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valoaa

The match should NOT start unless all ships have loaded

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The game is very slowly but surely fixing all the glaring problems it has. But this one really grinds my steering gears and is absolutely game breaking.

 

The match should not start unless all ships have loaded into the game:

 

Lets imagine a match on "Two Brothers" (map with channel through the middle) for example. Two DD's either side one DD afk for the first minute or two gives the other team an astronomical advantage.

 

Obviously this is not just exclusive to this map or DD's but weighted heavily towards them.

 

Ways to approach this:

 

1. Matchmaking begins at loading screen.

2. 24 players have been found.

3. Everybody loads in as normal.

4. 1 ship is has not loaded after a balanced set amount of time, yet to be determined.

5. That ship is kicked from match.

5. That said ship, continues to load the map and in the meantime gets matched into another match of the same map.

6. Another ship who has already played this map since they have last logged in (map loads faster) is instantly added to the game.

 

Even if this increases wait time by 1-2 minutes I would choose this method.

 

Thoughts, improvements to what I said?

 

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I'd be very interested to know why in particular its DDs that load very late.

 

I initially noticed this myself, and then it was subsequently mentioned in topics on NA, RU and EU forums, showing that many others make the same observation.

 

After the matter was highlighted, I started to keep a tally. So far, out of 93 "late into game" ships (those not AFK for the whole game), 78 (84%) have been DDs. Not a huge sample, but appears to show a most definite trend.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, cracktrackflak said:

I'd be very interested to know why in particular its DDs that load very late.

 

I initially noticed this myself, and then it was subsequently mentioned in topics on NA, RU and EU forums, showing that many others make the same observation.

 

After the matter was highlighted, I started to keep a tally. So far, out of 93 "late into game" ships (those not AFK for the whole game), 78 (84%) have been DDs. Not a huge sample, but appears to show a most definite trend.

 

 

And when you are finally connected somebody has already reported...but some bad situation is you get reconnected when near cap...

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And all of a sudden you'd see waiting times go through the roof..

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Stupid suggestion OP......an afk ship for 5/10 minutes or even the whole game would cause players to leave the battle who were sick of waiting hence creating umpteen battles not actually starting....a sure game killer if ever there was one.

 

Apart from frustration now and again, It works out even for both teams in the end so not something that bothers me too much.  

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1 hour ago, cracktrackflak said:

I'd be very interested to know why in particular its DDs that load very late.

 

I initially noticed this myself, and then it was subsequently mentioned in topics on NA, RU and EU forums, showing that many others make the same observation.

 

After the matter was highlighted, I started to keep a tally. So far, out of 93 "late into game" ships (those not AFK for the whole game), 78 (84%) have been DDs. Not a huge sample, but appears to show a most definite trend.

 

 

Very interesting, I was going to say probably because you immediately notice when a destroyer is AFK as they are crucial to the beginning of a most matches.

 

would be interesting to see actual

stats on this.

 

 

21 minutes ago, bushwacker001 said:

Stupid suggestion OP......an afk ship for 5/10 minutes or even the whole game would cause players to leave the battle who were sick of waiting hence creating umpteen battles not actually starting....a sure game killer if ever there was one.

 

Apart from frustration now and again, It works out even for both teams in the end so not something that bothers me too much.  

 

I would happily wait 5 minutes for a game if it meant I didn’t have to play with 1 our of 2 AFK destroyers on my side.

 

Regardless I’m sure there are other solutions or amendments to mine to fix this.

 

 

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4 hours ago, cracktrackflak said:

I'd be very interested to know why in particular its DDs that load very late.

 

I initially noticed this myself, and then it was subsequently mentioned in topics on NA, RU and EU forums, showing that many others make the same observation.

 

After the matter was highlighted, I started to keep a tally. So far, out of 93 "late into game" ships (those not AFK for the whole game), 78 (84%) have been DDs. Not a huge sample, but appears to show a most definite trend.

 

 

I see no rational reason for DD being particularly late. This must be a selection bias. We all mostly look at DD at the start of the game, and DD are most easily spotted moving/not moving. 

BB also are moving/accelerating much slower and they don't have much reason to hurry so they often wait and watch what ... DD will do. Nobody examines BB turrets carefully in the first minute... but everybody checks WHY TF MY DD IS STILL NOT MOVING!!!111 :cap_viking:

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AFK players should be punished regardless of the reason. It's a great liason to the entire team and honestly I care a [edited]about why they went afk. Also if said player takes several minutes to load the game.

 

In my computer I load the game in 20 seconds. And as you can check in my signature, it's a computer from 2011. Yeah, overclocked, but it´s from 7 years ago and loads just fine (with max settings, up until last year I had a radeon HD 6790 and played the game in medium settings). And it's a cheap computer btw (it costed me 550€) I upgraded it with some stuff over the years (more ram, ssd, and just a new video card). So it's logical to assume that any newer computer should load the game much, much faster than that.

 

I load the game from a SSD. But even when I had to run the game from a mechanical hdd (a Western digital green 1 tb btw) the game loads in 30 - 40 seconds (leaving me 15 - 5 seconds before the game starts).

 

Yeah. I had my share of problems too, for instance a crash right when I was loading the map. It's not my fault but I still deserve the afk punishment (altought I never get one because I was able to load the game and jump into the same battle, but I reckon that hurted my team. Specially if I was playing a CV).

Btw, there is a "trick" to know if a player loaded the game or not; if the main guns are aiming all at a same point (like when you move the cursor around) the game it's loaded but the player isn't playing the game. If the guns are aiming at straight port and bow at the same time then the game isn't (a crash, or didn't loaded yet).

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4 hours ago, valoaa said:

Very interesting, I was going to say probably because you immediately notice when a destroyer is AFK as they are crucial to the beginning of a most matches.

Actually, these days DDs aren't that crucial at the start of battles since unless they're a fair bit above average skill they'll either do nothing important for a while or die to the first radar that gets them.

 

4 hours ago, valoaa said:

I would happily wait 5 minutes for a game if it meant I didn’t have to play with 1 our of 2 AFK destroyers on my side.

While I don't think you're alone in that I most certainly think you're in a very small minority.

 

 

1 hour ago, Sargento_YO said:

AFK players should be punished regardless of the reason. It's a great liason to the entire team and honestly I care a [edited]about why they went afk. Also if said player takes several minutes to load the game.

I disagree. Intentional afk should be punished more harshly and there should be a little bit of leniency if unintentional afk doesn't happen too often.

 

Oh, and I assume you meant "liability" instead of "liaison". Autocorrect/autocomplete?

 

1 hour ago, Sargento_YO said:

Btw, there is a "trick" to know if a player loaded the game or not; if the main guns are aiming all at a same point (like when you move the cursor around) the game it's loaded but the player isn't playing the game. If the guns are aiming at straight port and bow at the same time then the game isn't (a crash, or didn't loaded yet).

I tend to look at that sort of thing, and announce it in chat if the player is loaded. Another thing I sometimes do is give the ship a little nudge. A lot of the time the ship magically starts to move. It's almost as if players don't want to do anything until everyone else get into enemy range first. :Smile_sceptic:

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I have notice and expericanced this but same on both sides.  Kinda balances

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Very often the afk ships at start are DD.

But then, wonder over wonder, when i ram them a bit they wake up immediately and move.

So most of this "afk" DD are just sitting there and simply wait what happens or even plan to stay afk for the entire game!

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23 hours ago, valoaa said:

The match should not start unless all ships have loaded into the game

Not viable in Randoms, too many people involved in every match.

 

23 hours ago, valoaa said:

4. 1 ship is has not loaded after a balanced set amount of time, yet to be determined.

5. That ship is kicked from match.

5. That said ship, continues to load the map and in the meantime gets matched into another match of the same map.

Oh, great, of course nobody will find ways to mess with their loading to simulate bad loading to avoid a bad lineup, niiiice.

 

23 hours ago, valoaa said:

6. Another ship who has already played this map since they have last logged in (map loads faster) is instantly added to the game.

 

Oh, great, now I need to shut down the client after a match on a map I don't like, niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.

 

 

 

I'm all for "no AFKers" rule but a much different one:

1. Only applies to Ranked.

2. The match starts normally even if not everyone has loaded in. If within, say, 30 seconds (to be considered - the important thing is for it to be short enough so that the sides normally don't get to engage before it kicks in) somebody is still missing, everyone is dropped back to queue with offender receiving an AFK penalty increment (normal->pink pink->orange) along with 10 minutes Ranked cooldown.

3. Some additional counter (besides the normal AFK-prevention system) bans a player from the ongoing Ranked season until its end if the thing happens often enough.

 

This can work because it's only a 7v7 AND people are much more competitively-oriented, so the subjective importance of not having AFKers rises - thanks to this people would be more willing to endure more hardships (being dropped to queue from time to time) to avoid such a situation. What's more, even people suffering from this (getting penalized) would often be happy - 30 seconds usually means that it's not bad loading but some problem that's going to not allow them to load at all (or for half a battle) meaning a defeat (almost certain) and loss of a hard-earned star.

 

15 hours ago, Arakus said:

Very often the afk ships at start are DD.

But then, wonder over wonder, when i ram them a bit they wake up immediately and move.

So most of this "afk" DD are just sitting there and simply wait what happens or even plan to stay afk for the entire game!

Actually, I have a theory about this. Besides it not necessarily being DDs (it's just more noticeable when a DD is afk), I have a feeling that receiving damage sends some extra feedback. If someone Alt-Tabs out of the loading for whatever reason and the game on the start bar doesn't start flashing when the match starts (it normally should), taking damage might trigger the flashing. Basically, your nudge almost literally wakes them up.

For obvious reasons, it's not something I have really tested, but over my thousands of battles I've had my times when I alt-tabbed, among these: times when I alt-tabbed and was late and - among THESE - times where I alt-tabbed, got alerted by the flashing, got in and saw myself "nudged". Or hit by something. Or at least that was how it seemed. Again, as mentioned, I never actually tried testing that, although it might be an interesting thing to test in Training Room or something. If someone has too much time :Smile_honoring: Or rather: if a bunch of someones has enough time since it obviously can't be tested solo.

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This sounds like queue & loading in League

 

Sit there in queue for 13min, finally a match pops up, 9 accept it... 10th's not there. Haha, go back to queue

 

Finally got to Champ select? Well guess what, someone didn't pick / forgot to lock in / didn't like someone on enemy / his own team and quit. Back to queue!

 

Finally got to the loading part? Don't worry, xXx_FioraMaster18_xXx is playing the game on a coal powered toaster. Thank god you don't have to actually wait for everyone anymore, now you just sit there for like 5 min and then get it the match. Sounds good this far? 3 min later - he still hasn't connected, his team go for /remake and the game disappears from existence.

 

Those 20...30 min you just spent to get into a single match - go and f yourself with them, bcuz your back to 0

 

 

In other words - no thank you.

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Way too complicated. Just lock out AFK'ers from control over their ship and let a bot take over one minute into the match. No XP rewards, but full costs (and reports, of course).

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2 hours ago, tenacious_torps said:

Way too complicated. Just lock out AFK'ers from control over their ship and let a bot take over one minute into the match. No XP rewards, but full costs (and reports, of course).

This is really stupid. I've seen late loaders carry the game (or at least being useful). I've BEEN (for various reasons) a late (re)loader that carried the game (or at least was useful). Locking the payer out after a minute is just a way to further punish his team by making it impossible for the player to finally (re)connect and possibly make up for being late if he's any good.

 

If anything, I'd add a special "AFK bot" that starts performing some actions when a ship of absent player gets spotted (otherwise these are simultaneously an XP piniata to just aim long-range torps at and wait for the free kill) AND an obviously low-priority target that won't draw fire (from somewhat competent players, at least) away from teammates.

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5 hours ago, Arakus said:

Very often the afk ships at start are DD.

But then, wonder over wonder, when i ram them a bit they wake up immediately and move.

So most of this "afk" DD are just sitting there and simply wait what happens or even plan to stay afk for the entire game!

Yes, "surprisingly".

 

But, you can tell if a player is truly afk or not yet connected ; If her (rear) turrets are turned, she is afk, if not, she is not yet connected. (So very hard to tell if the ship is Rich or Dunq or such)

 

I tend to do that too to ships that have turrets turned and magically most of them will start to move...

 

Oh and to the OP, I think that this could work in some form. All the negative comments in here are not based in any stats, just their opinions and experiences in other games and not one of them sounds like it is working exactly like this. I understand and have seen many times that if a DD is afk / non-responsive at the start, it may not be the end of the world, but, if the team could / would benefit from a DD that actually starts to move right from the beginning, I find it very, very frustrating and something to be punished for.

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No.

Why should we wait x amount of minutes cause players can't fire up their hamsters.

It's not just the DDs, I see alot of player log in late. 

And as someone pointed out, if u have to wait 1-2-3 min cause someone has a crappy computer or internett, well, they'll leave the game.

U have 30 sec to log into a game, if that isn't enough....well....Upgrade Your rig. I shouldn't be penalised cause someone runs a potatoe.

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I agree with others that it would ruin the game... You cannot hold up 23 players because one is having connection issues..

I have seen more than just DD's loading in late, in one game recently we had a Cleveland absent for the whole 20 minutes. We still won the game...

I have experienced late log ins myself where you can see the game is moving but the game just does not let you get in yourself, the loading icon just spins around whilst you wait. 

As a DD player I like the enemy players who have not logged in because I can sometimes get to kill them... Had a Bismarck the other day whilst playing my Benson who was not loaded so 1 salvo of torpedoes got me a Liquidator badge.

Came in late in my Shimakaze once after several minutes, the game would just not load, made a post about it on here because it was an amazing game for me, everyone was out to report me for being late and kept spouting crap at me until I had sunk my 4th ship, got 6 in total...

 

Finally, why punish those who have log in issues? The internet is not 100% reliable and there are many factors as to why someone cannot get in... Imagine in the UK the ISP is doing maintenance on your service and it goes down at load in..is that the players fault?

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5 hours ago, Arakus said:

Very often the afk ships at start are DD.

But then, wonder over wonder, when i ram them a bit they wake up immediately and move.

So most of this "afk" DD are just sitting there and simply wait what happens or even plan to stay afk for the entire game!

 

It probably seems like this because half of the BB players play like they're afk

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8 hours ago, Sargento_YO said:

AFK players should be punished regardless of the reason ... Also if said player takes several minutes to load the game.

......

In my computer I load the game in 20 seconds.

Figures.

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At what point does the AFK (Coop only battles) punishment kick in? Is it only if you're AFK for the entire battle or for a certain amount of time? For me it should be set to 1 min, if you continually can't get into battle within 60secs due to a poor PC you have no right to be playing random battles.

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14 hours ago, cracktrackflak said:

I'd be very interested to know why in particular its DDs that load very late.

 

I initially noticed this myself, and then it was subsequently mentioned in topics on NA, RU and EU forums, showing that many others make the same observation.

 

After the matter was highlighted, I started to keep a tally. So far, out of 93 "late into game" ships (those not AFK for the whole game), 78 (84%) have been DDs. Not a huge sample, but appears to show a most definite trend.

 

 

I think part of the reason why it is easier to notice AFK DDs is because at the start of the match people tend to focus them (and not just in the red team).

On top of that, an AFK BB player is much less obvious due to BBs being much more sluggish and slower to start moving/turretturning.

9 hours ago, Sargento_YO said:

AFK players should be punished regardless of the reason. It's a great liason to the entire team and honestly I care a [edited]about why they went afk. Also if said player takes several minutes to load the game.

 

In my computer I load the game in 20 seconds. And as you can check in my signature, it's a computer from 2011. Yeah, overclocked, but it´s from 7 years ago and loads just fine (with max settings, up until last year I had a radeon HD 6790 and played the game in medium settings). And it's a cheap computer btw (it costed me 550€) I upgraded it with some stuff over the years (more ram, ssd, and just a new video card). So it's logical to assume that any newer computer should load the game much, much faster than that.

 

I load the game from a SSD. But even when I had to run the game from a mechanical hdd (a Western digital green 1 tb btw) the game loads in 30 - 40 seconds (leaving me 15 - 5 seconds before the game starts).

Usually loadtimes are dependent on the storage media. Saying your PC is 7 years old matters relatively little regarding loading times, at the most it may matter somewhat due to unpacking of files. But like you mentioned yourself, adding an SSD is BY FAR the best way to aleviate loading times :Smile_great:

I should get one myself lol :Smile_hiding:

5 hours ago, eliastion said:

Actually, I have a theory about this. Besides it not necessarily being DDs (it's just more noticeable when a DD is afk), I have a feeling that receiving damage sends some extra feedback. If someone Alt-Tabs out of the loading for whatever reason and the game on the start bar doesn't start flashing when the match starts (it normally should), taking damage might trigger the flashing. Basically, your nudge almost literally wakes them up.

For obvious reasons, it's not something I have really tested, but over my thousands of battles I've had my times when I alt-tabbed, among these: times when I alt-tabbed and was late and - among THESE - times where I alt-tabbed, got alerted by the flashing, got in and saw myself "nudged". Or hit by something. Or at least that was how it seemed. Again, as mentioned, I never actually tried testing that, although it might be an interesting thing to test in Training Room or something. If someone has too much time :Smile_honoring: Or rather: if a bunch of someones has enough time since it obviously can't be tested solo.

Whenever I ALT+TAB out, it starts flashing once the countdown reached zero and the battle starts (good feature btw!).

10 hours ago, EdiJo said:

I see no rational reason for DD being particularly late. This must be a selection bias. We all mostly look at DD at the start of the game, and DD are most easily spotted moving/not moving. 

BB also are moving/accelerating much slower and they don't have much reason to hurry so they often wait and watch what ... DD will do. Nobody examines BB turrets carefully in the first minute... but everybody checks WHY TF MY DD IS STILL NOT MOVING!!!111 :cap_viking:

Though I actually do check BB turrets, actually quite regularly. It tells me if a BB is waiting and watching the start of the game develop before they make up their minds (I suspect this is a bit more often (but not always!) a less experienced player who is insecure about what part of the map to go towards).

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7 hours ago, Arakus said:

Very often the afk ships at start are DD.

But then, wonder over wonder, when i ram them a bit they wake up immediately and move.

So most of this "afk" DD are just sitting there and simply wait what happens or even plan to stay afk for the entire game!

Are they AFK or still loading in though, or are they just waiting to see which way the team goes?

 

The only times I see delays in loading into a battle myself, are first battle of the day or when i change ship, I get a slightly longer loading in time,

 

In terms of one class being more AFK than others, I don't see that, it's an equal distribution across the classes. BUT as others have mentioned it's much more noticeable with DD's as you expect them to run ahead and start spotting.

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To clarify my unscientific and not-intended-for-use data gathering mentioned in my post:

 

My methodology was to wait until all other ships in the team had shown signs of activity, including the BBs and CAs that for some reason like to sit there and watch everyone else shape the battle.

 

I mostly only counted those DDs and other ships that were still lifeless at the point at which they were being passed by BBs leaving the spawn. To my mind, at that point the team has already suffered a serious disadvantage due to the loss of spotting and positioning.

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