V was sent out after Bismark, but it was covering the northern route near iceland.  While it sailed at once to support Hood and Price of Wales when the Bismark was spotted, it was still nearly 400 miles away when the enguagement took place.

And so Hood and Price of Wales simply drew the short straw.

 

Refit and Repair (Repulse and Renown), even after their rebuilds, do NOT have the same level of armour as Hood - Hood is one of the first ships that could be classed as a 'fast battleship', but with weaker armour than just about all 'true' battleships (you need to ignore the 'simple' belt armour value of 12" as it was not that deep, and topped up with 7" and 5" belt armour - imagine a brick wall, 12" wide at its base, with a 7" bit on top, then the last section at the very top being 5" thick).

Repulse, Revenge and Ramilles were all pulled off from convoys to assist in the chase, none of them meeting up with the Bis.

 

It was Rodney that was mid Atlantic and diverted from a west bound convoy (on its way to a refit in the US). The Admiralty refused to detach Renown from Force H due to its weak armour.

[Battledragon]

HMS Hood deck armour, 19-76mm   HMS Renown (refitted) deck armour 25-127mm.  Hood's belt was ok, yes.  But the decks were the problem, and Renown's deck armour was significantly improved (prety much double what it was launched with.) to prevent plunging fire hitting the magazines, while Hood's, wasn't.

[torytrae]

I also think the RN wasn't really sure what to expect from the Bismarck-Class, they probably underestimated the combat value and the "rookie" crew, that actually trained a lot before going out on their first mission.

I am quite sure that the RN considered HMS Hood + PoW to be superior to only one BB and the 17.000t cruiser Prinz Eugen. 

[Vanhal]

 

I use IE the way that many people do - to install a web browser. I use Opera. I don't even know how IE works in relation to finding that info. Did they add some news feed for National Geographic?

 

That was irony based on, let's say, slowness of IE - suggesting that widely known news appears on IE month after they should.

 

[chaplainDMK]

HMS Hood deck armour, 19-76mm   HMS Renown (refitted) deck armour 25-127mm.  Hood's belt was ok, yes.  But the decks were the problem, and Renown's deck armour was significantly improved (prety much double what it was launched with.) to prevent plunging fire hitting the magazines, while Hood's, wasn't.

 

As I pointed out previously, the armor of British battlecruisers was not as uniform as battleships. The Hoods belt armor tampered out to 5" at the top where it met the deck. It was the same with the Renown's, having only 229mm at it's thickest, gradually thinning out to about 76mm, which is tantamount to having your ship armored with ham and cheese for battleship guns. 

[philjd]

HMS Hood deck armour, 19-76mm   HMS Renown (refitted) deck armour 25-127mm.  Hood's belt was ok, yes.  But the decks were the problem, and Renown's deck armour was significantly improved (prety much double what it was launched with.) to prevent plunging fire hitting the magazines, while Hood's, wasn't.

 

Hood had three levels of armoured deck not just the one.

Main Deck-  1-3"

Upper Deck - 0.75-2"

Lower Deck - 1-3"

While 3 layers of 1" is not as effective as a 'single' layer of 3" in pure penetration protection value (Illustrative values only), any incoming shell is subject to the probability of both decapping (the hardened penetration cone of the shell being removed) and shell distortion (physically distorting the shell and hence its performance) with each penetration.