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Worcester

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1000 natical miles from my computer, any first impressions on Worcester so far after the update? Looking forward for this ship. Must be fun, but challenging, even more than Des Mones. Its like Mino without smoke, but better AA and HE

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On 6/28/2018 at 9:11 PM, roccaraso said:

Essentially a tier X atlanta without torps

Thought so, good news I do well in Atlanta, I have to adopt her play style for starter then.

 

 

Back in port, rigged her with full AA build, first game luckly with CV, 60 planes down, good start :-D

This ship is an AA monster!

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[DPT]
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Honestly, not sure what I should think of this ship.

 

It is fun but unlike Atlanta it is actually pretty strong.  

Just like Minotaur, but with more raw dmg you can dish out thanks to IFHE and at TX those fires sure make a lot of dmg.

 

I do have a very strong feeling however that Worcester will be nerfed. 

The damage this thing does is unrivaled by all the other TX I have in port.

 

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[GRKEN]
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So far, 2 battles, didn't fare well for me.  First one was due to a bad team and second I probably overextended and got wrecked by snipping bbs at 18km.  We'll see..

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[EHVA]
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How did you guys grind the Seattle? I just bought it and find it horrible, even with the B hull. I don't get Wargaming. This ship is far worse than the Cleveland.

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Cleveland was objectively OP at her tier, so a big difference in effectiveness is to be expected.

 

I'm not going back to grind her but have met her in a few battles and she's probably on a par with 'new' Pensacola at tier 6. Still a threat to DDs with hydro and those 152s

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1 hour ago, Mr_Tayto said:

Cleveland was objectively OP at her tier,

 

How so?  By what objective measure was she OP?

  • Win rate 50.68% over all time, close to Aoba, well behind Buddy/Leander?
  • Average damage 28k over all time, again close to Aoba and well behind the other two mentioned?

 

Also bear in mind that the all time data includes battles before the BFT/AFT changes and other nerfs to her.

 

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22 hours ago, Capra76 said:

 

How so?  By what objective measure was she OP?

  • Win rate 50.68% over all time, close to Aoba, well behind Buddy/Leander?
  • Average damage 28k over all time, again close to Aoba and well behind the other two mentioned?

 

Also bear in mind that the all time data includes battles before the BFT/AFT changes and other nerfs to her.

 

Just looked back at my post and realised the second paragraph was talking about the new tier six, so ignore that as it wasnt relevant to the thread.

 

Cleveland, in experienced hands, was a much better tier 6 than almost any of the others (Leander was pretty good). 12 guns, with IFHE, would mince everything in the tier spread. She could tank a bit and had the best AA by miles.

 

 

I qualified this "in experienced hands" because tier six is still full of relative newbs doing short grinds before they reach high tiers. This might explain low stats, but it was perfectly capable of mixing it and doing great damage as a bottom tier ship, and being a CVs worst nightmare.

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Also, one mustn't forget that Celevelnad was nerfed multiple times both directly and indirectly between CBT and split, because she could just rip the opposition up mercilessly.

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4 hours ago, piritskenyer said:

Also, one mustn't forget that Celevelnad was nerfed multiple times both directly and indirectly between CBT and split, because she could just rip the opposition up mercilessly.

Didn't she begin life in WoWs with a wierd citadel? I don't remember back then, but somebody else on the forms eluded to it. But yeah, Cleveland made La Galissoniere look slightly bad (or at least average) in comparison (sure she has torps, but they aren't a redeeming factor), and Leander could only compete due to the smoke screen. Twelve 6" guns in turrets on a cruiser is pretty much T VII or T VIII material every day of the week, so a T VI with extra guns compared to the opposition isn't great. Also, that AA... Trumped ships like Pensacola, La Gal, Algerie, and pretty much every cruiser up to (the old) T VIII or even T IX. With how much fun CV's have against DFAA at the best of times, the old Cleveland would only act to cull an already small playerbase, I imagine.

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8 minutes ago, Centurion_1711 said:

Didn't she begin life in WoWs with a wierd citadel? I don't remember back then, but somebody else on the forms eluded to it. But yeah, Cleveland made La Galissoniere look slightly bad (or at least average) in comparison (sure she has torps, but they aren't a redeeming factor), and Leander could only compete due to the smoke screen. Twelve 6" guns in turrets on a cruiser is pretty much T VII or T VIII material every day of the week, so a T VI with extra guns compared to the opposition isn't great. Also, that AA... Trumped ships like Pensacola, La Gal, Algerie, and pretty much every cruiser up to (the old) T VIII or even T IX. With how much fun CV's have against DFAA at the best of times, the old Cleveland would only act to cull an already small playerbase, I imagine.

You mean this? The whack a mole citadel version. And even after they reworked citadel it still had a damage potential that put other tier 6 cruisers to shame. Not to mention the AA. I think the only reason why it had merely average stats is simply because the massive amount of games played, and because let's be fair in order to unlock OP Cleveland you need map knowledge and awarness. 2 things that this playerbase lacks in drowes.
 

Spoiler

aed288fcf7.jpg

Back on topic, I kind of want the Worcester, but at the same time I'm looking at the Seattle, reading the comments, watching the vids and I don't get a nice feeling about it. So far the tier 8 Cleveland is pretty strong and has a bit of an utility overload at the moment so ofcourse it is fun to play. Getting a ship with worse range, not a huge firepower leap and sacrificing gun angles in exchange for a heal and the 3 million module sounds scarily like the Ibuki (well, apart from the range but you get the general point), a ship I really did not like.

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22 hours ago, ollonborre said:

You mean this? The whack a mole citadel version. And even after they reworked citadel it still had a damage potential that put other tier 6 cruisers to shame. Not to mention the AA. I think the only reason why it had merely average stats is simply because the massive amount of games played, and because let's be fair in order to unlock OP Cleveland you need map knowledge and awarness. 2 things that this playerbase lacks in drowes.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

aed288fcf7.jpg

Back on topic, I kind of want the Worcester, but at the same time I'm looking at the Seattle, reading the comments, watching the vids and I don't get a nice feeling about it. So far the tier 8 Cleveland is pretty strong and has a bit of an utility overload at the moment so ofcourse it is fun to play. Getting a ship with worse range, not a huge firepower leap and sacrificing gun angles in exchange for a heal and the 3 million module sounds scarily like the Ibuki (well, apart from the range but you get the general point), a ship I really did not like.

I freexp'ed past the Seattle. It was not the gunrange, but more the layout of the guns and the handling of this vessel, that discouraged me to play it. 

Now I am with the Worchester, I am not so sure if this is a keeper. This vessel is definitely not OP, it is very situational. Meaning, hanging behind an island and hoping for anything to come in range. Sure, it has is nice AA, hydro and radar. But that makes it a utility vessel instead of a high damage dealer (which you kinda need on tier X). Also TTK is very high. But maybe I should give it more time.
The Des Moines is still the better vessel on the USN cruiserbranche. Especially if you kite and make smart use of cover. And I am not talking about camping behind a rock (see Yuro's latest vid; 

 )

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On 05/07/2018 at 6:45 PM, LeSnoet said:

Now I am with the Worchester, I am not so sure if this is a keeper. This vessel is definitely not OP, it is very situational. Meaning, hanging behind an island and hoping for anything to come in range. Sure, it has is nice AA, hydro and radar. But that makes it a utility vessel instead of a high damage dealer (which you kinda need on tier X). Also TTK is very high. But maybe I should give it more time.
The Des Moines is still the better vessel on the USN cruiserbranche. Especially if you kite and make smart use of cover. And I am not talking about camping behind a rock (see Yuro's latest vid; 

Please, Yuro vid is a big, huge troll. Don't takes it seriously. Radar is a far superior module, if you need plane and range it means you need to work on your positioning. --'

 

And Worcester is a high DPM damage dealer. Again, you need to have both good map awareness and good map knowledge. But this DPM is impressive provided you get to the right place at the right time. It's actually easier to score with Worsauce than with DM thanks to the longer base range.

 

Again, Worcester is a tier 10 Atlanta. Play it right and you get an hilarious ship with incredible effectiveness.

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49 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Please, Yuro vid is a big, huge troll. Don't takes it seriously. Radar is a far superior module, if you need plane and range it means you need to work on your positioning. --'

 

And Worcester is a high DPM damage dealer. Again, you need to have both good map awareness and good map knowledge. But this DPM is impressive provided you get to the right place at the right time. It's actually easier to score with Worsauce than with DM thanks to the longer base range.

 

Again, Worcester is a tier 10 Atlanta. Play it right and you get an hilarious ship with incredible effectiveness.

 

My problem with radar is that most people don't know how to use it properly. There are some players who are going to rush forward because "muh radr" and will get deleted in 30 seconds, then there are people who are never going to go anywhere near close enough to use the radar and they will just spam at mid-high range. There only a few people who are tactically sound enough to know how to properly hug a rock and deny capping via radar or who know how to hang back without being useless. In that sense I don't feel radar is *far* superior. 

 

The troll build is actually not as troll as one might first think. It sure depends on positioning just as much as a radar area-denial build, but it is useful in another way. It is undoubtedly a much more selfish build, but if you have twin spotters and an aircraft mod installed, you have a greater spotted area for longer AND there is some fairness in it for the DD as he can at least try to hide (although I know, we don't favour fair fights). 

 

I know that I'm going to try out the spotter build on the Des Memes, I have tried it out on the Buffalo and it worked pretty well (ignore my Buffalo stats those were two games after release where I was the first spotted :| ). 

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2 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

Please, Yuro vid is a big, huge troll. Don't takes it seriously. Radar is a far superior module, if you need plane and range it means you need to work on your positioning. --'

 

And Worcester is a high DPM damage dealer. Again, you need to have both good map awareness and good map knowledge. But this DPM is impressive provided you get to the right place at the right time. It's actually easier to score with Worsauce than with DM thanks to the longer base range.

 

Again, Worcester is a tier 10 Atlanta. Play it right and you get an hilarious ship with incredible effectiveness.

I am using radar on the Des Moines. I really hate shooting with a spotter plane. Therefore I am not taking everything from Yuro for granted :Smile_sceptic:

But what he says about using the superior dpm of the Des Moines is true, and that hugging an island bowfront is not really contributing. Since I have adopted more or less that tactic my average damage is much higher. But hé, everyone is free to play it the way they like.

Back to the Wooster, after a couple of more games I am starting to get the hang of it. But you do need good map awareness (read the battle) like you said. Overextending will be punished hard. 

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1 hour ago, piritskenyer said:

 

My problem with radar is that most people don't know how to use it properly. There are some players who are going to rush forward because "muh radr" and will get deleted in 30 seconds, then there are people who are never going to go anywhere near close enough to use the radar and they will just spam at mid-high range. There only a few people who are tactically sound enough to know how to properly hug a rock and deny capping via radar or who know how to hang back without being useless. In that sense I don't feel radar is *far* superior. 

 

The troll build is actually not as troll as one might first think. It sure depends on positioning just as much as a radar area-denial build, but it is useful in another way. It is undoubtedly a much more selfish build, but if you have twin spotters and an aircraft mod installed, you have a greater spotted area for longer AND there is some fairness in it for the DD as he can at least try to hide (although I know, we don't favour fair fights). 

 

I know that I'm going to try out the spotter build on the Des Memes, I have tried it out on the Buffalo and it worked pretty well (ignore my Buffalo stats those were two games after release where I was the first spotted :| ). 

I try to time it, when using radar. I only hit it when there is enough support near or in the cap (provided if the map is in domination mode). With the slot 2 module you can make it work, or at least to piss off destroyers or anything else in smoke. But smart DD players (there are not a lot of them, see the average forum rant in 'gameplay' about radar and the whining about it) tend to stay either out of radar range or wait until it dies off. 
Radar on RU vessels are also overrated imo, it works only for a very short time. 

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[JUNK]
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Wooster is a big no no for me. DM and Mino fills the roles you would use Wooster for, but much better.

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On 11/07/2018 at 3:41 PM, Affeks said:

Wooster is a big no no for me. DM and Mino fills the roles you would use Wooster for, but much better.

Nah.

Wooster damage potential is league higher than DM. It's a Kutuzov on steroid basically. Mino is nice and all, but you get almost the same rof, with HE.

DM is great for its heavy AP and good armor, but Worcester doesn't fill the same niche at all. You melt a BB far quicker than with any other CA.

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11 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Nah.

Wooster damage potential is league higher than DM. It's a Kutuzov on steroid basically. Mino is nice and all, but you get almost the same rof, with HE.

DM is great for its heavy AP and good armor, but Worcester doesn't fill the same niche at all. You melt a BB far quicker than with any other CA.

Melting BBs is a bad strength tho. It only means you take them down a little faster, but BBs will still take a lot of time... All the while you give up all the tools that Mino and DM has. DM heavily threaten cruiser crossfires. Mino has a much better engine, better concealment and torps as an added alpha threat. If crap hits the fan Wooster has no alpha threats (strong AP/torps) to instantly punish someone not to mention terrible turret layout.

 

It is mix of both above yet none of the traits that make them competitive/club hard in randoms. I guess its a sort of dakadaka clubber, i love to play Atlanta, but that also has much to do with periodical abundance of CVs in low tier.

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11 minutes ago, Affeks said:

Melting BBs is a bad strength tho. It only means you take them down a little faster, but BBs will still take a lot of time... All the while you give up all the tools that Mino and DM has. DM heavily threaten cruiser crossfires. Mino has a much better engine, better concealment and torps as an added alpha threat. If crap hits the fan Wooster has no alpha threats (strong AP/torps) to instantly punish someone not to mention terrible turret layout.

 

It is mix of both above yet none of the traits that make them competitive/club hard in randoms. I guess its a sort of dakadaka clubber, i love to play Atlanta, but that also has much to do with periodical abundance of CVs in low tier.

I talked about melting BBs because that's its main strenght, but its HE output surpasses the DM on cruiser by a mile too. Its only real weakness is the lack of AP over 7km.

Also, that's not exactly true for the engine. With engine mod, not only does Worcester reacts quite quickly, but even like that you still have better ruddershift than Minotaur by a large margin.

And it's somewhat able to kite too.

 

It's a ship between Minotaur and DM. Incredible damage output, full of useful tools and not that squishy. It's real weakness is that you can rush it because it doesn't have torpedoes.

 

Honestly dismissing it as "useless besides random" is not fair for the ship. It won't works very good in Hurricane League, for sure. But besides the top clan, you can pretty much fit in any composition without handicaping your whole team.

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12 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

I talked about melting BBs because that's its main strenght, but its HE output surpasses the DM on cruiser by a mile too. Its only real weakness is the lack of AP over 7km.

And turret layout.

 

13 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Also, that's not exactly true for the engine. With engine mod, not only does Worcester reacts quite quickly, but even like that you still have better ruddershift than Minotaur by a large margin.

No it doesnt. RN upgraded engine works differently from a normal propulsion boost. Just test this by doing a full rudder turn at full speed. Minotaur will only lose some speed then accel back to full speed (or very close), but any cruiser with prop mod still drops as much speed as it would without it. Even French Engine boost doesnt stop the top speed loss in turns.

 

18 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Honestly dismissing it as "useless besides random" is not fair for the ship. It won't works very good in Hurricane League, for sure. But besides the top clan, you can pretty much fit in any composition without handicaping your whole team.

To be honest I see more use for it in CB than randoms due to static and predictable positioning.

 

Still I can agree its unfair to write it off, but at least they could give US CA autobounce so it has at least some threat to rushing cruisers.

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[TORCH]
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On 6/28/2018 at 9:48 PM, Cao_de_Aqua said:

Thought so, good news I do well in Atlanta, I have to adopt her play style for starter then.

 

 

Back in port, rigged her with full AA build, first game luckly with CV, 60 planes down, good start :-D

This ship is an AA monster!

Just be more careful with positioning when you have her as she is quite a long ship compared to atlanta and ofc as been said, no torps.

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[GRKEN]
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What captain skills are you guys running? Just curious.

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Right now I'm running this :

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1000000000000010000000100010100119

 

But it's my Atlanta captain, I'm waiting to unlock Halsey to go for this instead :

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/1000000001000010000001100010000119

 

AFT is nice for destroying floatplanes the second they spots you, but I'd rather have SI for the extra heal and other consumables, since I very often use all of them (except DFAA)

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