German BBs

[sound_chaser]

Has someone else also noticed that German BBs have become almost a burden (for their own teams) in this game? In most of the games, Bismarck and Tirpitz are consistently underperforming, both in terms of final results and in-game perception. As a matter of fact, I tend to make predictions at the very start of a game, right when I see the MM, about who will win, solely based on how many of Bismarck/Tirpitz each team has (i.e. the less of those, the higher chance of victory).  To some extent, the above applies to Der Grosse and Kurfurst as well.

 

I don't have access to the actual stats about this, and, of course, it is just a personal perception. However, has someone else noticed this? If yes, why do you think is that? Power creep, less effectiveness of the ship and/or misusage by their captains?

[orzel286]

It's "typical e-100 driver" who switched games.

[jss78]

It's just that a lot of people are attracted to BB's to feel safe. So they get this heavily armoured ship with punchy long range guns. If max range is 20km they play at 15–20 km.

 

The real problem is that German BB's attract these people because they're so hard to kill, but they're particularly bad at long range. You can't hit stuff and the damage is mediocre.

 

They really take an experienced BB player who can ride that fine line between pushing and over-extending, between tanking damage and getting deleted. It's really not particularly easy.

 

I kinda wish these people would instead play Nagatos, Kongos and such.

[HaachamaShipping]

For Bismarck/Tirpitz in randoms, I'd say it doesn't matter as much. In Ranked, yeah, it isn't a great pick (still can be an asset though) For the T9, the FdG is often a worse asset than most other T9s, as there actually exist excellent T9 BBs like Alsace, Missouri and Musashi to just crap on it. Großer Kurfürst is eh. I consider Conqueror the worse ship for relying on such an ally.

[Exocet6951]

1 minute ago, jss78 said:

I kinda wish these people would even play Nagatos, Kongos and such.

 

Nagato would get so buffed that it would get an underwater citadel and a radar 

[HaachamaShipping]

7 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

Nagato would get so buffed that it would get an underwater citadel and a radar 

Just because a line is popular and people play it like crap doesn't mean it gets buffed. Look at Shima, which at long last got a concealment buff, but otherwise, IJN DDs continue being mediocre. 

[Exocet6951]

6 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Just because a line is popular and people play it like crap doesn't mean it gets buffed. Look at Shima, which at long last got a concealment buff, but otherwise, IJN DDs continue being mediocre. 

 

Yeah but one is a loathed-by-the-developer DD branch, the other would be a BB 

[Robber_Baron]

15 minutes ago, jss78 said:

I kinda wish these people would instead play Nagatos, Kongos and such.

The last time I was annoyed by a max range sniper was by a Kongou player. They might be better for longer ranges than German BBs, but are no snipers either. But this guy explained to me he had 21 km range, so he stayed at 21 km distance, and I should l2p.

 

Yes, in fact, I can use some improvement in BBs, I think I'm too passive or don't know how to aim. But not as extreme as this dude.

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

I dont think german bbs are unreliable. I play the Bismarck and the Kurfurst and I love them both.

The bismarck for e.g. is much easier to handle than say an alabama at tier 8 for new players. I feel the German bbs are more versatile and have good enough fire power to hold their own if you know how to use it.

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

7 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

Yeah but one is a loathed-by-the-developer DD branch, the other would be a BB 

It's the IJN DD branch. Soon to be joined by Kitakaze and Harugumo, two ships that certainly could need some help.

[Exocet6951]

1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Quote

loathed-by-the-developer DD branch

It's the IJN DD branch.

 

Tomato tomayto 

[El2aZeR]

Nah, in fact KM BBs are too strong due to being way too braindead.

Although that applies to almost every BB nowadays.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

Nah, in fact KM BBs are too strong due to being way too braindead.

Although that applies to almost every BB nowadays.

On average, maybe. In capable hands, I consider the IJN line better across pretty much all tiers up to T8. T9 and T10 I cannot comment on.

[sound_chaser]

Alle 7/1/2018 alle 16:47, jss78 ha scritto:

It's just that a lot of people are attracted to BB's to feel safe. So they get this heavily armoured ship with punchy long range guns. If max range is 20km they play at 15–20 km.

 

The real problem is that German BB's attract these people because they're so hard to kill, but they're particularly bad at long range. You can't hit stuff and the damage is mediocre.

 

They really take an experienced BB player who can ride that fine line between pushing and over-extending, between tanking damage and getting deleted. It's really not particularly easy.

 

I kinda wish these people would instead play Nagatos, Kongos and such.

I totally agree

 

Alle 7/1/2018 alle 17:28, El2aZeR ha scritto:

Nah, in fact KM BBs are too strong due to being way too braindead.

Although that applies to almost every BB nowadays.

I don't agree. Actually, I am not a BB main, but I consider the German BB the weakest ones overall, simply because you can never rely on their guns. We all know that dispersion affects every BB to some extent, but in the case of German BBs, you are way too affected by randomness (even trolled, most of the times). And yes you are tanky, yes have turtleback, yes you have secondaries but the main guns are the bread and butter of any battleship, at least as far as I am concerned. They can be good brawlers, but brawling requires perfect timing to be successful

[Hades_warrior]

1 hour ago, soviet_pobedi said:

Has someone else also noticed that German BBs have become almost a burden (for their own teams) in this game? In most of the games, Bismarck and Tirpitz are consistently underperforming, both in terms of final results and in-game perception. As a matter of fact, I tend to make predictions at the very start of a game, right when I see the MM, about who will win, solely based on how many of Bismarck/Tirpitz each team has (i.e. the less of those, the higher chance of victory).  To some extent, the above applies to Der Grosse and Kurfurst as well.

 

I don't have access to the actual stats about this, and, of course, it is just a personal perception. However, has someone else noticed this? If yes, why do you think is that? Power creep, less effectiveness of the ship and/or misusage by their captains?

Since we have French BB line there is no much purpose of German BB's in game.

Tho I hated to play Bismarck I know many like that ship.

I might force myself to finish grind on Grose to get Kurfurst. There is also free EXP conversion from tomorrow for 35:1 so I might a bit short that grind.

[ClappingLollies]

When i see German BB's i automatically assume they are potatoes. Been like that since they came out. 

The German BB line is a "noob friendly" line. You don't get punished for mistakes, you have citadel protection, you don't need to aim (shells go everywhere. Often one of the shells go into my citadel and secondaries goes daka daka for you) and you have hydro protection against DD's. AA is also pretty darn good. 

 

That is why so many potatoes play them. It's simply because they are potato friendly. 

 

I imagine this is what the Bismarck and Tirpitz players are listening to when sailing around in spawn missing targets only to yolo after the game is already lost:

 

[lafeel]

To be fair @MortenTardo that can be a very dangerous assumption to make.

 

Personally I think the problem lies less with the ships, and more with the quality of the player(s) behind the wheel.

[ClappingLollies]

1 minute ago, lafeel said:

To be fair @MortenTardo that can be a very dangerous assumption to make.

Nah. Ofc you don't show them broadside or give them a free kill on you.

[HaachamaShipping]

50 minutes ago, Hades_warrior said:

Since we have French BB line there is no much purpose of German BB's in game.

Tho I hated to play Bismarck I know many like that ship.

I might force myself to finish grind on Grose to get Kurfurst. There is also free EXP conversion from tomorrow for 35:1 so I might a bit short that grind.

I lol'd. German BBs still are in a very comfortable spot and the notion the French made them obsolete is simply laughable. Just alone because the core strength of the Germans, their sheer tankiness, is not something the French can replicate. Frankly, of all the lines, I consider the French to be amongst the least tanky.

I still play Bismarck frequently, it's a rather solid ship that maybe has not the broadside weight of Amagi or NC, but it certainly can hold its own against a Richelieu and especially Gascogne. I consider Amagi a better ship allround, but return to Bismarck because it's comfortable to play, not just for the potato-friendly armour, but the overall handling of the ship and the damage resistance allow for some really fun experiences.

[Hades_warrior]

9 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I lol'd. German BBs still are in a very comfortable spot and the notion the French made them obsolete is simply laughable. Just alone because the core strength of the Germans, their sheer tankiness, is not something the French can replicate. Frankly, of all the lines, I consider the French to be amongst the least tanky.

I still play Bismarck frequently, it's a rather solid ship that maybe has not the broadside weight of Amagi or NC, but it certainly can hold its own against a Richelieu and especially Gascogne. I consider Amagi a better ship allround, but return to Bismarck because it's comfortable to play, not just for the potato-friendly armour, but the overall handling of the ship and the damage resistance allow for some really fun experiences.

Only better about German vs French is more tanky armor and Hydro, but on the fire power side, huge difference.

I dont remember how much Bismarcks I killed with my Richelieu, easy.

Speaking of German holding against others, maybe you played against some BB players who are bad in French BB's but French guns can easy deal 10-20k damage and more per salvo on German BB's. Personal experience of course.

 

I didnt like Amagi at all, just like Bismarck. But I do like Yamato a lot, no matter of his weaknesses.

[sound_chaser]

1 hour ago, MortenTardo said:

When i see German BB's i automatically assume they are potatoes. Been like that since they came out. 

The German BB line is a "noob friendly" line. You don't get punished for mistakes, you have citadel protection, you don't need to aim (shells go everywhere. Often one of the shells go into my citadel and secondaries goes daka daka for you) and you have hydro protection against DD's. AA is also pretty darn good. 

 

That is why so many potatoes play them. It's simply because they are potato friendly. 

 

I imagine this is what the Bismarck and Tirpitz players are listening to when sailing around in spawn missing targets only to yolo after the game is already lost:

 

lol you made me laugh

[Hannibalurg]

1 hour ago, MortenTardo said:

The German BB line is a "noob friendly" line.

 

 

2015 - US BB's are Noob friendly

2016 -  KM BB's are Noob friendly

2017 - RN BB's are Noob friendly

2018 - waiting for someone to call out Frenchies for Noob friendly BB's. now that it's 2018 after all. 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

The armour of German BBs is hugely overrated as they've got a big squishy superstructure to drill into... 

 

Being hard to citadel is largely irrelevant when you can slap one in the superstructure/upper hull area for 15k+

 

Plus their firepower tends to be fairly poor.

 

Saying that, I still enjoy my Scharnhorst but that's about all I do in the line, some Tirpitz occasionally with the 100% FXP camo too. Although that's a bit of Wallet Warrior! 

The upcoming T6 Hood like Prem BC might be interesting too...

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, Hades_warrior said:

Only better about German vs French is more tanky armor and Hydro, but on the fire power side, huge difference.

I dont remember how much Bismarcks I killed with my Richelieu, easy.

Speaking of Gemrna holding against others, maybe you played against some BB players who are bad in French BB's but French guns can easy deal 10-20k damage and more per salvo on German BB's. Personal experience of course.

 

I didnt like Amagi at all, just like Bismarck. But I do like Yamato a lot, no matter of his weaknesses.

The only thing the Richelieu has over the Bismarck is 8 guns front, allowing bow tanking. That's it. And speed boost, but that's easily the least useful consumable gimmick of any BB line that has such (compared to RN super heal and German hydro). If the Bismarck likewise angles though., neither side is likely to land huge salvos on the other, because they both cannot overmatch bow plating. Assuming both are secondary-specced, the Bismarck's secondaries actually can hurt Richelieu, Richelieu in return only can bet on fire RNG, because Bismarck's armour deck and strong upper belt mean that even with IFHE, very few parts of the ship can actually be penetrated. Without IFHE, only the superstructure can be penetrated. If the Richelieu is not secondary specced, just move the Bismarck up to where you have the Richelieu in secondary range and burn it down with ease, while bouncing shells. Richelieu in reverse won't outrun you and if the Richelieu turns, it gives broadside. And against a Richelieu that provides enough broadside, you deal pretty similar amounts of damage.

 

Outside duels, as WoWS is not a 1v1 simulator, if you can make use of all your 8 guns (and you can also just shoot a different ship with the rear guns), Bismarck has better dpm than Richelieu, having the same caliber and number of barrels, but 26 seconds base reload instead of 30 seconds. Gascogne as a premium, doesn't have the convenient Richelieu gun layout, while for BB vs BB action, Tirpitz obviously can be even meaner.

 

And if you want to argue about "But maybe you only met potato French", I may point out that most people in this thread seem to agree that the Germans are infamous for attracting morons. So, that point can be thrown right back at you.

 

Honestly, I got more respect for the North Carolina with its good accuracy and improved normalisation angles than for some Richelieu that is the least threatening BB at T8 to a Bismarck, aside from maybe Monarch.

[ShinGetsu]

2 hours ago, Riselotte said:

On average, maybe. In capable hands, I consider the IJN line better across pretty much all tiers up to T8. T9 and T10 I cannot comment on.

T9 there's Izumo, and the poor lady have to compete against Iowa, Missouri and Alsace, each of them a strong contender for "best tier for tier BB in the game."

 

At t10, I believe it's rather balanced. I tend to think GK is the weakest of them all, but between Yamato and her lolpen/accuracy combo, Montana and her incredibly heavy and accurate broadside, Conkek and her heal/stupid guns, République and her speed/very dangerous gunnery (though it cannot tank sh#t)...