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Felixshoen

Please Fix Radar/Sonar

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In no naval battle ever did any ship park behind a mountain, hit radar, then the rest of his fleet shoot whatever the radar lit.  Ever.

 

So, why is this ridiculous ability in WOWS?  It doesn't seem like it would be too hard to use regular line of sight rules with radar/sonar.  Especially

since both systems ARE line of sight only.  When there were only a few radar ships of fairly limited range this wasn't so much of a problem.

Now I am finding the typical game having 3 or more radar ships per side.  More sonar dd's are coming and the Black will be available with a steel purchase.

 

Running a top tier DD is no longer much fun.

 

Right now you can:

Play a cap battle and expect a 4 minute game as ships you cannot see or shoot light you up for everyone else to shoot

-or-

play off the cap hoping for aggressive teammates to push while you flank.  This of course wont happen.  What does happen is your team turns away from cap when you do.  Then they spam the 

square you are in and start insulting you in chat.  Some allies even shoot at you in frustration because capping is "your job".  You end the game with a loss and find that 4-5 of your players reported you.

Joy, thanks guys.  So, what to do.

 

I know what i'm going to do if radar isn't fixed.  I'm dumping my high tier DD's and using lower tier DD's where a destroyer can still function in it's assigned role.  As far as any new DD line?

Well, totally ignoring it.  Why bother spending time and money only to face the same situation that exists now, only in a different hull.  It's the game mechanics that are broken, not the ships

themselves.

 

Fixing radar will only improve gameplay by making whatever ship has radar to at least expose some of its hull to employ it.  No more magic spotting button.

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In no naval battle ever could you extinguish a fully burning ship with a press of button or could you repair a ship in seconds with a press of a button.

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@Felixshoen

hello my precious special snowflake, you must be new in the internet

 

 

and fixed that for you

16 minutes ago, Felixshoen said:

Fixing radar becoming a better player will only improve gameplay

 

 

15 minutes ago, Felixshoen said:

I know what i'm going to do if radar isn't fixed. 

No one, and I mean really no one, cares what you are going to do... no one!

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13 minutes ago, principat121 said:

@Felixshoen

hello my precious special snowflake, you must be new in the internet

 

 

and fixed that for you

 

 

No one, and I mean really no one, cares what you are going to do... no one!

Yes they care and start whining if DD dont try to cap

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32 minutes ago, Felixshoen said:

Running a top tier DD is no longer much fun.

 

This has been discussed to death, but a lot of good DD players will disagree.

 

It's just not like in low to mid tiers where you can just sail into any cap, smoke up and be safe. You have to bait the radar, know where and when the radar ships can appear, and work with your team (yeah, I know, get a division) to get them killed. If you don't like high tier solo play just play mid tier and you'll see a lot less radar. But don't complain that high tier DD are unplayable because it's just not true.

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FYI there is an active topic on this subject already:

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

FYI there is an active topic on this subject already:

 

That's only 1 of the 10 or so created in the last week. Seems to be the favourite whine topic.

 

Oh and before people say "but you only play radar ships" I play about 45% of my games in high tier DD's (no you can't check my stats are hidden and will stay that way - mostly because it annoys the stat whores).

 

Oh and the whole "realism" argument goes totally out of the window as:-

1. This is a game NOT a simulator.

2. If it was realistic all maps would be ocean.

3. Fires and floodings take more than a few seconds to remedy, as do jammed turrets etc.

4. Most gunfire would miss.

5. Radar and Hydro would be on permanently.

6. All fleets would be little more than AA pickets for the CV's and would never get in gun or torpedo range.

etc

etc

etc

.....

 

It's a daft argument to use.

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We should really start keeping count of how many people start a new topic about this when the old one is still active...

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1 hour ago, Felixshoen said:

In no naval battle ever did any ship park behind a mountain, hit radar, then the rest of his fleet shoot whatever the radar lit.  Ever.

In no naval battle ever did any captain press a button to magically plug all leaks and extinguish all fires onboard, while also (just as magically) recovering full effectiveness of destroyed engine and/or rudder.

In no naval battle ever did any ship suddenly disappear by moving further than an arbitrary range (influenced by the paintjob and captain's skills at hiding ships in the sea).

And don't get me started on the fact that Radar in WoWs overheats after some arbitrary time (sometimes as short as 20 seconds) and needs to be prepared for another go. And then after a couple (3-4?) uses it just breaks down completely and needs to be re-installed in port before the next battle :Smile_teethhappy:

 

Seriously. I'm all for changes to Radar so that it doesn't work through islands but pulling the real-life card as a serious argument (your the opening argument, no less) in this discussion is ridiculous.

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funny how there was not one single constructive comment after my post, not that I expected one. I know how to bait and have played DD's for years. But, until you play in a match with a fletcher versus a Moskva, donskoi, 2 new orleans, and 2 missouris on Shatter you really haven't fully experienced what a ridiculous game mechanic radar and sonar are right now.

 

And yes, I know this is a game but like WOT it tries to be somewhat realistic.  But, the farther away from realism you get, the poorer the gameplay gets. just sayin.

 

Also, if the majority of players likes the game as is well leave it as is.  But have you noticed since the new American line how much more rare the 10 DD game is?  

Most of the games I've been in the past week have been 2 DD's per side.  Frustrating play just isn't fun, and I play this game for fun.

 

also, Elastion:  about realism

there is a huge difference between a module simulating the crew putting out fires (which they do) and a module simulating radar by allowing it so see thru solid rock.  And camo schemes did help reduce spotting ranges and crews could reduce absolute spotting ranges by making fuel and pressure changes to the boiler to produce less smoke. ( the captain skill represents crew skill). these are understandable.

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32 minutes ago, Felixshoen said:

funny how there was not one single constructive comment after my post, not that I expected one. I know how to bait and have played DD's for years. But, until you play in a match with a fletcher versus a Moskva, donskoi, 2 new orleans, and 2 missouris on Shatter you really haven't fully experienced what a ridiculous game mechanic radar and sonar are right now.

 

And yes, I know this is a game but like WOT it tries to be somewhat realistic.  But, the farther away from realism you get, the poorer the gameplay gets. just sayin.

 

Also, if the majority of players likes the game as is well leave it as is.  But have you noticed since the new American line how much more rare the 10 DD game is?  

Most of the games I've been in the past week have been 2 DD's per side.  Frustrating play just isn't fun, and I play this game for fun.

 

No constructive comments because you made yet another Radar moan thread when there are many on the first few pages of the forum, it's tedious.

 

As to the bit I've bolded I've had that scenario repeatedly on every high tier map in Fletcher, additionally:-

Gearing

Shimakaze

Akizuki

Z52 and 46

Grozevoi

Yueyang

Chung Mu

 

The reality of a new line changing what ships play is nothing new, in fact it's a constant of every new line release. In truth as a DD player I prefer less DD's as they are far the bigger risk to me than Radar cruisers over the course of a game.

 

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Alle 6/29/2018 alle 18:06, Felixshoen ha scritto:

funny how there was not one single constructive comment after my post, not that I expected one. I know how to bait and have played DD's for years. But, until you play in a match with a fletcher versus a Moskva, donskoi, 2 new orleans, and 2 missouris on Shatter you really haven't fully experienced what a ridiculous game mechanic radar and sonar are right now.

Damn. I thought I had some experience in DDs, but - unfortunately - I only have

1433 Random battles in Akizuki

463 Random battles in Shimakaze

162 Random battles in Yugumo

111 Random battles in Grozovoi

plus some other t8+ DDs below 100 battles...

No Fletcher there. The closest I got is my 75 battles in Chung Mu and even there I can't guarantee there was one with a Moskva, Donskoi, 2 NOs, 2 Missouris AND all of that on Shatter, so I clearly haven't fully experienced what a ridiculous game mechanic radar and sonar are right now :Smile_sad:

 

Alle 6/29/2018 alle 18:06, Felixshoen ha scritto:

Also, if the majority of players likes the game as is well leave it as is.  But have you noticed since the new American line how much more rare the 10 DD game is?  

Errrm. And that's a bad thing why, exactly? NOBODY likes 10 DD games. BBs don't like them because they're scared of torps, cruisers don't like them because even nailing an enemy DD only hurts the enemy for 20% total DD power (and if you're British, prepare to be torp-flushed out of your smokes), DDs hate them because they spot them and their torps (in case of torpboats) or make DD hunting much less rewarding (see the cruiser perspective).

Good riddance, I'd say - I'm really not sure why you simultaneously complain about Radar AND point out the one clearly positive change that was brought to us by this recent Radarmonium.

 

Alle 6/29/2018 alle 18:13, Felixshoen ha scritto:

also, Elastion:  about realism

there is a huge difference between a module simulating the crew putting out fires (which they do) and a module simulating radar by allowing it so see thru solid rock.  And camo schemes did help reduce spotting ranges and crews could reduce absolute spotting ranges by making fuel and pressure changes to the boiler to produce less smoke. ( the captain skill represents crew skill). these are understandable.

No, the crew putting out fires is simulated by the automatic fire recovery. The repair is a magic button that extinguishes fires and makes you immune for a period. And knocked out rudder and engine going back to 100% at all during battle is just as realistic as Radar going through solid rock.

 

The reality is that you just don't want a game where rudder damage makes you go in circles for the rest of the match. You don't want a game where Radar is on all the time. And I'm pretty sure you don't want to have a realistic limit on how many torpedoes your Fletcher can launch during a single battle. You're just like these bad BB captains that come here to complain about realism of various things while conveniently overlooking any and all the breaks from reality that work in their favor.

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holy cow eliastion, this is not a pissing contest. Your clan name fits by the way. let me put it in as simple a way as possible.  In a game where all kinds of shortcuts and workarounds are made to provide some measure of balance between ship classes and to make the game last more than 30 seconds for each player, the ability to see through a mountain is just plain *edited*dumb.  There. that's about it.  It's dumb.

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Alle 6/29/2018 alle 20:02, Felixshoen ha scritto:

holy cow eliastion, this is not a pissing contest. Your clan name fits by the way. let me put it in as simple a way as possible.  In a game where all kinds of shortcuts and workarounds are made to provide some measure of balance between ship classes and to make the game last more than 30 seconds for each player, the ability to see through a mountain is just plain *edited* dumb.  There. that's about it.  It's dumb.

And they got radar in the game to keep DDs in check.  

I could also say that the rpf skill is equally dumb. Or DefAA. 

But all were added for game balance.

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Alle 6/29/2018 alle 20:02, Felixshoen ha scritto:

holy cow eliastion, this is not a pissing contest. Your clan name fits by the way. let me put it in as simple a way as possible.  In a game where all kinds of shortcuts and workarounds are made to provide some measure of balance between ship classes and to make the game last more than 30 seconds for each player, the ability to see through a mountain is just plain *edited*dumb.  There. that's about it.  It's dumb.

 

You have just had it spelled out to you that the "realism" argument is total horseshit, you doubled down on it by weaving some fantasy about crews that you give orders to in your head, so it was then explained to you further how the realism nonsense is just that, nonsense, that you assign arbitrary value to when it suits you, and hand wave away when it doesn't. In short, as soon as anyone cites realism as a basis for argument in WOWs the argument isn't worth having, sure spell out why you don't like the gameplay, but leave realism out of it.

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1 hour ago, eliastion said:

NOBODY likes 10 DD games.

I do. Both in cruisers and in DDs. They're more challenging (in DDs), sure, but since when has that ever been a problem for proponents of radar when it comes to DD players?

 

I'm also pretty sure Khaba likes them, but that's not really a DD.

 

Also also, radar not going through islands makes more sense. It's more intuitive. It's not strictly a realism argument anymore than saying battleships should be larger than destroyers because that makes sense.

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2 hours ago, Felixshoen said:

funny how there was not one single constructive comment after my post, not that I expected one. I know how to bait and have played DD's for years. But, until you play in a match with a fletcher versus a Moskva, donskoi, 2 new orleans, and 2 missouris on Shatter you really haven't fully experienced what a ridiculous game mechanic radar and sonar are right now.

Been there, done that.

That was before the patch. Therefore that is not new.

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6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Been there, done that.

That was before the patch. Therefore that is not new.

Iunderstand you like radars when having new radar ships.I have Donskoi but I dont like it much....I cant play it effective.Only way is that camping behind island near cap and use radar to spot dds to team.Donkoi is not bad but I am with it. I can play dd also when there is radars but I hope bbs stop whining if I dont cap in beginning...playstyle has changed.

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1 hour ago, AnotherDuck said:

I do. Both in cruisers and in DDs. They're more challenging (in DDs), sure, but since when has that ever been a problem for proponents of radar when it comes to DD players?

 

I'm also pretty sure Khaba likes them, but that's not really a DD.

(...)

Ok. NOBODY but AnotherDuck (and perhaps a couple other freaks) likes 10 DD games :Smile_trollface:

 

But more seriously - even you call them "more challenging" at least in DDs. And I wasn't saying that it's fun to have plenty Radars on the opposing team - OP, however, asked how often we see 5 DD/side matches now - as if scarcity of these was a problem. Also, I must agree with one clear exception here - Khaba. But this is a special case. Khaba is a cruiser with DD MM. This makes it tough in games with few DDs because in 5DD vs 5DD it's better to have 4DD+Khaba vs 5 DD. In a 2DD vs 2DD game, however, having a Khaba means that your team has only one real DD... And this is a bit of a disadvantage.

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4 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Ok. NOBODY but AnotherDuck (and perhaps a couple other freaks) likes 10 DD games :Smile_trollface:

 

But more seriously - even you call them "more challenging" at least in DDs. And I wasn't saying that it's fun to have plenty Radars on the opposing team - OP, however, asked how often we see 5 DD/side matches now - as if scarcity of these was a problem. Also, I must agree with one clear exception here - Khaba. But this is a special case. Khaba is a cruiser with DD MM. This makes it tough in games with few DDs because in 5DD vs 5DD it's better to have 4DD+Khaba vs 5 DD. In a 2DD vs 2DD game, however, having a Khaba means that your team has only one real DD... And this is a bit of a disadvantage.

And if those two are Khaba and Akizuki and there 4 radars in team...

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Alle 6/29/2018 alle 22:05, evp66 ha scritto:

And if those two are Khaba and Akizuki and there 4 radars in team...

Why would Akizuki be a problem, though? Not to mention that if you're going to have a Khaba in a match with 2 DDs per side, you're actually better off if the match is full of Radars. Khaba doesn't give a *edited* about Radars and enemy DDs will find it harder to get the caps even without your DDs being able to contest them.

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I tend to agree that radar has become more of an issue over the last month. I don't care what WG stats say I'm seeing more radar ships in battle recently. BUT, it's a phase and will reduce back to normal once the yank CL grind is done. Fletcher is still a fine ship in the current meta but you just need to play a bit smarter and also hope you've got a team that will back you up more. Capping in DDs has become a game of patience, no longer can you charge in and hope to grab a sneaky cap or 1 on 1 another DD. Go nowhere without support, always have an exit strategy and be the good scout you're designed to be. Basically the higher radar meta will force DDs to play the way they should be, or die early.

 

However, I'm reckoning 70%+ will not adapt and either just give up, probably after whining on the forum.

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8 hours ago, Felixshoen said:

funny how there was not one single constructive comment after my post, not that I expected one.


That's because the only think you would find constructive is people supporting your echo chamber

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Getting really tired of this bollockery. How many times we have to teach you people? 

Learn.

Adapt.

Overcome.

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