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Rusty_9

Playing Low-tier US BB's (New York in particular)

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Not sure whether to post this here or in the Ship>BB section but... here goes.

 

I'm starting my first serious attempt at working up a BB line, and going US (hoping for a tanky playstyle but not KM). After a shaky start, I got to quite enjoy the Wyoming - I tend to be fairly aggressive and basically solely use AP. Stats look like this:

wyoming.thumb.PNG.93cd562a14ee3998e53712570fbae239.PNG

 

and a 'decent' game:

 

 

Now, I'm stuck with the inability to get any decent results with the New York. I know it's only 12 games (all with stock hull, most with upgraded propulsion, same captain as Wyoming) but this is it...

5b34fb96b215e_NewYork.thumb.PNG.d7a9d1f845667ca63d007e83ce4aa012.PNG

 

And an example of my poor performance...

 

 

Looking through MX stat, there seems to be an inverse proportion on damage dealt vs potential damage sustained... which to me suggests I am too aggressive? Most extreme cases are about 1.7m PD and 12k dmg vs. 600k PD and 50k dmg! Any suggestions on how to play the NY to it's strengths? I have a loathing for joining lemming trains which means I subconsciously tend to go too much the opposite extreme... solo yolo! What is my optimal engaging distance, and are there any battlefield positions/actions to avoid like the plague?

 

Thanks in advance for the advice :Smile_honoring:

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[CATS]
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  • many BB are bad stock
  • NY is slow and stock even slower
  • positioning is key and that is not learned quickly
  • you have to read the battle and know where to go to bring your guns into action without getting shot to pieces by superior numbers
  • optimal distance is 13-14km at the start and less later in the battle (when you have better control over which enemies you face and from what direction)
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1 hour ago, Rusty_9 said:

Not sure whether to post this here or in the Ship>BB section but... here goes.

 

I'm starting my first serious attempt at working up a BB line, and going US (hoping for a tanky playstyle but not KM). After a shaky start, I got to quite enjoy the Wyoming - I tend to be fairly aggressive and basically solely use AP. Stats look like this:

wyoming.thumb.PNG.93cd562a14ee3998e53712570fbae239.PNG

 

and a 'decent' game:

 

 

Now, I'm stuck with the inability to get any decent results with the New York. I know it's only 12 games (all with stock hull, most with upgraded propulsion, same captain as Wyoming) but this is it...

5b34fb96b215e_NewYork.thumb.PNG.d7a9d1f845667ca63d007e83ce4aa012.PNG

 

And an example of my poor performance...

 

 

Looking through MX stat, there seems to be an inverse proportion on damage dealt vs potential damage sustained... which to me suggests I am too aggressive? Most extreme cases are about 1.7m PD and 12k dmg vs. 600k PD and 50k dmg! Any suggestions on how to play the NY to it's strengths? I have a loathing for joining lemming trains which means I subconsciously tend to go too much the opposite extreme... solo yolo! What is my optimal engaging distance, and are there any battlefield positions/actions to avoid like the plague?

 

Thanks in advance for the advice :Smile_honoring:

Hi.

 

I've played NY and played Texas (very similar to NY) extensively. I watched your replay/youtube vid and will comment on a few simple things that I do differently.

I'm not THE best BB player ever and my way of playing may not be the best, but I believe they are at least better and could solve a couple things. I'd say give them a try! :Smile_great:

 

At spawn I see you basically going almost straight to the middle, turning your turrets to the left while going to the north-west. What I would do differently is at the start make a choice. Either I go left side of the map or I go right.

If I were to go left, I'd pre-aim my turrets to my right side of the hull (so I'd be going left and have my turrets aim towards the top of the map).

Especially at 3:40 I can see you have a difficult time to aim all your guns at a target, while the island (though giving you cover from the right side) blocks your shots to your right side.

 

Partially due to you wanting to aim at the red ships at the 4:00 mark, you end up sailing towards the middle of the map, get spotted and focussed.

 

The NY is a ssssllllooooooowwwww ship and basically you tried to get out of that bad spot, but were too slow to react fast enough (or the ship is too slow).

 

So basically this: At the start, turn in one direction and support there. And pre-aim your guns to the other side (so if your ship turns left, you turn your guns to the right. If your ship goes to the right, turn your guns to the left). This isn't set in stone but I believe this kinda-rule will help you improve till you get a bit better and know when to deviate from this 'rule' of mine.

 

And another tip: If you want to look around, press the (I think it was?) right mouse buutton so you have the free camera look. This way your turrets continu aiming towards one difection while you can look at the other direction.

 

I hope this helps :Smile_Default:

 

Btw, your aiming seems to be pretty good at first glance when looking at your Wyoming vid.

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To be honest, I didn't enjoy New York at all and was unable to make it perform. I think it's due to the end of the protected MM without noticeable improvement in the ship's performance. Being still only slightly faster than a rowboat forces you to plan from the very start where you go and specially when to run away. I agree with ColonelPete about the optimal distances of engagement. Even if you don't want to join the lemmings don't go to the exact opposite, try to group with another couple of ships that are heading to a nearby cap and be their second-line support.

 

As in your case, Wyoming was (or, better said, is: I still have her although haven't played with in a while) a very nice ship. She was my second ship to score 7 kills in a battle... and it ended in a draw, the third one I've been in.

 

Salute.

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[BUSHI]
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9 hours ago, Rusty_9 said:

Now, I'm stuck with the inability to get any decent results with the New York. I know it's only 12 games (all with stock hull, most with upgraded propulsion, same captain as Wyoming) but this is it...

5b34fb96b215e_NewYork.thumb.PNG.d7a9d1f845667ca63d007e83ce4aa012.PNG

 

Looking through MX stat, there seems to be an inverse proportion on damage dealt vs potential damage sustained... which to me suggests I am too aggressive?

You can't just go near center at the game start, park and hope to survive long. Any ship can't do that facing so much enemies. Even playing Yamato, you would be burned and torped to death in this time and position.

 

Just play constantly in manuveur like Wyoming, show only broadside when firing, then angle to enemy ships and you will be good. Bear in mind too, that with every tier game is different and harder, no matter a ship.

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[W-C]
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Thanks for the feedback folks - will adjust accordingly. Positioning is obviously the key issue to address... basically, go to a flank first (turning guns accordingly, use right mouse button to free-look), constantly manoeuvre and then push in to middle as the ship count reduces etc. Try to read the battle and plan escape routes to recover if necessary, and try to remain with a couple of other friendlies for mutual support.

 

Cool, ok... that gives me some more to work on, thanks again all :cap_like:

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One of the most important lessons to learn is positioning and map awareness. Make your minimap bigger by using +/- and use ship names on minimap. Good players look on the minimap every few seconds. This will give you information about who is where on the map. Does the enemy team have a DD? where is he? was he spotted on the other side of the map or close to you? As a BB player you want to position you self so that you can support 2 caps. Don't snipe from max range, you wont help your team that way. Learn to angle.Don't go around big islands on the flank, that's waste of time for a BB and you never know what ship might pop up around the corner.

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I love the NY. I'd have never gone that close though. I also would never have gone backwards - here's how:

If you have the NY on speed (well... speed...LOL), jam the rudder using Q-key. Then slow down.

The NY can turn on a dime. When rudder is full mvong, slam the throttle. After the turn, leave the scene while firing backwards.

And, when you press Q, that is when you also start turning the guns. So they will face the enemy again hen you go in your 'new direction'.

 

I never go rearward in the NY unless I smack into an island.

And I use the whole ship to get the guns turning is must be. 

I have many destroyer-kills in it, it is also good at dodging torps.

And after you doidge them, just keep turning so you can give them heaps. 

 

You can use CTRL+mouse to look ariound while the guns turn to their new aiming point.

IMO your aim is also a bit off on the cruisers, aim lower at the waterline. 

 

What I usually do is steem 1/4 power straight ahead, and check where the DDs go. 

Then I decide on a direction, turn the guns towards the enemy and go sideways. 

They will need to cap --> there is no need to go closer than 10km to the cap. 

You can wreck anything from that distance. 

 

So I never go straight forward, if I need to advance I will do it at an angle, keeping the guns aimed.

Also I never go in a parallel line to the caps. Lots of cruisers and BBs do that.

If you are a good shot you can DELETE a cruiser. Wait until they are detected, hope for a 'parallel sailing idiot' and aim well.

DD's in the cap will detect cruisers at ~ 10k, so mostly they are in reach.

 

If you are lucky you get one, that thinks he is parked safely behind a rock (not moving).

Shoot with AP, and it is probably DELETED. DD's can be shot at too (seen you do it in the Wyoming, too bad you missed).

AP, AP, AP, AP. You can delete DDs with AP too, if you manage to shoot them from the front or the rear or long-distance plunge fire (not the side).

But usually I go boom-boom-boom instead of the salvo at DDs. And, if they get CLOSE is when I use HE. 

 

 

Also, when you are in such a situation, NEVER shoot HE. There's three of them, and one of them at least will show lots of side.

Try to farm as much damage as you can - they will get you anyway as you are too slow to escape.

With some luck you might even survive, or kill two. 

- Keep angling - they sure will show more broadside than you!

- Let them use HE- of you have 3 fires, it cannot get worse... 

- If NONE show broadside, AP works fine going boom-boom single shot, aim for the lower part of the superstructure.

NY has great penetration, I've shot cirtadels from the front, de certainly to cruisers. But do not use salve, use 'singles' and aim well. 

 

 

BTW And its not ALL your fault:

- You were quite unlucky, usually a DD or CL shows up, and while you distract those three he will take out one or two with torps.

- Tier 5 gets 'max 2 tiers up' so you may face T7. And they are good, and have better ships. 

- Your teammates were stupid, they should have nailed those ships that were severely distracted by you

Man I can't remember when I was in a cruiser (I play RN and US) passed up on an occasion to such a party.

 

But, there's the thing - there weren't any CLs near...  (and they didn't come quickly either... tsss tsss tsss...!)

Where were the DDs? One returned from C, and A was capped by the enemy. Surely they had something useful to do now?

Stay behind the CLs... or AT LEAST behind the DDs... shouldn't be much trouble, you can't keep up anyway (LOL). 

 

BUT... since you were there... 

I'd have just gone in like a madman in your situation though. Sure I'd have been killed, too, most likely. But I'd have taken one with me. 

Point is, when you sail straight into them they panic. First, you could go 'ramming speed' (I suggest enter that in the chat - 'To All').

Then, when you are BETWEEN them they run the risk of hitting their friends. Usually they do, crashing into eachother too (now where are those CLs/DDs, torpfood are standing still!). 

When you keep the distance you form a better target. Sometimes when you are up close they annot rotate their guns fast enough to follow... 

 

But I never use WASD. Instead I use WQSE, it steers pretty quickly ('handbrake turn'). No cruiser can get near it, as you can turn it quickly (and turn the guns too).

Once you have fully spaded her, she is a great ship. I'd rather use that than the New Mexico or Arizona for operations.

BUT you must try get a T6 --> in operations you can get a 10 point US captain, and he'll do great on the New York. 

 

The NY is great, just do not see it as a ship. Look at it as a floating, dancing, twisting gun platform.

Keep 5km behind CLs and > 7km behind the DDs. Your guns can cover the cap. And kill CLs that try to protect the enemy DDs.

Also, you have a lot of guns. If there is a DD sitting in a smoke cloud, pepper it with HE if you have nothing better to do. 

The 'First Blood' trophy could be yours. I have plastered my walls with those, from CLs following the DDs and getting detected by our DD. 

 

If you like battlesships you are going to love the New York, I'm keeping mine and playing it regularly. 

Sure I like my New Mexico, the Arizona and the Queen Liz, but I like the old NY better!

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[GRKEN]
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USN BBs aren't overal good at tanking being overall basically the least protected per tier until T8:

All or nothing armor scheme sacrificing less critical areas for thicker citadel (+turret) armor doesn't work in this game.

Because of range compression (for gameplay) and no real long range battle, there's no invulnerability zone and you'll eat citadel hits (unlike some others BBs) if you don't keep armor angled against big guns.

 

While that tinfoil skin takes lots of normal/non-citadel penetration damage.

New York literally takes damage from every single incoming HE shell missing turrets or waterline citadel protection!

And that thin skin gets overmatched by any BB AP, or fails to stop APs without heavy angling.

Even supposedly badly armored Kongo has mid ship deck and side plating proof against lots of HEs and able to autobounce or block lots of APs when angled.

(152mm upper belt and 38mm deck)

Heck, even Furutaka's angled mid ship is stronger with 25mm upper belt 48mm deck plating.

 

At T6 USN BBs get 25mm plating which can block most HEs up to 152mm.

But if destroyer has IFHE skill those HEs will again penetrate it.

And German light cruisers with 1/4th of caliber HE pen penetrate it anyway.

Also that flimsy 25mm side makes excellent target for any caliber AP spam unless angled.

While 380mm+ BB APs overmatch anything but belt/turret armor.

 

So don't go to open central position where you'll get focused by many enemies, unless those enemies are at low hp and can be taken down fast by you or your team mates.

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