Stalingrad OP

[H3ka]

Hi, my two cents about the topic. Remove the Stalingrad from the game. I've been watching Flamu's twitch-games and I think it's stupidly overpowered. 6-8k volleys casually left and right and 20k citadel hits on BB's with cruiser reload time and dispersion.

 

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Yes, we all know:

Flamu's stream = best testing environment for reliable results

[PaxMaggie]

it still shows how stupid these guns are

 

[GulvkluderGuld]

BB guns with cruiser dispersion seems beyond stupid. 

That doesnt even get into 50 mm bow plating territory.

 

19 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Yes, we all know:

Flamu's stream = best testing environment for reliable results

 

You are going to get one (I expect) so what would you think? This thing being Tier X means you can take it in Clan Wars and KotS.

I'm just a lowly 5x rank 1 player without much CW experience, but it seems to me you bring this thing to CW if able (especially since there are no CVs)

 

So will 6 vs 6 Stalingrads be fun in CW?

[El2aZeR]

Stalingrad is balanced by having one critical weakness.

Said weakness is also the currently least played class in the game by far.

 

Yes, AA is in fact a reason to either improve or shaft ship performance. Always has been. Stalingrad is forced to choose between radar and DFAA (meaning she will rarely have DFAA) along with being vulnerable to USN AP bombs, that's apparently reason enough to boost her performance to hilarious levels.

Don't like it? Well, me neither, but not much we can do about that.

[PaxMaggie]

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Stalingrad is balanced by having one critical weakness.

Said weakness is also the currently least played class in the game by far.

 

Yes, AA is in fact a reason to either improve or shaft ship performance. Always has been. Stalingrad is forced to choose between radar and DFAA (meaning she will rarely have DFAA) along with being vulnerable to USN AP bombs, that's apparently reason enough to boost her performance to hilarious levels.

Don't like it? Well, me neither, but not much we can do about that.

1. CV rework and nobody know how it will be

2. even if u get a cv that wont compensate for the guns since every smart player sticks with the team in a cv match (and only the smarter ones will get her)

3. She is still compl. brocken if u dont have a cv game......and thats quite often

[ColonelPete]

35 minutes ago, Henri_Pihala said:

Hi, my two cents about the topic. Remove the Stalingrad from the game. I've been watching Flamu's twitch-games and I think it's stupidly overpowered. 6-8k volleys casually left and right and 20k citadel hits on BB's with cruiser reload time and dispersion.

 

Newsflash, she is not even in the game yet!

Wait for the final version for your complaints!

 

This advance whining is really silly.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Vor 34 Minuten, PaxMaggie sagte:

it still shows how stupid these guns are

Apparently having to angle your ship against Stalingrad (because it has only AP) makes a ship OP?

Without HE the Stalingrad is pretty ineffective against players with a brain. We don't see those often in Flamu's stream, but I don't see why stupid people showing broadside to a ship with BB guns should be the base of balancing.

[Nechrom]

BB AP with cruiser dispersion and improved auto-bounce angles. What could possibly go wrong.

[Juanx]

13 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

I don't see why stupid people showing broadside to a ship with BB guns should be the base of balancing.

 

And still, most balancing here seems done like that, odd huh?

[eliastion]

31 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Apparently having to angle your ship against Stalingrad (because it has only AP) makes a ship OP?

Without HE the Stalingrad is pretty ineffective against players with a brain. We don't see those often in Flamu's stream, but I don't see why stupid people showing broadside to a ship with BB guns should be the base of balancing.

This is a stupid thing to say. Balancing has to take into account the players. Sure, just looking at the lowest common denominator isn't the solution either, but if WG made a ship that seems to be an "I win" vessel against 99% opponents then even if the the remaining 1% was almost completely safe from her - she wouldn't be balanced.

 

I'm not even taking sides about Stalingrad specifically here - it's just the general common sense. The skill needed by a ship, the way a ship rewards skill, the way skill factors in when facing the ship - all these things are factors in balancing. And in this case - just because competitive-level players won't ever show broadside (assuming they won't) doesn't mean that a ship being much more than others effective at punishing broadsides ceases to be a balancing problem.

 

To give another example:

Pro CV players can follow-strafe when Saipan tries to strafe out of dogfight. Would you say that it doesn't matter that Saipan doesn't lose any planes when leaving dogfights?

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Vor 36 Minuten, eliastion sagte:

Balancing has to take into account the players.

Of course. And these players consist of more than the enemies in the games during Flamu's stream. I was only talking about those, as OP thought these few games were enough proof of Stalingrad being OP.

 

Vor 38 Minuten, eliastion sagte:

Pro CV players can follow-strafe when Saipan tries to strafe out of dogfight. Would you say that it doesn't matter that Saipan doesn't lose any planes when leaving dogfights?

Since I am one of those CV players, yes, I personally would say it doesn't matter

[Comodoro_Allande]

With Stalingrad the only thing WG needs to do is to correct the typo that labels the ship as a cruiser. Fixed 

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

9 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Apparently having to angle your ship against Stalingrad (because it has only AP) makes a ship OP?

 

I don't see why stupid people showing broadside to a ship with BB guns should be the base of balancing.

 

Exactly.

 

Flamu has a tendency of populist exaggeration, in order to generate attention.

Remember all that drama about the Asashio for example... 

[lafeel]

4 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

Exactly.

 

Flamu has a tendency of populist exaggeration, in order to generate attention.

Remember all that drama about Asashio for example.

Time to pull out a classic historical quote the applies here then.

 

Vox populi, vox humbug!-William T. Sherman

[anonym_VGtT7ixQxHUH]

lol Flamu ... bad player camper ppl shoud no listen to him at all .. and leave his crap twitch!

 

about the Stalingrad its a Ru game what you expect.... thay are allways have better ships *haha*

[pra3y]

2 hours ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Remember all that drama about the Asashio for example... 

 

Tbf he's actually one of the more knowledgable CCs. While I disagree with his conclusion of the Asashio and other stuff, I find him one of the more all rounded CCs in both theory crafting and practical stuff.

[Bortasqu]

While I agree that Flamu is a **** most of the time, it's not like he predicted the Belfast/Conqueror was gonna be OP or anything before they where released...

[VC381]

Isn't the 50mm bow gone and the citadel raised? So basically it has deadly railguns but will also be easily citadelled from most angles. So yeah, we don't even know the final version yet.

[Nechrom]

30 minutes ago, VC381 said:

Isn't the 50mm bow gone and the citadel raised? So basically it has deadly railguns but will also be easily citadelled from most angles. So yeah, we don't even know the final version yet.

It's still much more tanky than other cruisers and has a juicy 72k HP.

At least as durable as the Kronshtadt, which means that the survivability is more than fine. Unlike the Kron, she also has a 50mm deck/upper belt, so no BB AP overmatch or cruiser HE damage.  She's also faster than the Kron, at 35kts.

Almost 23k base gun range with cruiser dispersion, USN CA auto-bounce angles and 950m/s muzzle velocity. That's with 29 base RPM (18.5 sec base reload).

 

Edit: Right now she still has the 50mm nose pike as well. Just checked.

[Ysterpyp]

11 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Apparently having to angle your ship against Stalingrad (because it has only AP) makes a ship OP?

Without HE the Stalingrad is pretty ineffective against players with a brain. We don't see those often in Flamu's stream, but I don't see why stupid people showing broadside to a ship with BB guns should be the base of balancing.

You forget 3 things mate

 

1. ) What is the average wr of the other players you get on your team? 35-45? and you get 5 to 6 of them and what will this ship do to them? 

 

 2. ) 5 minutes into the game all the potatoes are sniped , and the unicum player is left to carry the slack . this will increase landslide losses\wins and would make playing solo on high tiers much more shait

 

3. ) This "thing" has usn autobounce angles , even if you do angle , some people would not angle enough and blap , there goes another potato.

 

 

WG not catering for the average potato is bad idea, this thing will destroy t10

[Nechrom]

11 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Stalingrad is balanced by having one critical weakness.

Said weakness is also the currently least played class in the game by far.

 

Yes, AA is in fact a reason to either improve or shaft ship performance. Always has been. Stalingrad is forced to choose between radar and DFAA (meaning she will rarely have DFAA) along with being vulnerable to USN AP bombs, that's apparently reason enough to boost her performance to hilarious levels.

Don't like it? Well, me neither, but not much we can do about that.

I don't know about that.

Sure, no DFAA hurts, but the AA is still decent. You might be thinking of the Kronshtadt's AA?

 

Stalingrad has 167dps @ 5.7km!!!, 124dps @ 3.5km and 84dps @ 3.1km.

Not amazing, but not bad either. Better than both Yamato and GK.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

31 minutes ago, Nechrom said:

It's still much more tanky than other cruisers and has a juicy 72k HP.

At least as durable as the Kronshtadt, which means that the survivability is more than fine.

 

Unlike the Kronshtadt, Stalingrad cannot disengage due to awful concealment. That is a HUGE problem survivability wise.

[Boris_MNE]

11 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Apparently having to angle your ship against Stalingrad (because it has only AP) makes a ship OP?

Without HE the Stalingrad is pretty ineffective against players with a brain. We don't see those often in Flamu's stream, but I don't see why stupid people showing broadside to a ship with BB guns should be the base of balancing.

 

 

First time I see you trolling another people :D

[VC381]

24 minutes ago, Ysterpyp said:

WG not catering for the average potato is bad idea, this thing will destroy t10

 

And realistically how many people are going to a) actually own this ship and b) play it regularly?

 

And how easily can the people capable of earning this ship and playing it well seal-club in basically anything else?

 

So how exactly will it "destroy" T10? It won't make any difference no matter how strong it is.