Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Oderisson

Yamato/musashi AA buff

45 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[HEROZ]
Players
596 posts
5,864 battles

I have a suggestion. Yamato was introduced into the game 3 years ago, there have been some new interesting and unique ships introduced into the game in the meantime and maybe we could spice up this ship a little with unusuall buff to AA.

 

As some people may, or may not, know real-life Yamatos 460mm guns were actually dual-purpose.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Shiki_(anti-aircraft_shell)

 

While making the guns dual-purpose would be simplest way this wouldn't actually spice things up. Also I have a feeling CV players would be grumpy. I am thinking more in the way of Defensive AA. The like that Hood has (but not as obviously broken). For balance purposes lets say it has only one charge (Yeah, I know, that means 3 charges with superintendant and premium). Maybe it could even replace spotter/scout plane.

 

What are Your opinions? I think this idea is interesting way to differentiate Yamato from other X BBs.

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 2
  • Bad 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[POI--]
Players
3,185 posts
4,331 battles
4 minutes ago, Oderisson said:

While making the guns dual-purpose would be simplest way this wouldn't actually spice things up. Also I have a feeling CV players would be grumpy. I am thinking more in the way of Defensive AA. The like that Hood has (but not as obviously broken).

Unless the base AA and modifier on the guns are utterly crap, it sure as hell would be broken, given that unlike the Hood's rocket AA, the 46 cm guns wouldn't have the limitations of incredibly short range and terrible survival rate (they are likely the most well armoured main turrets in the game). Suddenly, Yamato would eat up planes from 10+ km away and no HE spam will ever degrade that ability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HAERT]
Players
2,024 posts

So you would like one of the most damage resistant ships in the game (assuming not driven by a twit that shows broadside) to be more resistant to one of its few weaknesses?

It already has massive torpedo damage mitigation so air dropped torps don't do much to it anyway.

 

Sorry, no. BB's don't need any more buffs they're ludicrously strong as it is.

  • Cool 5
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,806 posts
5,762 battles

I thought about those shells a few times, but well... I'd like the idea of some way to represent those shells to be honest. No idea about how to make it a balanced one or one that won't make players go like "last thing the game needs is more BB buffs" even if we're talking about the worthless AA of Yamato/Musashi though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[W_I_G]
Players
3,168 posts
9,352 battles

i could use AA buff on my musashi :Smile_trollface: those pesky CV always seem to focus on me.. :Smile_child:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HEROZ]
Players
596 posts
5,864 battles
5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Unless the base AA and modifier on the guns are utterly crap, it sure as hell would be broken, given that unlike the Hood's rocket AA, the 46 cm guns wouldn't have the limitations of incredibly short range and terrible survival rate (they are likely the most well armoured main turrets in the game). Suddenly, Yamato would eat up planes from 10+ km away and no HE spam will ever degrade that ability.

There is many ways to balance this ability without damaging meta. Since guns ane not fast firing we could make this a high damage-short time abilty to eliminate distruption. Lets say 1 second action time without distruption but for example 3000 dmg. Or other way around "no damage increase but only distruption" because pilots "are afraid". I am not aiming here for drastic change but a optional consumable. yamato seems boring at the moment compared to other battleships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TTT]
Players
3,573 posts
7,449 battles

these shells would, at best, probably give a 1dps AA aura with a minimum range of 5km or something (just due to gun elevation problems if nothing else)... iirc US pilots described them as "pretty fireworks, can they do more of that?" or some such...

so yeah, nope. Zero need for it gameplay wise, makes no sense from a historical perspective (because these things simply did not work worth a damn, even worse than RN UP Launchers)

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[POI--]
Players
3,185 posts
4,331 battles
Just now, Tyrendian89 said:

these shells would, at best, probably give a 1dps AA aura with a minimum range of 5km or something (just due to gun elevation problems if nothing else)... iirc US pilots described them as "pretty fireworks, can they do more of that?" or some such...

so yeah, nope. Zero need for it gameplay wise, makes no sense from a historical perspective (because these things simply did not work worth a damn, even worse than RN UP Launchers)

Basically, get a Yamamoto Kraken and you can get the Type 3 experience...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[YARRR]
Beta Tester
6,690 posts
13,130 battles

How about this to reflect the actual use of these shells:

- Whenever Yamato/Musashi presses DFAA to activate her Type 3 shells she gets spotted from the entire map for full duration due to firing fireworks into the air from her main battery.

- All AA mounts her main guns pointed over get destroyed.

- Main battery gets knocked out and their HP will decrease (if HP is already low main gun gets destroyed).

- Planes get an accuracy debuff for 5 seconds due to how hard the pilots are laughing at the harmless fireworks display.

 

Type 3 shells were incredibly worthless. Yamato AA in general was worthless. She probably shot down more planes by exploding than with her AA guns.

Also LOL buffing Yamato or, even better, Musashi. As if they need it.

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
527 posts
3,366 battles
44 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

So you would like one of the most damage resistant ships in the game (assuming not driven by a twit that shows broadside) to be more resistant to one of its few weaknesses?

It already has massive torpedo damage mitigation so air dropped torps don't do much to it anyway.

 

Sorry, no. BB's don't need any more buffs they're ludicrously strong as it is.

Yeah yeah, since everyone knows yamato only has 50mm deck armor. Said no-one ever.

 

The yamatos only redeeming feature is the guns, and everything stops after that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[YARRR]
Beta Tester
6,690 posts
13,130 battles
16 minutes ago, Sturmtiger_304 said:

Yeah yeah, since everyone knows yamato only has 50mm deck armor. Said no-one ever.

 

How exactly is this relevant to your point? Yamato is immune to USN AP bomb citadels while HE bombs always penetrate regardless of deck armor thickness. 50mm deck armor is also immune to all AP and cruiser/DD HE shells. I fail to see how the second best armor protection scheme when angled (after the Germans) can be considered bad.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[EST]
[EST]
Players
690 posts
17,408 battles
1 hour ago, Oderisson said:

There is many ways to balance this ability without damaging meta. Since guns ane not fast firing we could make this a high damage-short time abilty to eliminate distruption. Lets say 1 second action time without distruption but for example 3000 dmg. Or other way around "no damage increase but only distruption" because pilots "are afraid". I am not aiming here for drastic change but a optional consumable. yamato seems boring at the moment compared to other battleships.

Make full AA build Yammy, enjoy fighting HE fires. Won't be as boring and your AA wish comes true. If u still get bored with Yammy, change ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[FABER]
[FABER]
Players
121 posts
3,010 battles

AA buff? Well, maybe WG can add a couple of triple 25mm guns on B and X turrets (like Nagato and Amagi ones) this will increase the AA dps by  ~24...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
877 posts
11,126 battles

I have to agree with most of the opinions above.

Historically speaking, Type 3 shells were actually rather decent ...as long as you shot those at ground targets without any significant cover á la Henderson Field and not something in the skies. I'd wager even with VT fuses and decent, God forbid radar-guided fire control they would be next to useless, considering RoF and turret traverse / elevation. Type 3 was a question "Can we utilize weapons for AA purposes originally not designed for it simply by a new shell type?", and the answer was, unsurprisingly "nu-uh, gov'nor".

It's not that I can dish them for trying, though.

 

In a scenario / operation, sure, go for it! But the max. the Yam's should get are, as Bics93 said, the 25's on the turrets. I'd also mention the AA powercreep-issue, if it weren't a moot point due to The CV Rework: Rework Harder arriving to your nearest movie theater somewhere in the very near future - stay tuned! PEGI 13.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,806 posts
5,762 battles

Funny how even if it's true that those shells acomplished basically nothing everyone pulls that card right away... As if WG would care if for some reason they'd go like "lol, ok, let's do it". Look at how Hood's rockets were royal crap against planes too and in game are like the ultra doom weapon of mega death for planes... :cap_old:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
312 posts
11,748 battles

 A ton of bad ideas. Yamato, even with the ever present power creep, has a very firm stand in the top tier meta. She is already distinguished by her accurate artillery, which also happens to be the largest in the game and can over-match other battleships armor. She is also incredibly resistant to damage, and has probably the best torpedo reduction of them all, so air-dropped torpedoes are not even a threat (I take 4k per torp on average). I do not understand what is not unique about her already.

 She does not deserve an AA buff either, nor does she deserve Defensive Fire. A single separated battleship looking for his own adventures should always be punished by the air buggery for not playing with his team pushing caps and what not. Her base AA is already very strong if specc'ed for it should the air buggery interfere in Yamato's scrub border adventures.

 Changing her AA at this stage would also be a very bad idea because there is an upcoming complete rework to CV's and AA. Should any changes be implemented, it should be done after it. 

 

 Back to getting sunk by air buggery, scrub. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
877 posts
11,126 battles
17 minutes ago, SHDRKN4792 said:

Funny how even if it's true that those shells acomplished basically nothing everyone pulls that card right away... As if WG would care if for some reason they'd go like "lol, ok, let's do it". Look at how Hood's rockets were royal crap against planes too and in game are like the ultra doom weapon of mega death for planes... :cap_old:

That is correct, but one does not have to go full yolo just because Pandora's box have already been opened. I mean, people still seemingly and continuously are against gimmick-based gameplay even though that train is also gone since long ago.

 

While we are at it, almost my biggest issue with Hood's AA is that... it's just a single AA value. No itty-bitty mines on parachutes or at least something visually interesting. Same thing would be with Yamato, press button, DPM jumps to "lol, over nine thousand", entire squadron pops like bubble foil and that's the end of it.

 

I'd actually be in for the show as long as it would be show. :Smile_trollface:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HMSR]
Players
1,629 posts
5,846 battles

Dont ask for a gimmick on Yammy, you all well know what happens to a ship when a gimmick comes into the mix :Smile_smile:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[RAIN]
Players
90 posts
8,920 battles

Yeah because there is not enough AA in the game already... We clearly need more WG! :cap_rambo:

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BONUS]
[BONUS]
Beta Tester
2,587 posts
6,660 battles

Just got Musashi.  Earned the hard way this time, with no free XP conversion.  When I bought her I iknew there was poor AA.  So what can I do?  I sail with a friendly cruiser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,820 posts
2,546 battles
24 minutes ago, Hedgehog1963 said:

Just got Musashi.  Earned the hard way this time, with no free XP conversion.  When I bought her I iknew there was poor AA.  So what can I do?  I sail with a friendly cruiser.

Make it two, when possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
560 posts
4,694 battles

A Yammi has so good torp protection that not even a theoretical perfect TB run can alpha strike it.

12 Torps - 8 on the Belt, 4 on Bow/Stern

 

8*9*0,45+4*9 =~ 65-70k is the absolut maximum you can do on a yami that manages to turn off its aa and turns out to do its best to catch all fish....

Its not even getting dev striked for being an total idiot :(

 

Add midway DB with a lucky drop (APs dont hurt it, IGN HE doesnt do much damage) for 20-30k and you maybe get an lethal alpha strike once in a year ... to a player who deeply deservs it....

 

The target list for a high tier CV is mainly "DDs" for a reason - the game gets more and more AA on hightier every patch.

Wonder why you see a lot of CVs on t6/7 and barley any on t8 and up? Because its [edited]boring to fly around AA blobbs .... even if you can manage to make it work (what most players cant .... ).

Ill take my Kaga over my Midway anytime ....

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HEROZ]
Players
596 posts
5,864 battles

Most people here are concentrating here on balance problems and if the ship really needs it, when main point of me starting thread was knowing what people think about it as a way to make ship more interesting.

 

Balancing is WGs job and trust me when and if it comes to that no developer will start a thread on forum to know what players think. They will just test it on closed server as it should be.

 

If people could concentrate on idea and leave balancing alone it would be lovely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
560 posts
4,694 battles

Whats interesting about AA?

Its the most boring thing in the entire game 

 

 

You dont have to do anything for AA to work...

Even a bot has "perfect AA" if you make it klick on planes once

 

Ship having 5000 AA DPS or 5 AA DPS doesnt make it any more interseting because you dont get anything new to do....

 

And dont tell me that "pressing the plane immun button" aka def fire is anything interseting for a player. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[DIKI]
Players
802 posts
295 battles
10 hours ago, Oderisson said:

I have a suggestion. Yamato was introduced into the game 3 years ago, there have been some new interesting and unique ships introduced into the game in the meantime and maybe we could spice up this ship a little with unusuall buff to AA.

 

As some people may, or may not, know real-life Yamatos 460mm guns were actually dual-purpose.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Shiki_(anti-aircraft_shell)

 

While making the guns dual-purpose would be simplest way this wouldn't actually spice things up. Also I have a feeling CV players would be grumpy. I am thinking more in the way of Defensive AA. The like that Hood has (but not as obviously broken). For balance purposes lets say it has only one charge (Yeah, I know, that means 3 charges with superintendant and premium). Maybe it could even replace spotter/scout plane.

 

What are Your opinions? I think this idea is interesting way to differentiate Yamato from other X BBs.

so you want "i win" button against CV on him....totaly blanced

 

p.s.

460 guns that can pen anything are not enough differentiation from other BBs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×