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T0byJug

Please Restrict Destroyers

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OK title is a little Click bait.

 

But wargaming can we restrict DDs in Ops to lets say 1 the same as CV.

 

Everyone knows Cruisers are the best for Ops and BBs are needed to tank. CV can be a great asset. But DDs can do very little in most operations. (Some DDs are an exception but..) 

 

Get a match with 2+ DD you just do not have the DPM to complete the mission

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Destroyers have the highest damage potential for most ops (flank, get really close, pop smoke and farm bots with torps, citadels and fire)

 

Limit bad players trying to torp spam from range? Or maybe just block  IJN DDs?

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Honestly, I'd rather have some Operations where DDs are the best choice, or even the only choice since they get so little use in the mode.

 

As for how DDs actually work now in Ops: they seem to work decently if the player is good, but they always feel like the suboptimal choice. Not sure about limiting them.

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While I'm not saying DD's are the worst choice to pick, the trouble with the vast majority of DD's and their players is that once a player smokes up and stops, they tend to fire their torps at max range and, as the Bots tend to head at them bow on (despite not being able to actually see them - Good Job WG) and have very good torp-beat skills against undetected torps (No really, GREAT JOB WG) the usual best case is that they get 1-2 torps hitting per salvo, which may/may not be enough to kill a cruiser before they get close enough to spot you firing in your smoke-bloom while you are torp-less and then you're focused to 1/2 health very quickly and doing that twice means you're dead.

 

I am extremely good at Co-Op DD play (4100+ PR on Wows.numbers for DD's) yet I don't really take a DD into Scenarios because of those types of reasons. The best one I can thing of is the Monaghan due to it's 30 sec TRB giving you the ability to fire 16 torps in 30 seconds and it's 15km gun range which can be very useful for spotting purposes by baiting AI ships with good concealment (10-12km) into firing as soon as they are in max firing range of you (usually 14-16km+) spotting them for the rest of your team who now have longer to shoot at them (better DPM).

 

So does all that mean you personally can't have a great DD game in Op? Nope, I'm not saying that at all, but "generally" they are the least optimal ship type to pick.

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2 hours ago, T0byJug said:

OK title is a little Click bait.

 

But wargaming can we restrict DDs in Ops to lets say 1 the same as CV.

 

Everyone knows Cruisers are the best for Ops and BBs are needed to tank. CV can be a great asset. But DDs can do very little in most operations. (Some DDs are an exception but..) 

 

Get a match with 2+ DD you just do not have the DPM to complete the mission

A single DD can be valuable. 2+ are a big liability. I would sometimes want to play a DD in operations but I just can't since the chance of getting someone in a DD as well goes through the roof...

If there was a 1DD per team limit, I could actually operate in DDs once in a while without the feeling that I'm screwing all the teammates over... the extended waiting time for DDs would be well worth it.

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1 hour ago, Runegrem said:

As for how DDs actually work now in Ops: they seem to work decently if the player is good, but they always feel like the suboptimal choice. Not sure about limiting them.

And this is kind of the main problem. The level of play in ops is in general terrible, and while a terrible cruiserplayer in an op can still do something, a terrible DD player is a liability 90% of the time. Yes there are some operatins where some DD's are very useful and some DD players can make them work in almost every operation. But the operations tend to not be designed around DD play in the first place, since aircraft are everywhere and the sheer number of ships limits torpedo boats since they just can't kill everything as fast as a cruiser can for example.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Runegrem said:

Honestly, I'd rather have some Operations where DDs are the best choice, or even the only choice since they get so little use in the mode.

Very much so. There is a fair amount of interesting setups WG could go with, even with historical ones.

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4 hours ago, T0byJug said:

OK title is a little Click bait.

what was the clickbait is that it was coming from you :cap_wander: hehe

But i get the reason that u want that because DD's are iDD very useless in scenarios.

 

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8 hours ago, creamgravy said:

Destroyers have the highest damage potential for most ops (flank, get really close, pop smoke and farm bots with torps, citadels and fire)

 

Limit bad players trying to torp spam from range? Or maybe just block  IJN DDs?

Id love some replays from you old chap... as you now i do DDs but most are tier 6 or 7 DDs are useless at ops

8 hours ago, Runegrem said:

Honestly, I'd rather have some Operations where DDs are the best choice, or even the only choice since they get so little use in the mode.

 

As for how DDs actually work now in Ops: they seem to work decently if the player is good, but they always feel like the suboptimal choice. Not sure about limiting them.

Bring back the dunkirk mission i say.. Some DD  specific OPS would be amazing

8 hours ago, IanH755 said:

While I'm not saying DD's are the worst choice to pick, the trouble with the vast majority of DD's and their players is that once a player smokes up and stops, they tend to fire their torps at max range and, as the Bots tend to head at them bow on (despite not being able to actually see them - Good Job WG) and have very good torp-beat skills against undetected torps (No really, GREAT JOB WG) the usual best case is that they get 1-2 torps hitting per salvo, which may/may not be enough to kill a cruiser before they get close enough to spot you firing in your smoke-bloom while you are torp-less and then you're focused to 1/2 health very quickly and doing that twice means you're dead.

 

I am extremely good at Co-Op DD play (4100+ PR on Wows.numbers for DD's) yet I don't really take a DD into Scenarios because of those types of reasons. The best one I can thing of is the Monaghan due to it's 30 sec TRB giving you the ability to fire 16 torps in 30 seconds and it's 15km gun range which can be very useful for spotting purposes by baiting AI ships with good concealment (10-12km) into firing as soon as they are in max firing range of you (usually 14-16km+) spotting them for the rest of your team who now have longer to shoot at them (better DPM).

 

So does all that mean you personally can't have a great DD game in Op? Nope, I'm not saying that at all, but "generally" they are the least optimal ship type to pick.

I don't have a hug problem with this.. If they did not  it would be to easy to kill the Bot players with Torpedo Cruisers 

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Most of the lost ops I have seen so far were not lost due to a flawed fleet composition but to lacking player skills and even more to players unable to comprehend the objectives or look at the map occasionally.

 

Destroyers are anything but useless in ops, if played correctly, which is true for any class of ships. They can spot for the team in positions any cruiser would get melted in seconds, they can smoke damaged players so they can disengage or move to repair bases. In missions where bots follow programmed pathes they can nuke BBs. Against bots, DDs are very good at baiting torpedo bombers thus taking the heat off the BBs. In maps with repair bases, DDs can return from nearly dead to full health quite fast, where any larger ship would be out of the game for minutes. I had games where I healed back two times, effectively taking 3 DDs into battle.

The strength of a DD highly depends on a team playing together. If BBs focus down bot cruisers the DD can move in and torp bow-on BBs that the rest of the team would take much longer to finish. In that respect ops are not so different from random battles. If a team cannot work together, the op will likely fail. That is not the DD-player's fault, it just appears so cause DDs are the first to go in an all-out shooting.

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