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Rework of CVs

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[TORPZ]
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3 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

And how does this tie in with the point at hand?

AA is still a major balancing factor, no amount of stats will change that.

 

Besides, I don't see anything broken with his stats. The average player is stupid beyond belief, thus they get punished by CVs, leading to high influence beyond initial design for CVs. That's the biggest reason why the class is perceived as broken.

On the other hand a CV is next to powerless in any kind of skilled environment such as KotS.

AA is obviously not a balancing factor, or no-one would have stats like that. Ever. 

Also, you can't balance for the 1% or so who play Kots. You balance for the actual game population.

 

As such, class is broken.

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[PARAZ]
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6 minutes ago, Blinks said:

AA is obviously not a balancing factor, or no-one would have stats like that. Ever. 

 

Wow, your understanding of the game is worse than I thought. Maybe some examples will help you?

Some ships, like Kronhstadt or Musashi, get shafted in AA for their advantages. Other ships like DM or Minotaur get shafted because they have good AA.

Removing CVs means removing AA, which in itself results in rebalancing the entire game, practically redesigning it from scratch.

 

And actually most games which aim to be competitive balance around the top 1% because if it is balanced around the top 1%, it will inevitably be balanced for everyone else.

Remember, balance is to give the opposing sides equal chances to win the game outside of the human factor. That most people play abysmally bad and get punished for it is thus not a balancing problem.

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[TORPZ]
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9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Wow, your understanding of the game is worse than I thought. Maybe some examples will help you?

Some ships, like Kronhstadt or Musashi, get shafted in AA for their advantages. Other ships like DM or Minotaur get shafted because they have good AA.

Removing CVs means removing AA, which in itself results in rebalancing the entire game, practically redesigning it from scratch.

 

And actually most games which aim to be competitive balance around the top 1% because if it is balanced around the top 1%, it will inevitably be balanced for everyone else.

Remember, balance is to give the opposing sides equal chances to win the game outside of the human factor. That most people play abysmally bad and get punished for it is thus not a balancing problem.

I see you don't play the game much. That's a shame but let me explain what usually happens.

Most games don't have CV's. The classes that do have good AA? Do fine, the classes that don't? Do fine.

 

Remove CV's and nothing of value will be lost.

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[PARAZ]
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1 minute ago, Blinks said:

Most games don't have CV's. The classes that do have good AA? Do fine, the classes that don't? Do fine.

 

You think that matters? Fact is having good AA is considered an advantage whereas having bad AA is considered a drawback. Other advantages are lost when getting good AA and likewise advantages are gained when having bad AA. Developers use AA as a balancing tool, if it is removed the game must be rebalanced accordingly. It doesn't matter if you believe the game will be fine afterwards considering you've just failed Game Design 101.

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[PSO]
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2 hours ago, Blinks said:

Most games don't have CV's. The classes that do have good AA? Do fine, the classes that don't? Do fine.

 

True at all cray.gif ... and the solution had been so simple: just adding CV bot(s) to the random battle, even if it would be an exception from the rules ...

 

2 hours ago, Blinks said:

Remove CV's and nothing of value will be lost.

 

If the rework fails (and its threating to do so) this will certainly happen ... except everthing will be lost ...

 

Well, one reason and WGs intention is to bring WoWs to the consoles (MONEY!) and their opinion is, that the RTS-Style the CVs use, is deemed to be useless on consoles. That is true, a gamepad can never replace mouse and keyboard. And i dont know any RTS game that work (well) on consoles.

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[GEUS]
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Nothing of value will be lost ?

 

i am not the veteran like some of you guys but I can say that removing CV will be value lost , that from the people playing it and enjoying it so much. 

Still I believe , whatever stats may say , that CV is strong but most people complaining about it are the people that put themselves in a situation that they make themselves a target for CV. 

I do say “ most “ and not “ all “ 

i have had plenty of games with a carrier in the game and haven’t seen a single squad trying to attack me. 

 

If WG would remove the CV ( which they will NOT do ),  that would only be because of the people complaining about OP carriers because they can’t play with tactics when a CV is in the game. After CV they will complain about DD because their concealment is so good and they get torped all the time ..... etc

 

just learn to play with it , really 

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[P-W-C]
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I think that what they are doing is wrong. Now T5 CV is pretty balanced, CV can't torp smoke or drop bombs on manual, can't kill all planes in one second by strafing. WG needs to buff DDs AA so CV won't be harrasing them too much

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17 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

I think that what they are doing is wrong. Now T5 CV is pretty balanced, CV can't torp smoke or drop bombs on manual, can't kill all planes in one second by strafing. WG needs to buff DDs AA so CV won't be harrasing them too much

Of course it’s wrong , but I want to comment your second point. 

DD already have a high concealment , can avoid torps very good and can use smoke and almost be invisible when played right. I wouldn’t buff DD’s AA 

I guess people who don’t play CV and complaining about CV want this game to be so easy that they only have to point and shoot. 

Really , in my opinion it’s not wrong to have some difficulties and try your best to not get killed. I know it’s an arcade game but if they want it more easy , then better they go play Mario or Battlefield. 

No offence to your post 

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19 minutes ago, HoLeeKow said:

Of course it’s wrong , but I want to comment your second point. 

DD already have a high concealment , can avoid torps very good and can use smoke and almost be invisible when played right. I wouldn’t buff DD’s AA 

I guess people who don’t play CV and complaining about CV want this game to be so easy that they only have to point and shoot. 

Really , in my opinion it’s not wrong to have some difficulties and try your best to not get killed. I know it’s an arcade game but if they want it more easy , then better they go play Mario or Battlefield. 

No offence to your post 

I'm CV player too, but some unicuum ones like Farazelleth are like that "if I want this DD it will be dead" . Of course besides Kidd, Gearing with Def AA or Grozovoi. 

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Alpha Tester
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On 8/3/2018 at 11:31 PM, Shadeshot said:

I think the class should be dropped out of the game if im honest they have far too much influence over matches, I mean please explain to me for example a yama at tier x is suppose to survive an attack in the first 2mins when its spawned so far from any allies it cant even get any aa help at all, because it cant even reach them. 

 

I suppose we shall see what they plan but the class right now is an utter mess. Don't get me wrong it be nice to have them in the game but properly balanced into the game, but they just are not right now, plus playing them is boring too the ui is horrible, the actual flight controls are horrible. Its jus a shame its taken WG years to even consider rebuilding them, and that's if they get anywhere with it, I mean I think they are beyond help at this point and should of been addressed years ago.

Well sounds completely historically accurate to me. http://www.historynet.com/killing-the-yamato.htm

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1 hour ago, HoLeeKow said:

Of course it’s wrong , but I want to comment your second point. 

DD already have a high concealment , can avoid torps very good and can use smoke and almost be invisible when played right. I wouldn’t buff DD’s AA 

I guess people who don’t play CV and complaining about CV want this game to be so easy that they only have to point and shoot. 

Really , in my opinion it’s not wrong to have some difficulties and try your best to not get killed. I know it’s an arcade game but if they want it more easy , then better they go play Mario or Battlefield. 

No offence to your post 

The problem is that WG wants to make it look cool but it'll be almost unplayable. They got rid from manual attacks / alt in T4-5 and I'm playing Bogue sometimes and it's not tragedy. But this new mode... Omg. So even if they take down the alt as on T4 and 5 I would be much happier than making something totally crap to play. Oh, and because it's new there will be a lot of bugs in the first weeks, and as we know WG will need like 3 patches to solve them too. And BTW all that GZ testing and rebalancing it went to trash. :fish_palm:

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[GEUS]
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Taking away alt would be disaster for CV like Kaga , Enterprise etc because they have fighters from one tier lower. That would mean that Saipan always wins airbattles and the other normal CV’s from IJN always have to use both squadrons to take out the single squadron from US carriers. 

Kaga and Enterprise would be loosing fighters to easy against any carrier because they always have fighters that are lower tier. 

Strafe can suck big time sometimes when they take out your squad in one time but a good start would be the plane loss from Saipan when strafe out a dogfight and maybe make them tier 8 instead of 9. 

 

Lots of difficulties to solve there are :fish_nerv:

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Weekend Tester
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Wow, do you still have Cv in this game?  :))  i left this right after beta was over because of this, came back to check, nope, still not coming back. Have fun with your arty.

 

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[GEUS]
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Well 

looking twitch channel now about the rework and gameplay as we know it is totally gone. 

one big  squadron control only now with 3rd person view. A few planes per attack , the rest stays for next attack and the planes that finished the attack , return to carrier. 

Torps , bombs and rockets we have now. 

 

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I saw the stream... And just... WTF??

 

Currently carriers are enjoyable because I have two main jobs; first it's to protect the fleet from the enemy carrier and secondly sink enemy ships (and I say "sink", not just farm damage). There are lots of approaches to this. For instance I actively use the carrier´s weapons which means I need direct control on my carrier (for instance, when I'm next to an island close to the enemy).

 

Now all what carriers will do it's to race one against other in farming damage... Currently I attack dds first and then cruisers (without def aa). It's a totally proven fact (due my winrates) that It's better for the team than just farming damage on bbs.

There are so many wrong things with this, but I will point the two main ones:

 

- You can only deploy a defensive fighter squad on the selected location. Which means doing a carrier snipe will be extremely easy, just wait for the enemy´s squad to do it's attack run and then send your own one. Enemy carrier wouldn't be able to defend itself and also wouldn't be able to do any kind of evasive maneuvers on the incoming torpedoes.

That also could potentially lead that both carriers wouldn't send it's squad anywhere, just keeping them close to the carrier fearing that the enemy cv would snipe him.

 

- Infinite amount of planes means that the carrier will be more and more dangerous throught a battle. When there are fewer ships and those remaining will have some of it's aa destroyed by the battle. There will be no wear down on the carrier´s strike capability throught the battle (except a penalty which already it's in place).

Several times I was destroyed in battle due my tactic of going as close to the main battle as possible. But even then, most of these times I managed to wear down the enemy plane´s squads up to the point of forcing him to launch incomplete squads or even whipe out it's payload. Now, with infinite planes, all that effort of shooting down enemy planes would be useless. Meaning if one carrier gets destroyed the remaining one will be able to attack with total impunity with full force.

 

With these changes carriers will have a bigger influence in the battle! But also would be more boring, all what you will do it's to fly your squad towards the enemy, going to it's side or front and attack it over and over again. Hell, you don't even have to worry about the way back trip (which btw, will be quite awful, sometimes I need to avoid something on the back trip, like if I attacked a bb which it's snipping far on the map and there is a high aa cruiser on the middle. If planes would fly straight back then any aa cruiser could get on the path and farm your infinite planes.

 

What I like about the current carrier gameplay it's that I DO feel I'm controlling an Aircraft carrier. With the rework, seems like it's a poorman´s version of world of warplanes, controlling planes which comes from a mobile base spawn point.

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[GEUS]
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And all this because of some crying non-cv players who can’t understand that it’s their own fault that they get attacked. Keep crying to WG that we are sooooo OP but mark my words , they will have something more to complain about when 2 or 3 CV in one game work together and attack them from all sides together. They just want the CV out of the game or so weak that it’s almost useless and they will keep trying until they get what they want but I do think that WG did good with rework instead of deleting CV from the game. 

I’m really interested to try out the new concept but I do think the charm of my Kaga is gone now, same goes for Saipan , Enterprise and GZ. 

 

I guess we we just have to live with it , try it , hopefully enjoy it or get a refund. 

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[WH1TE]
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We should make a fitting goodbye to our CVs... Last day before patch we should do something... Not sure what, but we should... 

 

Because what I saw was... Horrible... And sure looks like it was done to push WoWs on consoles, not for CVs or their players... But since WG is actively trying to shrink the CV playerbase I should not be suprised...

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All the best bits of CV gameplay gone 

Did WG even ask the CV players what we wanted, because I don't think we asked for this

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Today I was being chased in my Zuiho by an enemy Dunquerke, had to manually sail throught some islands, allways making sure that the enemy bb doesn't have a clear firing line while I send my torpedo planes. All this was possible thanks to being able to control my carrier and I managed to survive and sink the bb (and win the battle). All the time I kept thinking "After the nerf this will not be possible anymore"

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[U-35]
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Watching the stream I must say this new meta looks promising. XP'ed all CV's and bought all premiums, but stopped playing CV's after GZ disaster, but contributing playing GZ during GZ test period. Initial impression of footage was the torpedo bombers, looked like DD torpedo attack from the air, really cool...

Good work @Sub_Octavian 

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[GEUS]
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For new players it maybe is nice but I really wonder how many refunds WG will be getting because I can understand that old school cv players will not like this 

 

I’m not old school but I enjoy it a lot and will just wait for testing and see what it’s like. 

 

But it one thing that for sure ; the charm and uniqueness is gone. 

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On 2.9.2018 at 4:18 PM, MacArthur92 said:

I think that what they are doing is wrong. Now T5 CV is pretty balanced, CV can't torp smoke or drop bombs on manual, can't kill all planes in one second by strafing. WG needs to buff DDs AA so CV won't be harrasing them too much

 

I dont agree. Whole T4-5 change was wrong. Now players are thrown into T6 without any actual experience how CVs play out. They just point and click with helluva lot more AA, skills, not enough reserves and get their seals clubbed. All these basic manual skills are mandatory to learn at low levels with low AA.

 

What is it with this dropping smokes? All other ship classes can drop torps and blind fire - why CVs shouldnt? Have you been surpriced in the smoke by CV too many times? Thats not the CVs fault.

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On 3.9.2018 at 10:31 AM, MacArthur92 said:

I'm CV player too, but some unicuum ones like Farazelleth are like that "if I want this DD it will be dead" . Of course besides Kidd, Gearing with Def AA or Grozovoi. 

 

So? Its the same with any other shipclass as well. If you want some cruiser, BB or enemy CV dead you can do it. Should you not to? Some ships should be untouchable to CV? Is there any other ship like that? Untouchable to some ship(class) in the game? BB that any DD cant sink or DD that any BB cant sink etc?

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