The true power of divisions

[El2aZeR]

With all this controversy about divisions I thought I'd showcase what power just two or three guys coordinating can hold in a game that is played 12 vs 12.

 

Now for the first part, for the longest time I've played with these guys, henceforth called Friend 1 & 2:

Spoiler

Friend 1 solo stats

 

Plays a mix of KM BBs and cruisers. A few low tier IJN DDs as well although he's not very good with them according to himself.

 

Friend 2 solo stats

 

 

Plays pretty much only Russian and low-mid tier USN/RN cruisers. Doesn't like DD playstyle, hates BBs with a passion.

I told him those aren't good starting lines especially considering the current meta but he's stubborn to say the least.

Should be noted that he's playing on a potato with a garbage connection. Isn't rare that it takes him several minutes to load into a battle or a dozen or so seconds for enemy ships to render, so that obviously affects his performance.

 

I play with these guys not because of their individual skill (obviously) but because we're real life friends and have a fun time playing together.

 

Now, what happens when we put these guys together in a div?

Spoiler

Friend 1 2-div stats:

 

Friend 2 2-div stats:

 

As you can see, both get their WR elevated by 5-6%.

I've played 2-divs with Friend 1 a fair amount as Friend 2 started out far later. I haven't played 2-divs with Friend 2 at all as I'm usually the last to arrive home.

Thus only Friend 2's stats are representative of Friend 1 and Friend 2 divisioning together. The former gets his WR cut a bit, while the latter gets elevated.

 

So what if you add me to the mix?

Spoiler

Friend 1 3-div stats:

 

Friend 2 3-div stats:

 

Oh boy.

All of these were played together as they don't have any other friends that play this game, online or real life. Dunno why there is a small discrepancy in total games played.

 

To complete the picture, here are my 3-div stats

 

So I've only played ~120 matches in 3-divs without them.

And as you can plainly see I don't only play CVs with them either. Even if, they don't remotely run AA spec (they don't even have the points for it). At most they take DFAA and that's it. I think Friend 1 even has Survivability Expert on his Hinden which I told him is a stupid ing thing to spec but meh, he can't cough up the doubloons or free captain exp to change that now anyway.

 

But what do I do that gives two at best mediocre players the ability to reach a 70+% WR? Well, I can micromanage their actions. I tell them which targets to pursue, when to push, when to retreat, when to run silent, when to use consumables, etc.etc. etc. Aka I communicate and play with my teammates. We're usually sitting in Teamspeak or Skype while we play. This gives them access to a level of play that they're not privy to on their own.

And if they die without accomplishing much? Well, I'm still a pretty good player myself if I may say so. Chances are I can still carry the match on my own.

I'm not exactly shy about sacrificing them (or myself for the matter) to gain an advantage either. It's one of the first lessons I've instilled upon them. Play for the team, not for yourself.

Practically speaking I'm carrying the matches we play. I only have two additional "pawns" to do it in the crudest sense. It's what some people would call "teamplay". Shocking, I know.

 

So now that we know what one unicum with two at best mediocre players can do, is it any real wonder that three highly skilled players playing together can hit absurd winrates?

And what is the cause for this? We're not "abusing" any game mechanics after all and only one of us is actually skilled. We're just playing the game as it was meant to be played: As a team. This alone allows us to overcome TWELVE OTHER GUYS in the vast majority of our matches. Not CVs, not AA, not consumable spam, but simple communication between three guys that are playing for the objective, one of whom is essentially half blind thanks to his bad setup.

 

Let that sink in for a moment, then wail in despair as you realize what it means for average player skill.

 

So here you have it.

Teamplay op, pls nerf.

[HaachamaShipping]

Just to be contrary...

 

The sample size is a bit small, being just three people. If I look at my own division stats, paired with a friend my winrate actually drops by 2 percentage points, compared to my solo winrate.

[Kenliero]

45 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Just to be contrary...

 

The sample size is a bit small, being just three people. If I look at my own division stats, paired with a friend my winrate actually drops by 2 percentage points, compared to my solo winrate.

I'm pretty sure you could improve your communication? Do you use voice? Your division buddies don't have to be good players at all to improve everyone's winrate if you just communicate well. It's all about communication in div. You only really need one better player to know what is the best strategy in current situation and the rest can do a very good job even if they plain suck solo. All you need is good coordination.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

wait what ? do i see a show off? haha

[159Hunter]

@El2aZeR is OP, plz nerf.

 

But yes divisions give you extra power, but they are not invincible (because no matter what you try, you cannot carry each and every team).

[HaachamaShipping]

35 minutes ago, Kenliero said:

I'm pretty sure you could improve your communication? Do you use voice? Your division buddies don't have to be good players at all to improve everyone's winrate if you just communicate well. It's all about communication in div. You only really need one better player to know what is the best strategy in current situation and the rest can do a very good job even if they plain suck solo. All you need is good coordination.

Definitely. Voice, but not always, depending on connection. We need to work on that. It isn't terrible. I just found it silly that my stats in divisions actually went down.

[AndyTheCupid]

Yep, me solo 54%, In a division of 2 64%.

[megaducky]

Divisions are great, I love to be in them because of this very reason. But I hate networking people to get in one. IMO div play is the largest actual skill disparity you can have in game. A well come ordinated div is better then having a team with all the radar and a super unicum CV.

[Boris_MNE]

6 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

With all this controversy about divisions I thought I'd showcase what power just two or three guys coordinating can hold in a game that is played 12 vs 12.

 

Now for the first part, for the longest time I've played with these guys, henceforth called Friend 1 & 2:

  Reveal hidden contents

Friend 1 solo stats

 

Plays a mix of KM BBs and cruisers. A few low tier IJN DDs as well although he's not very good with them according to himself.

 

Friend 2 solo stats

 

 

Plays pretty much only Russian and low-mid tier USN/RN cruisers. Doesn't like DD playstyle, hates BBs with a passion.

I told him those aren't good starting lines especially considering the current meta but he's stubborn to say the least.

Should be noted that he's playing on a potato with a garbage connection. Isn't rare that it takes him several minutes to load into a battle or a dozen or so seconds for enemy ships to render, so that obviously affects his performance.

 

I play with these guys not because of their individual skill (obviously) but because we're real life friends and have a fun time playing together.

 

Now, what happens when we put these guys together in a div?

  Reveal hidden contents

Friend 1 2-div stats:

 

Friend 2 2-div stats:

 

As you can see, both get their WR elevated by 5-6%.

I've played 2-divs with Friend 1 a fair amount as Friend 2 started out far later. I haven't played 2-divs with Friend 2 at all as I'm usually the last to arrive home.

Thus only Friend 2's stats are representative of Friend 1 and Friend 2 divisioning together. The former gets his WR cut a bit, while the latter gets elevated.

 

So what if you add me to the mix?

  Reveal hidden contents

Friend 1 3-div stats:

 

Friend 2 3-div stats:

 

Oh boy.

All of these were played together as they don't have any other friends that play this game, online or real life. Dunno why there is a small discrepancy in total games played.

 

To complete the picture, here are my 3-div stats

 

So I've only played ~120 matches in 3-divs without them.

And as you can plainly see I don't only play CVs with them either. Even if, they don't remotely run AA spec (they don't even have the points for it). At most they take DFAA and that's it. I think Friend 1 even has Survivability Expert on his Hinden which I told him is a stupid ing thing to spec but meh, he can't cough up the doubloons or free captain exp to change that now anyway.

 

But what do I do that gives two at best mediocre players the ability to reach a 70+% WR? Well, I can micromanage their actions. I tell them which targets to pursue, when to push, when to retreat, when to run silent, when to use consumables, etc.etc. etc. Aka I communicate and play with my teammates. We're usually sitting in Teamspeak or Skype while we play. This gives them access to a level of play that they're not privy to on their own.

And if they die without accomplishing much? Well, I'm still a pretty good player myself if I may say so. Chances are I can still carry the match on my own.

I'm not exactly shy about sacrificing them (or myself for the matter) to gain an advantage either. It's one of the first lessons I've instilled upon them. Play for the team, not for yourself.

Practically speaking I'm carrying the matches we play. I only have two additional "pawns" to do it in the crudest sense. It's what some people would call "teamplay". Shocking, I know.

 

So now that we know what one unicum with two at best mediocre players can do, is it any real wonder that three highly skilled players playing together can hit absurd winrates?

And what is the cause for this? We're not "abusing" any game mechanics after all and only one of us is actually skilled. We're just playing the game as it was meant to be played: As a team. This alone allows us to overcome TWELVE OTHER GUYS in the vast majority of our matches. Not CVs, not AA, not consumable spam, but simple communication between three guys that are playing for the objective, one of whom is essentially half blind thanks to his bad setup.

 

Let that sink in for a moment, then wail in despair as you realize what it means for average player skill.

 

So here you have it.

Teamplay op, pls nerf.

 

 

 

Not even going to read, I have to go on job in few minutes. I just wanted to smack you seal of potatoes, for no reason.
Komrad Boris abusing his power. Cheers

 

[Boris_MNE]

2 hours ago, xXx_Blogis_xXx said:

wait what ? do i see a show off? haha

 

 

yu too are potato. Delete game plox

 

[nimlock]

Heh... it took me around 300 battles to figure this out, but that's still a small sample size and more an educated guess. WoT like WoWs has better MM at T10, but it isn't a necesity to rush to that tier. Only when they introduced Bonds to WoT and wrecked the balance of all tiers with better modules, which can be feasably farmed only in T10, i quit. WoWs on the other hand has way to many consumables powercreeping divisions - radar, sonar and smoke. Duno how WG logic works: radar and sonar can actually make ships behind smoke and islands visible - that's not how radio/echo location works if you want to keep using the same game balancing argument as historically accurate (it's an arcade game trough and trough). It would be somewhat fine if only the UI would show the tags, but not the ship itself but thats not the only pressing issue. Thanks to divisions and teamplay in general you can go around individual cooldowns and use up your consumables in sequences denying vision for extended ammounts of time. And only in the recent months spotting badges became implemented, clearly raising flags that different WG game studios haw separate game designers and don't even take good game development poractices from their own staff in other studios. And now "legendary" equimpment is in the works; thankfully only restricted to T10,..  so they started to finally copy themselves lol.

 

And the sad truth is: if they would implement only solo queue, we would see a lot more bots in games because how niche this game allreaddy is. I'd rather play solo in T1-5 on a free schedule whenever i want to, rather than in high tiers waiting for divisions to form on a schedule to haw the samme ammount of fun. 

 

IMO, games should be played for fun and not for boosting someones low self esttem in real life just to throw mud at others why they don't perform as good (some people do haw RL responsibilities and don't play games 24/7. Your bound to get better if you spend so much of your life doing it).

 

[Hawker_gb]

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

With all this controversy about divisions I thought I'd showcase what power just two or three guys coordinating can hold in a game that is played 12 vs 12.

 

Now for the first part, for the longest time I've played with these guys, henceforth called Friend 1 & 2:

  Hide contents

Friend 1 solo stats

 

Plays a mix of KM BBs and cruisers. A few low tier IJN DDs as well although he's not very good with them according to himself.

 

Friend 2 solo stats

 

 

Plays pretty much only Russian and low-mid tier USN/RN cruisers. Doesn't like DD playstyle, hates BBs with a passion.

I told him those aren't good starting lines especially considering the current meta but he's stubborn to say the least.

Should be noted that he's playing on a potato with a garbage connection. Isn't rare that it takes him several minutes to load into a battle or a dozen or so seconds for enemy ships to render, so that obviously affects his performance.

 

I play with these guys not because of their individual skill (obviously) but because we're real life friends and have a fun time playing together.

 

Now, what happens when we put these guys together in a div?

  Hide contents

Friend 1 2-div stats:

 

Friend 2 2-div stats:

 

As you can see, both get their WR elevated by 5-6%.

I've played 2-divs with Friend 1 a fair amount as Friend 2 started out far later. I haven't played 2-divs with Friend 2 at all as I'm usually the last to arrive home.

Thus only Friend 2's stats are representative of Friend 1 and Friend 2 divisioning together. The former gets his WR cut a bit, while the latter gets elevated.

 

So what if you add me to the mix?

  Reveal hidden contents

Friend 1 3-div stats:

 

Friend 2 3-div stats:

 

Oh boy.

All of these were played together as they don't have any other friends that play this game, online or real life. Dunno why there is a small discrepancy in total games played.

 

To complete the picture, here are my 3-div stats

 

So I've only played ~120 matches in 3-divs without them.

And as you can plainly see I don't only play CVs with them either. Even if, they don't remotely run AA spec (they don't even have the points for it). At most they take DFAA and that's it. I think Friend 1 even has Survivability Expert on his Hinden which I told him is a stupid ing thing to spec but meh, he can't cough up the doubloons or free captain exp to change that now anyway.

 

But what do I do that gives two at best mediocre players the ability to reach a 70+% WR? Well, I can micromanage their actions. I tell them which targets to pursue, when to push, when to retreat, when to run silent, when to use consumables, etc.etc. etc. Aka I communicate and play with my teammates. We're usually sitting in Teamspeak or Skype while we play. This gives them access to a level of play that they're not privy to on their own.

And if they die without accomplishing much? Well, I'm still a pretty good player myself if I may say so. Chances are I can still carry the match on my own.

I'm not exactly shy about sacrificing them (or myself for the matter) to gain an advantage either. It's one of the first lessons I've instilled upon them. Play for the team, not for yourself.

Practically speaking I'm carrying the matches we play. I only have two additional "pawns" to do it in the crudest sense. It's what some people would call "teamplay". Shocking, I know.

 

So now that we know what one unicum with two at best mediocre players can do, is it any real wonder that three highly skilled players playing together can hit absurd winrates?

And what is the cause for this? We're not "abusing" any game mechanics after all and only one of us is actually skilled. We're just playing the game as it was meant to be played: As a team. This alone allows us to overcome TWELVE OTHER GUYS in the vast majority of our matches. Not CVs, not AA, not consumable spam, but simple communication between three guys that are playing for the objective, one of whom is essentially half blind thanks to his bad setup.

 

Let that sink in for a moment, then wail in despair as you realize what it means for average player skill.

 

So here you have it.

Teamplay op, pls nerf.

Nope ,these things happen when top CV player like you get noob CV in enemy team thus their win ratio goes up because of your CV skill ;)

[eliastion]

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Well, I can micromanage their actions. I tell them which targets to pursue, when to push, when to retreat, when to run silent, when to use consumables, etc.etc. etc. Aka I communicate and play with my teammates. We're usually sitting in Teamspeak or Skype while we play.

 

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Teamplay op, pls nerf.

 

But what you describe isn't exactly about "teamplay" and neither is it really about divisions. From what you describe it's a unicum player micromanaging two other players' actions, thus substituting his situational awareness for theirs and making their positioning and tactical decisions for them. If you didn't actually play but rather stood behind one of your friends chair telling him (her?) what to do, there would also be tremendous improvement (compared to normal solo stats) without any divisioning in the mix at all.

Your friends still lag behind in "mechanical" skills in executing your instructions and I'd wager that even you can't exactly make tactical decisions for three people concurrently on the same level as you can when just playing and thinking for yourself, but nonetheless it's more about the power of unicum-level decision making. Sure, unicum-level decision making involves teamplay (it's a team game) and you're doing it in a division (giving yourself two additional "pawns" to exert your decision making through) but these things - contrary to the thread title - aren't the core of what your post describes.

[El2aZeR]

9 minutes ago, eliastion said:

If you didn't actually play but rather stood behind one of your friends chair telling him (her?) what to do, there would also be tremendous improvement (compared to normal solo stats) without any divisioning in the mix at all.

 

Dunno about you, but I'd peg ingame leading or coaching as a form of teamplay.

[Exocet6951]

6 hours ago, Riselotte said:

If I look at my own division stats, paired with a friend my winrate actually drops by 2 percentage points, compared to my solo winrate.

 

Same, but only because unless I'm playing a srs bizness ship, I tend to go a bit gung ho with them.

"Go A? Seems stupid, alright."
"Don't move, I'm sending torpedoes right in front of you."
In fact, it's become a meme that when one of them says torpedoes spotted, the two others look behind them before looking forward 

 

If you didn't actually play but rather stood behind one of your friends chair telling him (her?) what to do, there would also be tremendous improvement (compared to normal solo stats) without any divisioning in the mix at all.

 

Interestingly, I did try that yesterday.
By telling my better half what to do in a Cesare (in a T7 match), she managed to be in the top third of the leaderboard in the handful of matches she tried.

Fast low tier cruisers however, was a mistake.
RIP Duguay-Trouin, 2fast2furious2panic2torpedo'd

 

 

[EdiJo]

I am starting to think the team play is what I miss the most from this game. I usually play ALONE, but have a few occasional buddies and played a bunch of "non-optimal" (like 2BB...) division games, without voice comm. It was already much more successful than the single player mode.

 

Yesterday I for a change divisioned with my 15yr old son and had voice channel - even if we didn't have the greatest games and didn't crush the opponents it was already "purple" on stats. So yes, team play is OP, stats confirmed 

[cuddlesRO]

co-op/multi is for 10 year olds or statwhores. i am not wasting time to get players for wargaming just to have somebody to play with no matter how op or not. I prefer them out "supporting" me having a drink lol. An if you win 70% rather than 50% who the [edited]cares? you and your geek and nerds army. You win 2 games more out of 10 compared  to  an average bob that wins 5. Yawwwn. 

[Exocet6951]

10 minutes ago, clocky said:

co-op/multi is for 10 year olds or statwhores. i am not wasting time to get players for wargaming just to have somebody to play with no matter how op or not. I prefer them out "supporting" me having a drink lol. An if you win 70% rather than 50% who the [edited]cares? you and your geek and nerds army. You win 2 games more out of 10 compared  to  an average bob that wins 5. Yawwwn. 

 

 

Here are some chill pills.
Take 2 before each meal, and one if you start being mad for no reason. Max 70 a day.

Doctor's orders.

[Sargento_YO]

You know, divisions aren't everything on this game. They can quite ruin your day even being on the same team.

 

Check this battle. Two divisions of 3 members each one. All of the same clan. Guess what happened?? The six of them stayed behind and do lots of camping. Despite being bottom tier I did my best on my carrier to carry the team, but to no avail. We lost.

And this happened twice times. In another battle another two divisions of 2 members each one from the same clan went lemming train far away from the main battle.

 

 

 

[Ubertron_X]

4 minutes ago, Sargento_YO said:

You know, divisions aren't everything on this game. They can quite ruin your day even being on the same team.

 

Check this battle. Two divisions of 3 members each one. All of the same clan. Guess what happened?? The six of them stayed behind and do lots of camping. Despite being bottom tier I did my best on my carrier to carry the team, but to no avail. We lost.

And this happened twice times. In another battle another two divisions of 2 members each one from the same clan went lemming train far away from the main battle.

Divisions are not invincible, but they are skill multipliers. For good and for worse!

 

That is normal/good players teaming up => better performance. Bad players teaming up => even worse performance.

 

[jss78]

I've played this game for 2+ years, and mainly with the exact same two RL friends. All three of us have over 1000 games solo, over 1000 games as 2-mans, and over 1000 games as a 3-man.

Our respective solo win rates: 57%, 58%, 53%
2-man win rates: 59%, 60%, 58%

3- man win rates: 65% for all

So a division definitely helps especially the weakest member, and playing as a 3-man is a huge help for all.

 

In the name of sealcscience, we did about a hundred games in a division of 3 König Alberts. I have a win rate of 80.2% in that ship after 126 games. Shortly after this experiment WG announced the ship is being pulled from sale, because it's too powerful in the hands of experienced players. I felt a little guilty.

[wot_chikor]

some fear in your heart ? is this also a 1 month old thread ? 

trust me i will do my best to stop people like you 

[El2aZeR]

5 hours ago, wot_chikor said:

trust me i will do my best to stop people like you

 

If this has been your best then I believe we have nothing to worry about.

Although I guess you haven't noticed that this thread has little to do with what you're whining about anyway.

[loppantorkel]

11 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

With all this controversy about divisions I thought I'd showcase what power just two or three guys coordinating can hold in a game that is played 12 vs 12.

 

Now for the first part, for the longest time I've played with these guys, henceforth called Friend 1 & 2:

 

I play with these guys not because of their individual skill (obviously) but because we're real life friends and have a fun time playing together.

 

Now, what happens when we put these guys together in a div?

 

So what if you add me to the mix?

 

So here you have it.

Teamplay op, pls nerf.

To complete the picture, I think you need to add your solo rates too. Impressive stats though.

[El2aZeR]

9 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

To complete the picture, I think you need to add your solo rates too.

 

They're publicly available so I didn't bother to add them. Anyone interested is free to check them out.

 

Though as a short summary it can be said that my general performance too improves by a pretty big margin when divisioning up with these guys.