Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Strefs

Kitakaze and Harugumo in Preview!

23 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Community Contributor, Beta Tester
292 posts
5,128 battles

unknown.pngKitakaze and Harugumo in Preview!

Kitakaze and Harugumo are the final addition to the Japanese off-branch Destroyer line. Both ships are still Work in progress and the information presented here is of the first test iteration!

 

 

 

 

 

 

History
Kitakaze was a planned improvement of the existing Akizu
ki class. V7 – or Akizuki-Kai, as the project was named, called for an improved propulsion system, a revised torpedo armament, and even more cost reduction and streamlining in the manufacturing process. And while Kitakaze retains this historical background, Harugumo is entirely fictional (backed however by historical speculation – how contradictory that sounds!). WG refers to it as a presumed successor of the Akizuki line based on direction of development found in historical evidence.

 

 

In-game rundownunknown.png
Kitakaze takes up the T9 position. She’s has same 10cm Type 98 gun with which the Akizuki is armed, as well as stronger AA armament. Finally, she is the first ship to receive a sextuple torpedo launcher.

Modules
Harugumo is the second tier 10 Japanese destroyer. She is armed with 5 of these 10cm Type 98 naval guns in twin turret setups, as well as a single sextuple torpedo tube.
Both ships have a AA suite consisting of HAC 25mm guns, Bofors “Chi” single purpose AA, and the DP Type 98.
In terms of AA, Harugumo and Kitakaze are almost identical. The only  difference being the f
act that Harugumo has an extra Type 98 mount, while losing 2 Type 96s.


Consumable Choice
Both Kitakaze and Harugumo receive the same consumables as their T8 sister, which are of course Smoke Screen, Engine Boost and Torpedo Reload Booster. A fun little fact I've found is that while running the premium consumable as well as the mod.3 torpedoes, the time difference to you having your booster and your torpedoes ready is about 3 seconds, meaning that in essence you have 3-5 charges of 2x6. Engine boost is the normal one: +8% Speed, and the smoke is also identical to other Japanese destroyers.

 

 

Captain Spec

To those that played the Akizuki, you know that there are quite a few Captain builds you can go for. Here are the ones I used during testing:

Name/Captain Points T1 T2 T3 T4
Strefs' Japanese Gunboat Priority Target Last Stand, Torpedo Acceleration Survivability Expert, Superintendent IFHE, Concealment Expert
Harugumo can shoot into the next map across! AKA "this is totally viable!" Priority Target,  Expert Loader Last Stand Survivability Expert AFT Concealment, Expert, IFHE
Full AA Priority Target, Expert Loader Last Stand or AR BE or Superintendent AFT, MAA, Concealment Expert


Gameplay and Conclusion
Kitakaze
Pros:
    • Good rate of fire
    • Hard hitting torpedoes
    • (¼ Penetration!)
    • Decent Concealment

Cons:
    • Slow
    • Mediocr
e maneuverability


Harugumo
Pros:
    • Good
rate of fire
    • Hard hitting torpedoes

    • Large hitpoint pool

Cons:
    • Mediocre maneuverability
    • Bad Conce
alment

 

torpedo dispersion rant

shot-18.06.28_21.37.37-0622.jpgshot-18.06.28_21.34.24-0749.jpgshot-18.06.28_21.48.30-0344.jpg

 Why are the gaps in the centre always so terribly large? Unless your target is twice the size of Alaska, you're going to have a hard time hitting anything. I don't mind dispersion thrown my torpedoes about a bit on the edges, but the middle? really? Considering the Torpedo prediction indicator is always at centre of mass, hitting stuff really becomes a lottery game outside of 8km.

 

unknown.pngKitakaze is the perfect upgrade to anyone playing Akizuki and looking for a good tier 9 ship. She’s decently armed, has access to the 3m consumable slot, and after the rebalance she will receive improved speed, which will make her very competitive. That, and the fact that Akizuki will lose concealment (and maneuverability), should really make Akizuki players consider switching to Kitakaze. There’s no real downside, considering how T8 MM throws you into T10 matches more often than not anyway.
While she
can certainly fill the role of a support vessel (in a CV escort role, second line fire support, etc.), she can definitely hold her own against equal tier and even some T10s.

 

Harugumo is a bit of an acquired taste. While she has an increase in firepower of 25%, as well as better range, with the upcoming speed changes to Kitakaze I don’t truly see a reason to play this ship. She is way too big and easily detected. While she has a healthy hitpoint pool of around 29k with SE, you’ll quickly find that much of this will be lost in the first few engagements. Due to the 19mm all-round (and 13mm on the guns, gah!), you become a very easy target for most cruisers and BBs. Harugumo can certainly take on destroyers, but she cannot outspot them, not even the Z-52.

You can spec Harugumo for range (reaching a total of 17.5km maximum), though the high arc and high drag shells will take 20 seconds to reach target at maximum range, and most shells, with a penetration of 21mm (IFHE), won’t deal too much damage to most targets equal tier.

While these points are true and will stay the same unless they are addressed, I should mention that she may become much more viable with the ¼ penetration changes for HE. This would allow 10cm Type 97s to penetrate up to 32mm of armour (with IFHE).unknown.png

Overall the first test of the new Japanese destroyers was quite interesting, and while not all of them are my cup of tea, looking at the changes, I can certainly see these ships becoming interesting picks, more so for randoms than anything, but interesting picks regardless.


A little notice. For here on out, I will be giving away CCT boxes in my preview posts. Hidden in this post today is a secret code word (or rather phrase). The first 2 players that find them and PM me the code will receive 1 CCT Box.

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[POI--]
Players
3,185 posts
4,331 battles

Thanks for the review.

 

And I'm too dumb for this riddle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DAVY]
[DAVY]
Players
1,042 posts
4,553 battles

The fact that the Harugumo is actually bigger than Khaba! and except Khaba, all the tier 10 DDs can outspot it and It is so sluggish that it actually needs the propulsion module to move inside its smoke screen and another fact that It has BIGGER TURNING CIRCLE THEN CONC! ( A freckking tier 10 BB)

 

says too much!

 

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BYOB]
Players
2,686 posts
9,840 battles

I'm not convinced about the ships, and the fact that WG nerfed Akizuki with a bat only confirms this. With the change, Akizuki players will be forced to "upgrade" to Kitakaze. A sad state of affairs, especially since many people bought the permanent camo for the Ducky.

 

Thanks for the preview!

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Community Contributor, Beta Tester
292 posts
5,128 battles

THE RIDDLE HAS BEEN SOLVED! 

The hidden code phrase was The Ducks are back! 

Congratulations to the winners. (hidden in the text were letters with a different font, as well as being back to front for extra difficulty!). 

To those that didn't get it in time, I'll be doing more of these in the upcoming previews, so if you're interested in picking up some of these crates and camouflage, you'll know where to find it! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[RAIN]
Players
90 posts
8,920 battles

Damn, that was a hard code to crack :p I had all the letters I needed, but could not see the connection :cap_old:

Congratz to the winners!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
275 posts
3,372 battles

Thanks for the preview, I have been looking forward to the Kitakaze and Harugumo for quite some time now as the Akizuki has been my favorite “bote” since I got it. I’m sad to see her get hit with a nerfhammer (not a bat ad this nerf is quite a big one), and I agree with the above poster that we’re forced to get the Kitakaze. The Akizuki was not unbalanced in any way, it is slow, sluggish and huuuuge. CVs with half a brain can easily drop it, other DDs can outrun it easily and it really only has its RoF as a plus. It feasts on unprepared players and potatoes... I’ll be getting the Kitakaze as soon as they unlock, and I’ll probably try out the Harugumo but wont keep it... I dont like the fact that BBs and cruisers can outturn these ships...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Community Contributor, Beta Tester
292 posts
5,128 battles

Keep in mind that while Akizuki will have a nerf to her detection and maneuverability, she will still receive the 1/4 penetration on her guns, making her a damage farming monster if played correctly. 

It's much less a nerf due to her being too powerful, as it is a nerf to facilitate the extra penetration power. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[AEDL]
Players
269 posts
8,988 battles
4 hours ago, Strefs said:

Keep in mind that while Akizuki will have a nerf to her detection and maneuverability, she will still receive the 1/4 penetration on her guns, making her a damage farming monster if played correctly. 

It's much less a nerf due to her being too powerful, as it is a nerf to facilitate the extra penetration power. 

Akizuki is worst maneuverable ship in t8 and they nerf it even more.WG send radar ships against DDs but when they still can play they nerf DDs. DDs need agility to survive and it is no matter what guns dead DD have.Akizuki is hard to play with its current agility...nerf it and it is no more playable.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
3,695 posts
10,594 battles
1 hour ago, evp66 said:

Akizuki is worst maneuverable ship in t8 and they nerf it even more.WG send radar ships against DDs but when they still can play they nerf DDs. DDs need agility to survive and it is no matter what guns dead DD have.Akizuki is hard to play with its current agility...nerf it and it is no more playable.

The concealment nerf is much more worrying, actually...

 

6 hours ago, Strefs said:

Keep in mind that while Akizuki will have a nerf to her detection and maneuverability, she will still receive the 1/4 penetration on her guns, making her a damage farming monster if played correctly. 

It's much less a nerf due to her being too powerful, as it is a nerf to facilitate the extra penetration power. 

No, it's a killing blow to a DD that has very limited defensive options - decent concealment being her extremely important weapon both offensively (against DDs she hunts) and defensively (against EVERYTHING). 1/4 penetration is a laughable compensation here. What it means is that you get an extra 4 skill points (taking IFHE won't make much of a difference with built-in penetration buff). These 4 skill points are not worth the nerfs, not by a long shot. Yes, she can now be made into decent firestarter (with how much shells she spews coupled with DE +2% and lack of IFHE 1% penalty) that lobs shells over islands, but let's face it: if you want that kind of gameplay, you're probably better off sticking with light cruisers rather than taking up a DD slot on your team.

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
7,789 posts
6,431 battles

You guys are freaking out for such a small nerf compared to the huge improvement it's laughable, really.

 

I tell you that, now : One second less ruddershift won't nerf Akizuki at all, and so will 150 meters less concealment.

Akizuki issue of agility is the SPEED and the TURN RADIUS. Akizuki will still utterly destroy Benson and Fletchers in a straight gunboat duel.

 

On the other hand, you gain the ability to massacre cruisers, and with IFHE you even can bully BB with a damage output close to what a DM can do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
3,695 posts
10,594 battles
58 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

You guys are freaking out for such a small nerf compared to the huge improvement it's laughable, really.

 

It's a small improvement coupled with a nerf of critical importance.

 

58 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

I tell you that, now : One second less ruddershift won't nerf Akizuki at all, and so will 150 meters less concealment.

 

Well, you're wrong. You could have a point about ruddershift but Akizuki's concealment is BORDERLINE ok. It's still worse than many DDs she face but manageable - that nerf, while not huge in absolute numbers, is a big issue. I say this as someone with... well, let's settle for "extensive" experience with the ship in question.

 

58 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

On the other hand, you gain the ability to massacre cruisers, and with IFHE you even can bully BB with a damage output close to what a DM can do. 

You're dreaming. Akizuki's effectiveness against cruisers won't change much - her ability to "massacre cruisers" relies on the poor suckers unknowingly exposing broadside at close ranges where they eat 5+ citadels every salvo. With Akizuki's reload, this adds up quickly.

The improvement against BBs is, indeed, noticeable - but certainly not thx to IFHE. Once again - for alpha damage against BBs you want AP and a nice angle on enemy superstructure while HE is for starting fires - the main gain from 1/4 penetration is that you can avoid the 1% fire setting penalty (from IFHE that you now DON'T take) and have more points to make sure that your build includes DE without giving up on either SE (sweet, sweet hp) or BFT (pure DPM increase).

 

 

 

The correct way to nerf Akizuki (to accompany the penetration buff) would be to leave her agility and concealment alone but - instead - mess with the number of chosen consumables (certainly smoke). That way she could make up for the nerf with the freed 4 points (taking Superintendent that normally isn't really an option due to more important t3 skills) OR spend the points elsewhere and deal with being always short on smokes. This would avoid making her stronger - without closing tactical options for people who don't feel like pretending that they play a cruiser...

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
7,789 posts
6,431 battles

What, so you want to give up IFHE and the ability to penetrate 32mm ? Of course if you do that, it's a nerf.

You get the DPM of a tier X cruiser with HE ffs. Of course you're gonna use IFHE on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[POP]
Players
84 posts
3,857 battles

I tested IFHE Akizuki yesterday and it was a damage monster. Absolutely no issues finding targets that won't shatter your shells. In addition, penetrating those BB bows and similar places will generate a LOT of fires even with the -1% fire chance that comes with IFHE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
3,695 posts
10,594 battles
3 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

What, so you want to give up IFHE and the ability to penetrate 32mm ? Of course if you do that, it's a nerf.

You get the DPM of a tier X cruiser with HE ffs. Of course you're gonna use IFHE on it.

If you want to spam (IF)HE on battleships then why the hell would you take Akizuki rather than a Cleveland? Without stealth or maneuverability you're not a DD anyway, why take up the spot and put your team at DD disadvantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
7,789 posts
6,431 battles

6.1km detection wil never prevent you to catch and kill a Benson. Same for losing a bit of ruddershift. You have to be careful when entering a cap with Akizuki anyway, and you're supposed to anticipate your turn like you do with a cruiser. Current Akizuki gameplay isn't dead at all.

But now you get the added bonus to smoke and farm the living daylight of a battleship with the same DPM of a cruiser two tier higher.

And you call that a nerf ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
3,695 posts
10,594 battles
4 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

6.1km detection wil never prevent you to catch and kill a Benson. Same for losing a bit of ruddershift. You have to be careful when entering a cap with Akizuki anyway, and you're supposed to anticipate your turn like you do with a cruiser. Current Akizuki gameplay isn't dead at all.

You'd be more convincing if you could actually pull it off. I mean, seriously, most people who like Akizuki and play her a lot (to decent or better effect) seem to agree with me. The few who don't agree, seem to usually do so because they go for a different (more cruiser-like) playstyle in the first place. I would maybe understand if you were part of that group, but you're not - you seem to actually subscribe to the aggressive anti-DD playstyle... only your results are underwhelming (then again, the sample is really small). In light of that - perhaps it would be wiser to actually listen to people who actually use this playstyle (only much more and to much better effect) and acknowledge the importance of stealth stressed by them (me included)?

6.1km concealment is a huge problem. It might not be that big of a deal when facing a Benson - but when you meet, say, a Shima, it does become a much more significant issue. It gives the enemy with superior concealment more of a window for reaction. It means more sea to cover while spotted before realizing where the enemy is. I've played Akizuki enough to have a grasp of a difference between trying to engage a Kagero vs doing the same against Yugumo - and their concealment coincidentally differs by about as much as Akizuki is going to lose in the nerf. This difference is significant. And even with Yugumo it's not very comfortable - now Shima is going to have more advantage over Akizuki than Yugumo has had so far.

 

4 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

But now you get the added bonus to smoke and farm the living daylight of a battleship with the same DPM of a cruiser two tier higher.

Why are you trying to compare to higher tier heavy cruisers when comparing light cruiser gameplay? Isn't it a bit dishonest? If you want to compare HE-spamming Akizuki with cruisers, no need to look at t10. There's, say, a Cleveland. Quite a bit more HE DPM. Not to mention better turning radius :Smile_teethhappy:

 

4 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

And you call that a nerf ?

Yes. I do. She becomes worse at being a DD. If you want to play her as a cruiser, then yes, overall the change is a buff. But, as mentioned earlier - if I wanted to play a light cruiser, I'd stick with light cruisers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
7,789 posts
6,431 battles
25 minutes ago, eliastion said:

most people who like Akizuki and play her a lot (to decent or better effect) seem to agree with me.

Then I guess I should redirect you to people from RAIN who completely agree with me ?

 

I do agree that I didn't play Akizuki much, but I figured her playstyle (got some games in ranked with quite a lot of success) and I have a lot of experience in Harekaze in the first place. I'm pretty sure I can pull off a 60%WR in Akizuki quite easily.

But that's not really the issue at hand.

 

Btw I disagree totally with your Yuugumo-Kagerou experience. I've played Lo Yang, Chung-Mu and Harekaze enough to know that 5.8 vs 5.7 is a very, very marginal difference, same with 5.4 vs 5.8 actually. Unless you're absolutely ready to run away, you just can't turn in time when a DD with such a close concealment gets to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
3,695 posts
10,594 battles
1 hour ago, ShinGetsu said:

and I have a lot of experience in Harekaze

Oh, yes, that would surely tell you how little need Akizuki has for her stealth :Smile_teethhappy:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UTW]
Weekend Tester, In AlfaTesters
7,789 posts
6,431 battles
2 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Oh, yes, that would surely tell you how little need Akizuki has for her stealth :Smile_teethhappy:

At least that tell me enough about how a 400 meters difference between 2 DD is completely irrelevant unless you know he's here.

 

Well, I play YueYang lately, and those 5.9 give me absolutely no trouble to catch 5.4 Shimakaze either. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TOXIC]
[TOXIC]
Players
3,695 posts
10,594 battles
2 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

At least that tell me enough about how a 400 meters difference between 2 DD is completely irrelevant unless you know he's here.

 

Well, I play YueYang lately, and those 5.9 give me absolutely no trouble to catch 5.4 Shimakaze either. 

Well, usually people DO know you're there. Or at the very least they have good reasons to suspect your proximity. And I've played quite a lot of Shimakaze - you've faced bad Shimas.

Although perhaps we're not completely clear on one issue here. I don't claim that it's not possible to make contact with these stealthier ships in nerfed Akizuki (this happens too but is not that common unless the difference is really big - maybe Kagero will be able to do that somewhat reliably). The thing is, however, that Akizuki can't really chase enemy DDs. She's too slow for that and as for her nimbleness... well. That's why it's very important how the contact is made. If you spot the enemy that's still going towards you, you can unleash a devastatng barrage of shells. When you get spotted early enough, the enemy is well on their way to turn away and flee. And, as mentioned, you can't really give chase (not to mention that once the enemy has their butt facing you, they can use smoke if they have it).

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Community Contributor, Beta Tester
292 posts
5,128 battles

In no way did I say that I condone this nerf to her concealment and maneuverability. All I said was that the changes are not just a nerf but a trade. Whether it's a good or a bad trade is mostly subjective at this point. I like my destroyers nimble and stealthy, but you cant have everything if you want to hold on to the little balance that most tech tree ships still have. 

Will I play Aki post nerf? No. Kitakaze is much better. That doesn't mean that 6.1 or 6.0 concealment isn't workable. Rudder shift? Thorn in the eye, But it's 1 second.

I am not fond of these ultimately stepping stones of ships until you reach something actually palpabale, but it is the way it is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×