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K98_Schuetze

Make german BB's great again (Prinz E. Friedrich)

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Hello people,

 

with the upcoming premium BB for the germans on level VI, I simply would say:

 

Give the Prinz Eitel Friedrich just minimum 6km secondary range :cap_viking:

 

As VI ships do not use the 60% captains skill for "manual secondaries", it will not be overpowered.

The ship is pretty damn long and the guns will be underwhelming with only 350mm caliber size.

 

I think that could be interesting. What you guys think?

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[DREAD]
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In my opinion the stats look pretty strong. In WOWS - generally speaking - faster firing small guns beat slow big boys. Her citadel is further to that submerged.

 

And then there is this absurd concealment. 

 

I don’t want the German BCs to be gimmicky. I want them to be well protected but undergunned. Get in fast - Duke it out in a brawl and retire (to the bar).

 

So yes to your secondary range proposal and no to gimmicky Concealment.

 

Cheers

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[CATS]
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Prinz Eitel looks like a strong ship (as of now).

She is a Kongo with 2.0 Sigma faster firing guns, better armor and lowered citadel.

While the better secondaries would be fun, I fear the ship would be too strong as she has cruiser concealment.

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35 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Prinz Eitel looks like a strong ship (as of now).

She is a Kongo with 2.0 Sigma faster firing guns, better armor and lowered citadel.

While the better secondaries would be fun, I fear the ship would be too strong as she has cruiser concealment.

 

Indeed. But secondary guns don’t make a ship OP (especially not below T7).

 

Fully agree with the concealment though - that is a bad idea. BBs shouldn’t outstealth anyone.

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2 hours ago, K98_Schuetze said:

The ship is pretty damn long and the guns will be underwhelming with only 350mm caliber size.

 

 

Two years ago, having 380mm guns on T6 was an exception.

A year ago, it was rare.

 

As of today, it's apparently underwhelming to have what's average.
"I don't understand why WoWS has powercreep" starter pack.

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Beta Tester
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Tho i would rather see T61, this one is tempting, and having concielment instead of secondary puts her out of the standart German gamplay, thats why she is a premium, we should see how she plays and then make sugestions.

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[POI--]
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Issue is, even if you give the ship great secondary range, without any accuracy buffs, they won't hit much. Mikasa for example hits a lot, because it's so short.

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Beta Tester
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Also, as she's tier 6, not 7, manual secondaries will not much help in that regard.

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[-DSA-]
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As it seems to be - more people saying its to stealthy.

 

Well, that might actually be the case.

 

So, I also would have nothing against a trade - increase spotting distance with 1800m and give therefore secondaries base range 6km.....or even 6,5km :Smile_izmena:

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I support the idea of nerfing concealment but buffing secondary range instead. It would just reinforce the german flavor by an order of magnitude on the ship.

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18 hours ago, K98_Schuetze said:

As it seems to be - more people saying its to stealthy.

 

Well, that might actually be the case.

 

So, I also would have nothing against a trade - increase spotting distance with 1800m and give therefore secondaries base range 6km.....or even 6,5km :Smile_izmena:

That'd be a better range than on the Gneisenau.

 

Just for reference, the current 5 km works out to 6.3 km with AFT and November Echo Setteseven (assuming AA range mod is used to buff an actual strength of the ship) or 7.56 km with secondary mod added.

 

6 km without secondary mod is 7.56 km and 9 km with it.

 

Without the benefits of manual AA, you are looking at around 10% hit rate at that range with mod, up to maybe 25% when you get down to 5 km. That's what I get in my non Manual Secondary (yet) Gneisenau. Just, Gneisenau fires every 4 seconds from 12 barrels that matter, this fires  every 7.5 seconds from 7 barrels (the 105s only harm DDs and low tier French cruisers).

 

Frankly, the secondary range is absolutely pointless, because if you are at 9 km, you get nothing from them (except you wasted the mod slot that could buff AA) and if you are at ranges where you get reliable hits, there's no point in having the range. Not that at such ranges they'll do reliable damage. 

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1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

(the 105s only harm DDs and low tier French cruisers).

At tier 6 it can damage just about anything tho. BB superstructures, all CA hulls except tier 8 and ofc most importantly DDs excluding tier 8.

 

So at that tier fast firing 105s are amazing. I would say secondary range will do more than enough. Lately Ive been skipping Manual Secondaries anyway due to being limited to a single target.

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1 minute ago, Affeks said:

At tier 6 it can damage just about anything tho. BB superstructures, all CA hulls except tier 8 and ofc most importantly DDs excluding tier 8.

 

So at that tier fast firing 105s are amazing. I would say secondary range will do more than enough. Lately Ive been skipping Manual Secondaries anyway due to being limited to a single target.

Unless you have a target per side, it's better though, as on T7+, you basically get twice as many hits on target as before, so it isn't much of a loss. And having targets on both sides is kind of weird positioning.

 

On lower tiers, absolutely worthless though.

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2 hours ago, Riselotte said:

That'd be a better range than on the Gneisenau.

 

Just for reference, the current 5 km works out to 6.3 km with AFT and November Echo Setteseven (assuming AA range mod is used to buff an actual strength of the ship) or 7.56 km with secondary mod added.

 

6 km without secondary mod is 7.56 km and 9 km with it.

 

Without the benefits of manual AA, you are looking at around 10% hit rate at that range with mod, up to maybe 25% when you get down to 5 km. That's what I get in my non Manual Secondary (yet) Gneisenau. Just, Gneisenau fires every 4 seconds from 12 barrels that matter, this fires  every 7.5 seconds from 7 barrels (the 105s only harm DDs and low tier French cruisers).

 

Frankly, the secondary range is absolutely pointless, because if you are at 9 km, you get nothing from them (except you wasted the mod slot that could buff AA) and if you are at ranges where you get reliable hits, there's no point in having the range. Not that at such ranges they'll do reliable damage. 

 

Well yes. We are not proposing sec range as a like-for-like trade in for Concealment or because it is particularly strong.

 

It is more for the fun and scenic fireworks. 

 

The Concealment I dislike as stealth BBs are the wrong way and a misuse of questionable game mechanics. Furthermore I don’t think PEF needs it.

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1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Well yes. We are not proposing sec range as a like-for-like trade in for Concealment or because it is particularly strong.

 

It is more for the fun and scenic fireworks. 

 

The Concealment I dislike as stealth BBs are the wrong way and a misuse of questionable game mechanics. Furthermore I don’t think PEF needs it.

I'm not saying it should be on par with insane concealment for a BB, but this is practically a worthless trade-in. Gneisenau with its secondaries already feels the limited range, but Gneisenau at least has torpedoes to incentivise getting that close. PFE seems more geared towards mid-range threat, where it can make that belt armour work, doesn't have that much issue with the turning radius and it actually has accurate guns.

 

Just nerf the concealment and leave secondaries as is, they already are the best at her tier and that on a ship that might offer some alternatives in playstyle, instead of the typical German close range aggression.

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29 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Unless you have a target per side, it's better though, as on T7+, you basically get twice as many hits on target as before, so it isn't much of a loss. And having targets on both sides is kind of weird positioning.

 

On lower tiers, absolutely worthless though.

Arguably better as youre still spending 4 points on it which couls be used on something thats usefull for getting into secondary range to begin with.

 

Then again that puts us back to the core problem with secondaries. Spec for secondaries = not tanky enough to use them. Spec for tanky = no secondaries worth using.

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1 minute ago, Affeks said:

Then again that puts us back to the core problem with secondaries. Spec for secondaries = not tanky enough to use them. Spec for tanky = no secondaries worth using.

You mean core problem of German BBs. Because spec an IJN BB or USN BB for tanking and it still has usually one of the best main gun setups of its tier.

 

Also, the returns from secondary builds typically are not great. On high tier Germans, it is basically there to deny surrounding area by scaring small ships away, but at range it is useless and if you are up against a determined foe, their better main battery usually counts for more. Only Gneisenau and Kurfürst can pull IFHE meme builds, which however are super situational (though Gneisenau can try use it as top tier against same and lower tiers with 25 mm plating).

 

In this sense, I see PFE as a welcome alternative, a bit away from the typical brawling action to a more tanky mid-range flanker, that can also accompany cruisers and has decent AA. And might be what German battlecruisers in general could be for.

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A couple of friends and I are working on a full german BC tree After we finish, I’m going to share it here with you English community :cap_horn::cap_haloween: 

I can tell you the lineup if you want, we went for them being somewhat a mix of German BB and French ones They could be rather stealthy (but not outspotting cruisers) and somewhat undergunned The only fictional one is the tier X, which is based on some of the L and GK designs with 5 turrets The main gameplay style could be like @1MajorKoenig One friend told me they could be like the “Pistolkorps” or something like that I bet some people may like it, we are currently finishing the tree and I will update it here ASAP

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[LUXX]
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With the recent patch of nerfs to the Prinz Friedrich Eitel on the Supertest server, the PFE is well on it's way to mediocity before it even got released.

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Might be instabuy then?

 

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Well it seems I will have to wait till Xmas Will buy it right ahead cause I don’t have time for missions (never got one single ship from a Xmas marathon :cap_fainting:) But I think changes need to be done I would go for this:

Considering the amount of guns and the caliber, she needs accuracy and consistency for her main guns. How about giving back the 2.0 sigma and most importantly using the IJN dispersion formula rather than the German one? One of those or maybe reduce slightly the base dispersion to 230-225? It would make her an awesome sniper And for compensate? Give her Warspite like citadel or a high tier US one. Make her citadel sit at the waterline, being somewhat vulnerable when brawling if not played well but tanky when angled? After all, this a Mackensen class which lacks the Boshung sloping piece of armor that all other german BCs and BBs have. Make german BCs the fast moving snipers, dealing with enemy cruisers and capable of scouting ahead coupled with good guns and fast movement but lacking brawl capabilities in which  the BBs do best. 

 

Make I Scouting Group great again!! 

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On 11/1/2018 at 2:06 PM, hjsteg said:

Might be instabuy then?

 

Fantastic! Whichever way, I am looking forward to Prinz Eitel Friedrich. 

Had the pleasure to be able to try her out at Gamescom and still remember that as a good battle. Just the way she felt and handled, made me think: this could well become the best BB ever at Tier 6! 

 

Just out of curiosity, any idea when this will be formally announced, what you state up there above the picture? 

Maybe somewhere early December? 

 

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