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Aragathor

ARA Nueve de Julio - a ship famous as a political prison

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Well it looks like the upcoming Pan-American premium cruiser Nueve de Julio was really famous for one thing, being a secret prison/concentration camp for political prisoners during the Dirty War in Argentina.

People were kidnapped without court order and imprisoned on the cruiser. They were tortured and held in inhuman conditions onboard.

 

@MrConway @Crysantos

Can we please get an official statement about why WG has decided to implement this ship in WoWS?

 

Sources:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fjuiciobahiablanca.wordpress.com%2F2015%2F02%2F04%2Fnacidx-en-el-9-de-julio%2F&edit-text=&act=url

 

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmemoria.telam.com.ar%2Fnoticia%2F-armada---2a--ronda-de-alegatos--con-descripcion-de-ccd_n5482

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Thanks for highlighting this. Wikipedia seems to confirm this.

Quote

From March 1976 and until at least November of that year,[3] she was used as a clandestine detention center. Disappeared people were held in cabins specifically converted into cells, while interrogations took place inside naval base's facilities.[2] At least one baby was born in captivity inside the ship, its fate remaining a mystery.[3]

 

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[BLITZ]
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You no like new gulag ship?

Here, I have ticket for visiting new gulag ship for you.

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Can we please get an official statement about why WG has decided to implement this ship in WoWS?

 

 As opposed to all the other warships that were designed to kill people? (by sinking enemy ships)

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I can already tell this is gonna be a good one. :Smile_popcorn:

 

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[CRU_]
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Shhhhhhhhhhhh! We may have to pay extra for little men walking the decks in chains version

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[W_I_G]
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13 minutes ago, SunSkaRe said:

 

 As opposed to all the other warships that were designed to kill people? (by sinking enemy ships)

i am against yamato in this game cause it was grave to ~4000 of its crew members... :Smile_trollface:

 

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2 minutes ago, SunSkaRe said:

 

 As opposed to all the other warships that were designed to kill people? (by sinking enemy ships)

 

Not an apt analogy.

 

Not that I'm particulary invested in the topic, though I'm slightly curious if WG missed that black spot in the ship's history.

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2 minutos antes, robihr dijo:

i am against yamato in this game cause it was grave to ~4000 of its crew members... :Smile_trollface:

 

 

Just remember the outcrying in NA when the Arizona was announced as a premium ship...

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8 minutes ago, Comodoro_Allande said:

 

Just remember the outcrying in NA when the Arizona was announced as a premium ship...

also i am against hood cause it detonated and i am against RNG in real life. :Smile_trollface:

 

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14 minutes ago, robihr said:

also i am against hood cause it detonated and i am against RNG in real life. :Smile_trollface:

 

that made me wish for a laughing facepalm emoji... :cap_haloween:

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Weekend Tester
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I think this is actually quite a valid criticism. The history of this ship is very distinct from the history of other potentially controversial ships we have in game which suffered losses in the line of duty such as Hood, Arizona, Indianapolis etc. The inclusion of those ships is absolutely justifiable in the context of the game, I don't think the same can necessarily be said here.

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34 minutes ago, SunSkaRe said:

 

 As opposed to all the other warships that were designed to kill people? (by sinking enemy ships)

 

If you want to compare a warship following ROE, to a ship used to illegally hold & murder "thought criminals" then go right ahead, just know, it speaks a lot about yourself...

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I suppose renaming her the General Belgrano is out of the question at this point? @MrConway @Crysantos Should be less..controversial.

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17 minutes ago, lafeel said:

I suppose renaming her the General Belgrano is out of the question at this point? @MrConway @Crysantos Should be less..controversial.

 

Not really as I lost friends on several of the RN ships during the Falklands war.

I was at school with a matelot who was on the Conqueror when she sank the Belgrano.

I worked for 9 months with a retired Torpedo Technician who prepared the torpedo that sank the Belgrano.  

 

To plenty of people still alive the Falklands war is a reality and calling it Belgrano would be deeply offensive.

 

Having read @Aragathor's post the other name is just about as unacceptable as it's the same as glorifying a Nazi death camp or Soviet gulag. Not good customer relations at all.

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37 minutes ago, Juanx said:

If you want to compare a warship following ROE, to a ship used to illegally hold & murder "thought criminals" then go right ahead, just know, it speaks a lot about yourself...

Yea and I also play Bismark cause I support the regime it was built to defend and so support concentration camps... guess it follows same logic pattern

 

 

On a serious note, people in forum like to be offended by everything and pretending something never existed is the way to go.

So you can either take it that WG wanted to add more content to the game and thought that ship would be interesting playwise or you can assume they just decided to introduce prision and interrogation as the new game mode.

 

 

As for me, despite learning something new about a possible new ship from OP post (had no idea what that ship was used from) dont have any problem whatsoever to have it introduced to the game.

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[-MM]
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I was never a big fan of shushing up history. If the addition of this ship makes people more aware of it's terrible history,  then it's a good thing in my book.

 

If not, I always liked the name Boise.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

Not really as I lost friends on several of the RN ships during the Falklands war.

I was at school with a matelot who was on the Conqueror when she sank the Belgrano.

I worked for 9 months with a retired Torpedo Technician who prepared the torpedo that sank the Belgrano.  

 

To plenty of people still alive the Falklands war is a reality and calling it Belgrano would be deeply offensive.

 

Having read @Aragathor's post the other name is just about as unacceptable as it's the same as glorifying a Nazi death camp or Soviet gulag. Not good customer relations at all.

Aye, well there are three other Brooklyn class possibilities in South America, one in Brazil, the other two in Chile that could qualify instead.

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18 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Aye, well there are three other Brooklyn class possibilities in South America, one in Brazil, the other two in Chile that could qualify instead.

 

Indeed, or just call it Boise and make it a USN premium.

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1 hour ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Having read @Aragathor's post the other name is just about as unacceptable as it's the same as glorifying a Nazi death camp or Soviet gulag.

We have a ship called Oktoberskaya Revolutsya...

Really, we should spend less time on some strange history-dodging (Nazi and Japanese flags - and now the matter of this ship and her name) and, if we want to be sensitive, just focus on not introducing original content that crosses lines (like, say, the "we love communism" camo for OR that has nothing to do with history but just glorifies/advertises communism).

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10 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

Indeed, or just call it Boise and make it a USN premium.

Or that indeed. Or Phoenix, after all they both had pretty eventfull carreers during WW2.

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8 minutes ago, eliastion said:

We have a ship called Oktoberskaya Revolutsya...

Really, we should spend less time on some strange history-dodging (Nazi and Japanese flags - and now the matter of this ship and her name) and, if we want to be sensitive, just focus on not introducing original content that crosses lines (like, say, the "we love communism" camo for OR that has nothing to do with history but just glorifies/advertises communism).

 

I agree that camo is also very offensive, the Hammer and Sickle is every bit as nasty as the Nazi used Swastika as the symbol of an oppressive and mass murderous regime.

I'm not overly sensitive, but the Falklands was recent, I lost friends and I know survivors from ships damaged or sunk in that war.

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2 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Can we please get an official statement about why WG has decided to implement this ship in WoWS?

 

Because they were making the model for another nation and it'd have been a shame not to reuse it.

That's litterally their only reason. Picking another would have been more work.

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Agreed on not shushing up history.

 

As a personal choice though, I sure as hell won't be paying for this one. USS Boise actually fought in WW2 and would be worthy of inclusion.

 

It's just that I signed up for a WARgame. Not torturing-our-own-civilians game. The Argentine ship just isn't relevant for this game.

 

 

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