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Radar - And no NOT another whine Topic

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Hi All

 

Some thoughts from an average joe player.

 

Whilst I sit and read most topics coming though this page with great interest, the current increase in Radar ships has for me become a source of occasional frustration (normally after running into one coming round an Island and having no escape, my problem for not planning ahead by the way) and opportunity and this is why I like to think it has made me a better player, especially in my DD's.

 

Rather than just sailing straight into a cap or pushing as far as I can, like we perhaps used to do in the past when Radar wasn't as around as much, I now spend as much time as I can studying the enemy team and working out my plan of action, mainly taking into account the number & type of DD's and number and type of radar ships.  This has forced me into planning my route, escape routes, what my team might do or not do as the case maybe lol.  And perhaps you'll say, well we did that before anyway but for some of us still learning, this huge increase in radar has been of benefit and I like to hope that nowadays and also as time goes on, I will be off more help to my team as a DD.

 

To all DD players (the newer ones perhaps) no plan survives first contact but having a plan especially with these radar ships is essential, having thought about the problems on your map before the inevitable radar symbol popping up on your screen happens will give you a much better chance of surviving.  No plan means blundering from one encounter to another, having a plan means a greater chance of surviving and as a DD you are the eyes of your team mates, the longer you stay alive and in the fight the better the chance of helping your team win and perhaps sinking a few of those pesky radar ships.

 

Yours all at sea :Smile_honoring:

SKWK

 

 

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Funny thing is, you had such games even year ago. Either you adapted or got sunk.

 

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3 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Funny thing is, you had such games even year ago. Either you adapted or got sunk.

 

 or gave up on the game... 

Remind me? Whats the current customer retention rate like? ¬_¬
 

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If getting sunk is that frustrating for someone, that person should look for another game.

Getting sunk is normal in this game.

That is like stopp playing Countering Strike, because your avatar got shot...

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I'm tending to view the current radar spike in much the same way as the OP i.e. as a learning opportunity.

 

The key down-side (for me, anyway) is that a plethora of radar ships rather encourages passive play, which tends to be less fun - for me, anyway.

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11 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

If getting sunk is that frustrating for someone, that person should look for another game.

Getting sunk is normal in this game.

That is like stopp playing Countering Strike, because your avatar got shot...

2

 

igelenchi.gif

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Radar got worse with 0.7.6 and now it's sometimes just a gigantic ********* to the enemy DD.
You sneak up on the cap. You plan your exit route. You plan to immediately head out as soon as an enemy radar cruiser shows it's face, since there is no island with in 10km.
In comes a Worcester with 9.9km, almost 60 seconds lasting radar. With CE, Camo and Concealment mod this thing cannot be spotted if it radars you.
You turn, pop engine boost and flee... and stay detected until you inevitably get sunk and don't even know WHAT it was that radared you. All he needs to do is follow you and you are DEAD.

This is Minotaur AA detection range, just for DDs.

Such did happen in my Z-52 and I didn't play more than a single game in it since then.
Radar was bad, now it's worse.

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Worcester has a 400m window for radaring unseen. A hard thing to do. And if he does not fire to stay hidden, that is even better.

A Minotaur has 1.100m window and is in the game a lot longer...

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8 minutes ago, TheEntireGermanEmpire said:

Radar got worse with 0.7.6 and now it's sometimes just a gigantic ********* to the enemy DD.
You sneak up on the cap. You plan your exit route. You plan to immediately head out as soon as an enemy radar cruiser shows it's face, since there is no island with in 10km.
In comes a Worcester with 9.9km, almost 60 seconds lasting radar. With CE, Camo and Concealment mod this thing cannot be spotted if it radars you.
You turn, pop engine boost and flee... and stay detected until you inevitably get sunk and don't even know WHAT it was that radared you. All he needs to do is follow you and you are DEAD.

Worcester radar is 9.9 km and last 48 seconds even with the Radar Upgrade.

And its detection range is 9.5km, so any DD doing a 180° to flee will spots him since they have a turning radius of 560-700m usually.

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6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

A Minotaur has 1.100m window and is in the game a lot longer...

 

Dont forget Chapayev. Way more powerfull radar imo. Also, radar Mino´s are still an exemption and most likely will be for quite a while.

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22 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Worcester radar is 9.9 km and last 48 seconds even with the Radar Upgrade.

And its detection range is 9.5km, so any DD doing a 180° to flee will spots him since they have a turning radius of 560-700m usually.

If you prepare and do not sail straight into a possible Radar ship you are more likely to have a 90° and lower angle. So you actually get punished if you prepare an exit...
Minos do not tend to have radar though, since they pay a significant price for that and therefore are way less present in the game. Worcester however...
Even if I spot him if he opens fire, I'm still caught in the deathtrap.

48 seconds is way more than enough to get you nuked.

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16 minutes ago, TheEntireGermanEmpire said:

If you prepare and do not sail straight into a possible Radar ship you are more likely to have a 90° and lower angle. So you actually get punished if you prepare an exit...
Minos do not tend to have radar though, since they pay a significant price for that and therefore are way less present in the game. Worcester however...
Even if I spot him if he opens fire, I'm still caught in the deathtrap.

48 seconds is way more than enough to get you nuked.

Today I always plan my route and use torp range circle to show when I go to kill zone.Still it happens quite often that they radar me when there is 3 or more radars(and dont say it was also earlier...it was really rare).Yesterday I was radarred and killed in 4 games in row without I was able to do a lot.Normally I was able to escape from first situation and tried from somewhere else and radarred again and killed.Is that frustating...yes it is.The only option seems to drive in same area with bbs but that make dd play boring.Other solution is playing dds only in low tier.

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30 minutes ago, TheEntireGermanEmpire said:


Minos do not tend to have radar though, since they pay a significant price for that and therefore are way less present in the game.

Does not matter. Because according to you, one time is already enough.

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1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

The key down-side (for me, anyway) is that a plethora of radar ships rather encourages passive play, which tends to be less fun - for me, anyway.

This.

 

I've started spending a lot of time in DDs just coasting back and forth at a safe distance, trying to keep people spotted*. Going for caps tends to be pretty suicidal unless there's a convenient island within the capture area to hide behind. E.g. last night I had a Maass game which basically just had me cautiously sneaking up on the enemies coming up one flank, only to be radared by a Chapayev as soon as I spotted him. Cue:

 

 

I got away with about a quarter of my health shaved off. Repeat this two more times, and aside from a Scharnhorst (or Gneis, one of those two anyway) eating five torps** I didn't really contribute much besides spotting. Eventually the Chapayev ran out of radars, but by that point I was at around quarter health and really couldn't do much except play sheepdog and keep the enemy team spotted while they slowly clustered together behind their spawn area and got worn down by the rest of my team. 

 

At least I did manage to torp that bloody Chapayev just before the game ended. Revenge!

 

I mean, it worked. But aside from the approximately one and a half minutes I was radared, it wasn't terribly exciting.

 

*That is, when I'm sober and don't just derp my drunken, inattentive self right into a flock of CLs just waiting to abuse my lolibote arse.

 

**Which was really more down to his lack of attention than to my skill

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At a certain point, the amount of radar will cause a cascading effect that will alter over all game balance.  Are we there yet, unknown but WG should be at least monitoring it.

 

The idiom the straw that broke the camel's back, alluding to the proverb "it is the last straw that breaks the camel's back", describes the seemingly minor or routine action which causes an unpredictably large and sudden reaction, because of the cumulative effect of small actions.

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22 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

 only to be radared by a Chapayev as soon as I spotted him.

 

22 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

Eventually the Chapayev ran out of radars.

The chappy's radar lasts 20 seconds. Once you have survived that (by running away and wiggling) you ideally want to get straight back to spotting him. Don't give him the opportunity to let his radar come off cool down. Use the time his radar is on CD to keep him perma spotted while pinging him for your team to shoot. 

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As with all things in WoWS.

 

Learn

Adapt

Survive

 

or

 

carry on regardless and die

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27 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

 

The chappy's radar lasts 20 seconds. Once you have survived that (by running away and wiggling) you ideally want to get straight back to spotting him. Don't give him the opportunity to let his radar come off cool down. Use the time his radar is on CD to keep him perma spotted while pinging him for your team to shoot. 

Works when there's only one, with two or more it becomes a dice game if the others are going to chain their radars, which is likely since now they have an approx location - so you can stay away, go to another cap or roll the dice, either way tends to become a passive game at distance when there are many radars and from three and up it just becomes a frustrating exercise running and dodging until late game where maybe you can do more... Secondly, it seems to me that I often experience that radar ship are not targeted and focused by allies even when kept spotted - they go for the fat BB targets in stead, making it a high risk move with no reward to challenge the radar ships. even though radar by itself are by no means over powered, the number of radar ships can quickly make it so that the DD impact becomes negligible and frustrating.

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23 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

 

The chappy's radar lasts 20 seconds. Once you have survived that (by running away and wiggling) you ideally want to get straight back to spotting him. Don't give him the opportunity to let his radar come off cool down. Use the time his radar is on CD to keep him perma spotted while pinging him for your team to shoot. 

After that first situation you have 1 - 3 k hp left...do you go back to spot...that chapa is there alone and with that hp you cant fight against any ship with guns.In that situation I start to play as a long range torpedo boat(is not very easy with 10 km torps when there is radarships with same range)

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3 hours ago, Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty said:

Hi All

 

Some thoughts from an average joe player.

 

Whilst I sit and read most topics coming though this page with great interest, the current increase in Radar ships has for me become a source of occasional frustration (normally after running into one coming round an Island and having no escape, my problem for not planning ahead by the way) and opportunity and this is why I like to think it has made me a better player, especially in my DD's.

This helps the players that don't do this already.

 

The another perspective is - does the increasing number of radars improve the game as a whole? If more ships should have radar - could gameplay improve by adjusting length of time for the radars? Could it improve by making them directional or prevent them seeing through islands? The game is changed and improved all the time. Suggesting a change doesn't mean there's an inability to cope with the mechanic, as many like to think. Often it's the case..

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55 minutes ago, Wildf1re said:

Works when there's only one, with two or more it becomes a dice game if the others are going to chain their radars, which is likely since now they have an approx location - so you can stay away, go to another cap or roll the dice, either way tends to become a passive game at distance when there are many radars and from three and up it just becomes a frustrating exercise running and dodging until late game where maybe you can do more... Secondly, it seems to me that I often experience that radar ship are not targeted and focused by allies even when kept spotted - they go for the fat BB targets in stead, making it a high risk move with no reward to challenge the radar ships. even though radar by itself are by no means over powered, the number of radar ships can quickly make it so that the DD impact becomes negligible and frustrating.

2 does make it more of a dice roll if they are together. Teams not shooting useful targets is always a bone of contention.

52 minutes ago, evp66 said:

After that first situation you have 1 - 3 k hp left...do you go back to spot...that chapa is there alone and with that hp you cant fight against any ship with guns.In that situation I start to play as a long range torpedo boat(is not very easy with 10 km torps when there is radarships with same range)

You're losing far too much health if you manage to lose 10-15k in 20 seconds. You spot the chappy over 10km away so when he radars he is about 10km away. It's about 2 maybe 3 volleys to dodge before it runs out. You should be more likely to lose 1-3k, not have that much remaining

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8 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

2 does make it more of a dice roll if they are together. Teams not shooting useful targets is always a bone of contention.

You're losing far too much health if you manage to lose 10-15k in 20 seconds. You spot the chappy over 10km away so when he radars he is about 10km away. It's about 2 maybe 3 volleys to dodge before it runs out. You should be more likely to lose 1-3k, not have that much remaining

IF chappy is in open water and there is no other ships in shooting range and you have agile dd...how often situation is like this in first 10min...If you are radarred in early game with Akizuki you are in big trouble.I play several DDs in high tier and only Khaba dont suffer current meta.

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The main problem i have with DD gameplay these days: Flanking is impossible. (with RPF and 3+ radars per team)

Flanking is the solution to entrenched position, yet WG once again show their favoritism for using the Bigger Hammer (TM) approach by forcing teams to bash straight through any entrenched position by killing all it's friends.

 

3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Worcester has a 400m window for radaring unseen. A hard thing to do. And if he does not fire to stay hidden, that is even better.

A Minotaur has 1.100m window and is in the game a lot longer...

The radar minos are very rare, only really seen after the recent Ranked season and they are devastating to DDs.

Worchester on the other hand always has radar.

 

3 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

Worcester radar is 9.9 km and last 48 seconds even with the Radar Upgrade.

And its detection range is 9.5km, so any DD doing a 180° to flee will spots him since they have a turning radius of 560-700m usually.

Doesnt matter what the window is, even if it is only 100 m. Turning takes time. Once radared there is no escape from 49+ s radar = death.

3 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Dont forget Chapayev. Way more powerfull radar imo. Also, radar Mino´s are still an exemption and most likely will be for quite a while.

chapayev radar is very much survivable due to short duration.

 

If all radars had max 25-30s duration the prevalence wouldnt be quite as bad since most dds can survive (barely) that long.

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