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SvR1983

Kagero any good?

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Hello,

 

just "upgraded from the Akatsuki to the Kagero.

It seems like you can't hit anything with the torps and the guns do less damage and don't trigger fire. So even in a 1:1 against another destroyer, you stand no chance.

 

Is this a "non fighting" ship, just for spotting and capturing? But it's also a lot slower than the Akatsuki.

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It has the same guns.

Torpedos should be the same or better. Yes, she is a torpedoboat, NOT a gunboat.

She has the best stealth in her MM range. That is a big advantage.

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For some reason I could never make Akatsuki work (unlike Shira), and she was a tough grind. I'm however enjoying Kagero. 

Great concealment. I use TRB and don't bother with smoke given the number of radar ships around. 

Torps work well, but BBs you're facing may well be quicker if higher tier than you, so you have to adjust for it.

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Unfortunately for you the Kagero hasn't changed much from the era where Japanese Destroyers were masters of the sea.  Meanwhile the game is always changing to make life harder for the DD player because the BB lobby are pretty much the only players to whom WG listen.  Now the seas are continuously swept by radar, you can be detected in smoke from further away than the auto detect range, the enemy sees your torpedoes sooner than they would originally.  And of course there are other nations DD lines that will rip you to pieces if they see you, equipped with speed boosts and speed boost extenders that can do 50kts and they know where you are because of the Radio Direction Finding skill.  German BB secondaries can nail you from 11.3km and BBs have sonar now.  There was a time when you had to spend a commander skill point to get the detection warning.  Not any longer.

 

So yes it can be hard.  I suppose the other thing is that BB players don't sail in straight lines as much any more.  Bit of a bummer.

 

Good luck.  This will be a test of your character.

 

 

 

 

 

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You'll never face a ship with better stealth than you, so that's a great advantage. Use it, and use it well.

 

With that in mind, using TRB instead of smoke is a good idea. The caveat is that you have to be comfortable with playing a stealth torpedo boat without relying on smoke. If you're not comfortable with that, you're better off with smoke, but then you won't be able to use the ship to her greatest strengths. Personally I've been using it on her since it was introduced back when she was T9 and the TRB gave a 30 second reload time. It's even better now.

 

The guns are kind of meh, but they work just as well at max range, so if you're facing a DD with floaty arcs, you can actually gun them down. If you don't have many other ships shooting at you, that is.

 

The torpedoes are fine. Lousy detection, decent speed, and great damage and almost guaranteed flood chance.

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Yes, you are a spotting boat in the first place.

 

So important: learn the detection ranges of the DDs you can meet, so you know how agressive you can scout.

 

Always have an escape plan. Reverse into caps and keep reversing to spot red dds. Don't go off alone unless decent reasons. Torp reload booster is a valid alternative to smoke, maybe even more so in these radarmaggedon times.

 

RPF more than recommended.

 

 

It is a very good boat, so is the akatsuki. Imho after the kagero that ends.

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9 minutes ago, cmdr__nik said:

For some reason I could never make Akatsuki work (unlike Shira), and she was a tough grind. I'm however enjoying Kagero. 

Great concealment. I use TRB and don't bother with smoke given the number of radar ships around. 

Torps work well, but BBs you're facing may well be quicker if higher tier than you, so you have to adjust for it.

Akatsuki is a MM-dependant almost hybrid that had to look at the matchup and then decide whether it could count on concealment advantage or not. If you go up against DDs that outspot you by a mile (like T8), play more defensive and maybe even supportive of other DDs, because chances are, you run into a T8 gunboat DD and die if you go solo. against same or lower tier, you can be a bit more bold. The guns are long reload, good ballistics, for their tier okish, given you can 1v1 other DDs, when kiting. The speed gets you around. The main job will be spamming torps around.

36 minutes ago, SvR1983 said:

Hello,

 

just "upgraded from the Akatsuki to the Kagero.

It seems like you can't hit anything with the torps and the guns do less damage and don't trigger fire. So even in a 1:1 against another destroyer, you stand no chance.

 

Is this a "non fighting" ship, just for spotting and capturing? But it's also a lot slower than the Akatsuki.

Kagero's guns are better (7 second reload instead of 7.5), just most opponents are much stronger now too. The ship is slower, but akatsuki was just an exception. Fubuki, Kagero, Yuugumo (and premiums Asashio and Harekaze) all have this speed. Hatsuharu and Shiratsuyu are not fast either and the Akizuki is on cruiser levels. IJN DDs are not fast usually. What you do regain in the Kagero though, is the concealment advantage. Where the Akatsuki relied on speed to run off when it got outspotted, Kagero can see its opponents usually first.

 

As to hitting things with torps, stock you get same torps as before, upgraded you get better torps. With 2x4. you really need to go away from Akatsuki's mentality of just spamming torps anywhere and think about how you set up a torp run. If you do it well, it's a lot of damage, if not a devastating strike. Also, one single Kagero torp can end most DDs. But yeah, Kagero returns to a more passive playstyle, not unlike Fubuki.

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It's workable. Great concealment. Torp spammer, but you have to choose the gun-engagements carefully.

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3 hours ago, Saiyko said:

Yes, you are a spotting boat in the first place.

 

So important: learn the detection ranges of the DDs you can meet, so you know how agressive you can scout.

 

Always have an escape plan. Reverse into caps and keep reversing to spot red dds. Don't go off alone unless decent reasons. Torp reload booster is a valid alternative to smoke, maybe even more so in these radarmaggedon times.

 

RPF more than recommended.

 

 

It is a very good boat, so is the akatsuki. Imho after the kagero that ends.

 

All very true although I really enjoyed the Yugumo at T9, maybe I'm just weird which is very likely.

 

@SvR1983 I suspect part of the problem you have is the T8 matchmaking, T8 is bottom tier a lot:-

1. T8 and above there are more players who actually know how use to WASD hax and their ships are generally more nimble or at least faster in a straight line, landing torpedoes can be a challenge

2. There are more radars and hydro's about so it can make stalking your prey a little bit trickier

3. Enemy DD's at 9/10 tend to have much better guns and if they spot you they will actively try to kill you as Kagero is very stealthy at 5.4Km. Kagero's guns are nothing special, they work, but are relatively weak compared to other nations

4. Lots of the T8 and above ships will have high point Captains and will not be stock configs, I use free XP on relevant modules whenever I get a T8 ship, my North Carolina which I got a few days back set to sail on her maiden trip with B hull, engine upgrade and a 17 point Captain (retrained with eliteXP), I'm sure I'm far from the only one that does this

5. Gun accuracy, especially BB's jumps considerably and DD's are prime targets if spotted, the 20s gun bloom can easily get you killed so using guns takes some care, Kagero is very fragile, but reasonably nimble so can dodge quite well

 

There's actually a bit of a gameplay shift at T8 compared to T7, it can take some getting used to.

 

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I'd go without RPF, but that might be just me... and I'd keep firing range down as much as possible, meaning Gun fire control system 1 is kept.

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11 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

I'd go without RPF, but that might be just me... and I'd keep firing range down as much as possible, meaning Gun fire control system 1 is kept.

I am also not quite sure on RPF for torpedo boats. For sure it is mega helpful for avoiding enemy DDs, however it also telegraphs your presence to the capital ships you actually want to torp like no other. I therefore mostly take RPF for aggressive DD action (German Z-series or PA destroyers), not for torp bots, however this choice is more of a preferential playstyle thingy. It still is a fantastic skill, so taking RPF should not make your Kagero experience worse.

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2 hours ago, Ubertron_X said:

however it also telegraphs your presence to the capital ships you actually want to torp like no other

Yea, I know, right.

 

It's the reason that with the last free respec after the last clanbattles, I've respecced some boats to go without rpf (z52, fletcher) - I thought I would have some better results in torping capital ships.

 

And while that is true, I am still unsure if it is truly the best way to go, since you often need to know where red dd is, e.g. to finish him off.

I've not been playing a lot of DDs lately, exacerbated by the radar influx, except for PA dds, to definitely make up my opinion.

 

On Kagero though, which sees t10 so often, I would still recommend it, because the DDs it wants to avoid, are so bloody dangerous to her. But as you say, or at least imply, in the end it's up to personal preference.

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RPF is a tricky one, on a torp boat like Kagero it can help with a torp blind fire which can really make a difference, however as mentioned it has the drawback that the nearest ship knows he's on someone's RPF, just not a direction or range. I agree with that drawback existing it would be excessively strong without it.

I actively liked Kagero and I play my Harekaze quite often which is basically the same boat, it's quite effective if a bit squishy, but it needs some careful play. Radar is a problem for all DD's, but it can be mitigated by positioning and careful play, it helps if the friendly BB's blap the radar cruisers you spot :Smile_ohmy:

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4 hours ago, Saiyko said:

Imho after the kagero that ends.

I'd argue against that. Yuugumo has only 100 m worse stealth, but is better all around. The guns are surprisingly potent (although it's still not a gunboat). Shimakaze is also very powerful if handled properly. Another 100 m worse stealth, but in return you get great speed and more health. The torpedoes are different (3x5 instead of 2x4 + TRB), but without sacrificing smoke for it, and while I forgot the exact numbers, the potential damage is still higher.

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She is one of my all time favourite dds and has her spot in port reserved. She was a monster at t9, when the guns were better and hardly anyone knew about trb.

 

It is a shame she handles so poorly, but man can she be fun. 

 

I was rather disappointed By the Yugumo tbh, since she is just a slight improvement one hardly feels  (then again she didn't have the Shima torps back in the day). 

 

The entire line is quite good, if you can channel your inner Klingon that is. Oh and I do run rpf on ijn dds with good success. 

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6 minutes ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

She is one of my all time favourite dds and has her spot in port reserved. She was a monster at t9, when the guns were better and hardly anyone knew about trb.

 

It is a shame she handles so poorly, but man can she be fun. 

 

I was rather disappointed By the Yugumo tbh, since she is just a slight improvement one hardly feels  (then again she didn't have the Shima torps back in the day). 

 

The entire line is quite good, if you can channel your inner Klingon that is. Oh and I do run rpf on ijn dds with good success. 

Don't have the Yugumo yet, but looking forward to it. It may be a slight improvement only, but I find the Kagero already ok and typically it's T8-10 matches, so if yuugumo can perform as well in most areas and as good in some others, I'm fine with that.

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I like my Kagero, just need 3000 more XP and quite a few credits for Yuugumo, not sure on the F3 torpedos though 

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Thanks for all the comments. Guess spotting it is. Although concealment / surviveability is worse than the Akatsuki.

 

What I also dislike is less average XP per game, even though the next ship requires a huge amount of more XP.

 

From the statistics:

Akatsuki:

39% gun accuracy

4% torpedo accuracy

0.7 warships destroyed by battle / 1.52 destruction ratio

 

Kagero:

36% gun accuracy

2% torpedo accuracy (only half!)

so far (5 battles) nothing sunk, got destroyed 3 times.

 

so far, it isn't much fun to play. I enjoyed Minekaze and Isokaze as well as the V-2 most. Is there any high tier line I should pursue?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

Don't have the Yugumo yet, but looking forward to it. It may be a slight improvement only, but I find the Kagero already ok and typically it's T8-10 matches, so if yuugumo can perform as well in most areas and as good in some others, I'm fine with that.

 

For me the Yugumo played better than Kagero, I used it with the 93 mod.2 then mod.3 torpedoes, very nice damage, workable reload and usable guns if you need to. Torp booster was a viable choice and the concealment fine.

Ship I liked.

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6 minutes ago, SvR1983 said:

4% torpedo accuracy

2% torpedo accuracy (only half!)

Those are both low numbers. You're probably either torping from unnecessary distances, or you're torping too much on the white aim prediction. I can't tell without seeing you play, but those are the most common mistakes people make in DDs.

 

Normally, you should get as close as you safely can before you torp. The closer you are, the higher your hit rate will be. That can be quite a large difference sometimes.

 

If you're facing potatoes, sure, use the white indicator and fire everything there. But most of the time I find it's better to spread them out. One half-early and one half-late is a good baseline, since it covers smaller course adjustments. However, often you have to read your targets and anticipate their movements.

 

Finally, most of the time, don't bother torping someone who's running away. Those are almost always going to miss, since they have a lot of time to dodge, and that's even if the torps reach.

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2 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

Those are both low numbers. You're probably either torping from unnecessary distances, or you're torping too much on the white aim prediction. I can't tell without seeing you play, but those are the most common mistakes people make in DDs.

 

Normally, you should get as close as you safely can before you torp. The closer you are, the higher your hit rate will be. That can be quite a large difference sometimes.

 

If you're facing potatoes, sure, use the white indicator and fire everything there. But most of the time I find it's better to spread them out. One half-early and one half-late is a good baseline, since it covers smaller course adjustments. However, often you have to read your targets and anticipate their movements.

 

Finally, most of the time, don't bother torping someone who's running away. Those are almost always going to miss, since they have a lot of time to dodge, and that's even if the torps reach.

I torp a lot to deny access to an area.

Still, only 50% torpedo accuracy is quite bad. The biggest issue seems to be that the Kagero has only two volleys instead of three. So even for a BB, it's quite easy to evade.

 

The biggest problem I have right now is the low suviveability. I can either sit in the corner and do nothing, or play as a proper DD for around 5 minutes into the game. Before I must choose another ship because the issue that I cannot start a new battle after a ship has been destroyed, has still not been addressed.

 

Does it get better in Tier 9 and 10?

So far, it has been a huge letdown.

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I'm pretty sure the concealment on Kagero isn't worse than on Akatsuki, in fact Kagero has access to the T8+ Concealment module, with Concealment Expert and a basic 3%/4% camo it should have a detection range of 5.4Km, that's basically equal best in the game at over Tier 5, only matched by a few other IJN DD's.

If you're not playing with Concealment Expert, the module and a camo (in EVERY game) then you're dogfood in Kagero. Using your guns has to be done carefully due to people seeing you out to your max gun range for 20s from your last shot due to the gun bloom.

 

The torpedo accuracy issue is in your own hands, they pretty much go where you aim them, but that's a skill in itself. Not forgetting, as I said earlier, at T8+ some people are better at anticipating torpedoes and using WASD, plus the BB's aren't quite as lumbering. People have often figured out how to use Hydro as well.

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10 hours ago, SvR1983 said:

Thanks for all the comments. Guess spotting it is. Although concealment / surviveability is worse than the Akatsuki.

 

What I also dislike is less average XP per game, even though the next ship requires a huge amount of more XP.

 

From the statistics:

Akatsuki:

39% gun accuracy

4% torpedo accuracy

0.7 warships destroyed by battle / 1.52 destruction ratio

 

Kagero:

36% gun accuracy

2% torpedo accuracy (only half!)

so far (5 battles) nothing sunk, got destroyed 3 times.

 

so far, it isn't much fun to play. I enjoyed Minekaze and Isokaze as well as the V-2 most. Is there any high tier line I should pursue?

 

 

  • Not enough games
  • Your ship is probably not fully equipped
  • Is your captain fully trained for the ship?

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8 hours ago, SvR1983 said:

I torp a lot to deny access to an area.

Still, only 50% torpedo accuracy is quite bad. The biggest issue seems to be that the Kagero has only two volleys instead of three. So even for a BB, it's quite easy to evade.

 

The biggest problem I have right now is the low suviveability. I can either sit in the corner and do nothing, or play as a proper DD for around 5 minutes into the game. Before I must choose another ship because the issue that I cannot start a new battle after a ship has been destroyed, has still not been addressed.

 

Does it get better in Tier 9 and 10?

So far, it has been a huge letdown.

Sounds to me like this is your first experience in high tier dds which is why you struggle. To be fair, being top tier in a t8dd is problematic since t6-8 bbs are not as large a target and most are very maneuverable. 

 

Before pressing on I'd suggest you practice a lot on Kagero. Her play style is the same as the rest of the line and it will prevent you from being frustrated yourself, and frustrating your team. 

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Britisk T8 Premium DD Cossack will soon be released. It is a gunboat with 5.1 km detection range. It will make Kageros life very hard because it can always outspot and and outgun Kagero.

So sadly I wouldn't unlock the Kagero because I think the gameplay will be very frustrating in the future.

 

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