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Cpt_wheel

Battleships in smoke

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[RN-PO]
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Hi everyone,

 

Yesterday I played with my Hood battleship. I was in the frontline in a hot situation and one of my very kind teammates made smoke around me with destroyer. I stood in the smoke and when I shooted to the 6-7 km far enemy the detecting icon (exclamation mark) pop up and I was seeing and shooting by enemy. When I stopped shooting the mark disappeared and they couldn't see me anymore. There wasn't radar or hydroacoustic icon. How could it happened?

 

Have somebody ever experienced like this?

 

Cheers

 

Remark: Sorry, I don't usually make records so you have to believe me (I wouldn't write here otherwise). Peace

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[HABIT]
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Just now, Cpt_wheel said:

Hi everyone,

 

Yesterday I played with my Hood battleship. I was in the frontline in a hot situation and one of my very kind teammates made smoke around me with destroyer. I stood in the smoke and when I shooted to the 6-7 km far enemy the detecting icon (exclamation mark) pop up and I was seeing and shooting by enemy. When I stopped shooting the mark disappeared and they couldn't see me anymore. There wasn't radar or hydroacoustic icon. How could it happen?

 

Have somebody ever experienced like this?

 

Cheers

 

Remark: Sorry, I don't usually make records so you have to believe me (I wouldn't write here otherwise). Peace

 

If you look at your ship's stats in the port or during the battle, you will see that it has a visible for being in smoke after firing its main guns. This was introduced some patches ago when the smoke mechanic was reworked and should prevent exactely what you did (intentionally or not): BBs camping in smoke and shooting at targets. So nothing wrong here.

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[ONE2]
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@Cpt_wheelDude, that is the game mechanics working, as intended. Just like you noticed yourself, Battleships cannot shoot from stealth while in smoke. You can only use the smoke to get away, if in a difficult situation but the moment you fire, you will be spotted again.:cap_old:

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Smoke works by blocking LoS. If a ship is inside a smoke screen or have a smoke screen between it and all possible spotters, it can remain undetected even when there are enemy spotters within its detectability range. For air detection, smoke is considered as being at the same height as flying aircraft, therefore a catapult launched aircraft needs to be close to or over the smoke screen in order to detect any ships hiding beyond it. However, an aircraft can not detect a ship that is inside the smoke screen itself even if the aircraft is flying directly over the ship. If you fire your main battery then your detection radius will "bloom" outwards to a certain amount depending on your ship and if an enemy ship is present within that range then you shall be detected regardless of whether you are within or behind the smoke. Hence smoke is not a cloaking device.

 

Source

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1 minute ago, BurningPoop said:

if an enemy ship is present within that range then you shall be detected regardless of whether you are within or behind the smoke. Hence smoke is not a cloaking device.

AFAIK if you are behind the smoke, the LoS is still blocked. You will only be seen if you are in the smoke.

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[KAKE]
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They made some changes to detection of ships firing while in (or behind) smoke a while back. And after that it's generally little point to smoke up a BB. The exception is a teammate who is under fire and trying to escape (as long as said teammate is smart enough to hold their fire).  

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18 minutes ago, Hades_warrior said:

Mostly I think its waste of smoke when DD throw me a smoke and im not under fire.

It can be situationally useful, but it no longer is the silly abusable mechanic it once was. It still is useful for BBs if they need to withdraw, for cloaking advances and, funnily enough, secondary-specced ships can stay in smoke with little to fear, while secondaries go to work on things in range. This can be brutal in high tiers, as a smoked up BB can have over 11 km range on secondaries and happily spam that out of the smoke. Obviously, smokes are still torp magnets and with a BB inside, even more so.

 

Anyway, yes, smoke only reduces detection range. Without firing, you are only spotted at guaranteed detection range (usually 2 km), but every ship has a value of detection while firing in smoke that can be viewed in port when hovering over detection range or in battle when pressing "H". It should be noted that this not only applies to BBs, but also to cruisers and DDs and while it is most remarkable for BBs (which typically lose all advantages of smoke screen when firing, for cruisers it can still be quite high, with some cruisers like Kutuzov having over 7 km smoke detectability when firing, meaning the enemy might be able to rush your smoke and blap you at a comfortable range. For DDs, this mostly matters at knife fights, where shooting raises detectability slightly over 2 km and may spoil the defensive torp attack at 2 km against rushing ships, though for German DDs with 15 cm guns, the smoke penalty might matter a bit more when you fight with your hydro in a smoke cloud.

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[XTREM]
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If a DD throws some smoke around me when I'm in my Yammy Pammy then I always say thank you even if it doesn't make much difference.  It is an act of kindness and teamplay and should be encouraged.  I've found it most useful as a screen to turn and run and heal.  If people keep firing from behind the screen and being detected then that's their business.  

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Yes, the smoke and detection rework meant that you can't use it as offensively as before by getting your BBs closer. I still lay a screen for cap approaches occasionally when playing DDs, but those are mainly intended for two things: conceal close supporting CAs, particularily those with radar (and I ask beforehand about their bloom in smoke since I don't have that many of them nor play them regularly); and temporarily hide mid-range supporting BBs, offering them the chance for shooting first before being spotted.

 

Right now, apart from for my own use and the aforementioned one, disengaging smokes for focused team-mates is the main usage that consumable has. The problem is that, in a similar fashion to what happened to OP, people either don't know about the change in mechanics or don't care: you get ready to lay the screen for them, even telling them in advance, and they neither slow down nor hold fire. It's a pure blessing when you find someone able to read such actions and act accordingly, specially when not even typing a single line due to haste.

 

Salute.

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[NED]
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Hold H to see your current shipstats this includes detection ranges and other usefull stats like your current AA values after being hit by HE shells.

 

 

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[BABBY]
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6 hours ago, Tungstonid said:

AFAIK if you are behind the smoke, the LoS is still blocked. You will only be seen if you are in the smoke.

Watch out for planes though; they can see something behind smoke like they can islands.

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[SCRUB]
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Its a saboteur on your ship signaling the enemy your position

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[ALONE]
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5 hours ago, Up_The_Donald said:

If a DD throws some smoke around me when I'm in my Yammy Pammy then I always say thank you even if it doesn't make much difference.  It is an act of kindness and teamplay and should be encouraged. 

 

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[PARAZ]
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Lost a game today because 2 T10 BBs tried hiding in smoke with a Minotaur.

Minotaur actually got killed by fire directed at the two BBs.

Then they got torped to death.

 

I had to resist the urge to quit the match right then and there.

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[RN-PO]
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Well, thanks for everyone for the reactions and answers. I found the datas. (Hood more than 14 km) I see the problem. So if you are in a smoke where the enemy cannot see into it but they have locator ears and if you make noise (fe.: cannon shot) they can recognise your exact position inside the smoke and start to see inside the smoke. A miracle happens. Crystal clear. Thanks. Bye

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[BOBS3]
[BOBS3]
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To be fair to @Cpt_wheel there are still a lot of videos showing Battleships or Heavy Cruisers being smoked up; Jingles in particular was very keen on the teamplay of Destroyers laying smoke for other ships to sail directly into or laying smoke as a wall between those ships and the enemy. So the general advice is to look at the date of videos and whether they are old enough that something might have been changed.

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[SM0KE]
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Am I correct that BBs' secondaries don't cause a 'visible from space' bloom, when they're fired from inside/other side of smoke? Not really relevant for most, but perhaps useful to know for KM, and perhaps MA?

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14 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Am I correct that BBs' secondaries don't cause a 'visible from space' bloom, when they're fired from inside/other side of smoke? Not really relevant for most, but perhaps useful to know for KM, and perhaps MA?

That's correct, applies to all ships with secondaries, the firing from smoke mechanics applies to main guns only, as is visible in the ship stats in port and via H key.

 

@Cpt_wheel the smoke mechanics were changed some time ago specifically to stop BB's smoke camping or even pushing smoke cruisers out of their own smoke and the gun blooms mechanic has hurt smoke equipped ships much harder than it's hit BB's.

 

 

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On 28.6.2018 at 1:56 AM, El2aZeR said:

Lost a game today because 2 T10 BBs tried hiding in smoke with a Minotaur.

Minotaur actually got killed by fire directed at the two BBs.

Then they got torped to death.

 

I had to resist the urge to quit the match right then and there.

 

Hey, I didnt notice you were in the same game with me the other day! Oh no wait, this crap happens all the time...

 

Seriously, I got pushed out of my own smoke by a Missouri and I think a Bismarck the other day while in Minotaur. Needless to say I acted as a punchingball for the enemy team shooting at the BBs. Got reported by one of them cuz I told em to EFF OFF! Same day, another low Bismarck steamed right next to my Neptune in the smoke. He had 280 HP left, was beeing shelled. I managed to TK him cuz I had no option then to fire at the DD that popped up right in that moment. +1/-1 Kill. awesome. I wish for my own team RN smoke would actually be like an Island: They just fkkin beach when trying to get in.

 

34 minutes ago, Verblonde said:

Am I correct that BBs' secondaries don't cause a 'visible from space' bloom, when they're fired from inside/other side of smoke? Not really relevant for most, but perhaps useful to know for KM, and perhaps MA?

 

Thats correct.

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