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Main Gun Reload Booster breaks balance

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This is copied from FB development blog.

 

New consumable Main Gun Reload Booster are added in game for testing.

Reload Time of the Main Caliber -50%;
Duration 30 s;
Cooldown 120 s and 80 s for Main Gun Reload Booster II;
Charges 2 and 3 for Main Gun Reload Booster II;
Main goal of the new consumable get a chance for ship's owner boost for a small period of time reload main guns and fire a final salvo.

 

I do know that it is still in testing and might be changed. Still I would like to make you all aware of it's power in time so you, and the ST, can shut it down before it breaks the game.
In FB, this is just coming for te new ship Jean Bart, but it might come up later again for other ships. And the developers do not see it as OP, whereas I do. And if the ship is not balanced around this consumable it will ruin the balance.
So first how does it work: You pop it, your reload goes down by 50% starting from there for 30 sec. For a skilled player it means
Step 1: lose a bit of HP so AR kicks in. Suppose our reload is now 28 sec instead of 30. (even easier for potential T10 BBs with reload module)
Step 2: pop it right before you shoot. Then you get e.g. B/[1,15,29]/B,43,... In 30 seconds you can reload 3 whole salvos! Or, in 43 seconds you can shoot 4 volleys. If that still does not sound crazy consider this.
What happens if we just spam the consumable, 4 charges:
B/[1,15,29]/B, 43,71,99, B/[127,141,155]/B , 169,.... So each 126 seconds you shoot 6 salvos, where you would need usually 168 seconds. In numbers, for the period if 8 minutes you can improve your average DMP by 33%. 
Still does not sounds scary? Well, that is just if you consider a player to spam it without strategy. So in the worst case, it only improves your average DMP for 33%!
You could argue about only 8 min duration if you spam it. Did you consider that it takes a BB like 5 mins to get into a position. And most games don't last more than 15 mins altogether. And even if they do, I do not expect every BB to survive that long. So in essence, you could spam this consumable for your entire time of impact as a good BB player during a game. And if you time it right, like stay safe during cooldowns, push while active, it will get even better results. Just by that I conclude that the consumable borderline makes 25% more damage for the BB during the game (since damage close range has more impact than sniping at the start). 

And if that is not evidence enough for you that it breaks the balance, should it come out for several BBs, think about who suffers most. 
-BBs who both have such a consumable? Unlikely, since you can tank a BB and both have same risk/reward issues.
-CAs who snipe he from range? Yeah well, you can get some more salvos, but it remains the same as just a DMP buff. Though still for kiting cruisers like zao, that can only kite, it is still an issue. Before you could be sure that you are safe for 25-30 sec between shots, while now you cannot even got broadside in a zao for any moment to shoot all of your guns. And considering Zao is balanced only around that HE spam you cannot call it fair to be able to punish it that way.
-CLs and agressive Cruisers, that Push in to support the caps, objectives, dds. They will suffer the most. E.g. a Hindenburg that goes Brawling- well have fun with surviving 4 salvos in 40 sec... DM that got close to radar and holds an agressive position: when you had at least a chance to trade before you die, now it is out of question.Or like you know you can suvive for 2 salvos before your team punishes enemy BB. Well now it will be 4 instead of 2. Only way now- stay [edited]out of any agressive spots.
-DDs... Did I mention radar can keep them lit for 35-50 sec, and a BB can shoot up to 4 volleys in 45 seconds? 

I am completely sure this consumable in the right hands is as good as the healing one. And if the ship is not balanced around it by making him weaker (and I mean up to 25% less average DMP), which the developers do not intend to, it will just simply make the BBs ridiculously powerful. I would be fine with BBs chosing between this one and the heal. Or a better suggestion, keep it, but make the guns reload only 20% faster, and give it to the light cruisers instead of radar. Would be great, since you can benefit from it, if the BBs push a worcester it is dead anyway and dds live a happier live. But pls make anything possible to not let that crap happen on bbs.

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[PN4VY]
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Who the hell proposes these changes and is still employed?
Do you guys even play the same game as us?

You just fraked every cruiser in the game.
As if their pain wasnt already enough.
This will just promote more camping.

You really need to take 10 steps back and re-evaluate your decisions, present and past.

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For now, it's on Jean Bart. On Jean Bart, it will threaten some cruisers, but any cruiser that gets caught out in position for 40 seconds likely should not be in that position anyway and if they couldn't fix their positioning in 40 seconds, then well, they kind of deserve getting blapped. If you show broadside to a Jean Bart that is firing at you for 40 seconds, what do you expect? And most of the cruisers you mentioned can actually tank 38 cm shells. If that Hindenburg is going for the brawl, that Jean Bart has likely the greater issues than the Hindenburg.

 

For kiting cruisers, even when kiting you'd never show full broadside and should have the rudder shift to cope with like 12-14 seconds of reload between shells. Heck, if you notice the second salvo coming sooner, you could just fade away and wait it out.

 

As a DD, if you are being lit up by radar for 40 seconds straight and don't already die, then it's either that you found shelter or the enemy is too dumb to shoot at you. Either case, Jean Bart won't change that. Des Moines 50+ second radar is not an issue because you get shot at for a minute, but because it establishes a no-go zone for a minute. If you are already in there and stay in there for even just 30 seconds in the open, you likely are dead.

 

And as to BBs having to choose between this and repair party... Jean Bart already loses 2 charges of repair party for 4 charges of reload booster. That's pretty heavy and personally, I'd take 2 charges of repair party over this gimmick pretty much any day.

 

And as for spamming this consumable, you basically use it when you are quite sure you got stuff to shoot at for the next 30-40 seconds. If you just click it as it becomes available, you basically are throwing away dpm at taking ineffective shots or idling while selecting targets. Kind of like the torpedo reload booster. And it may not be available when you actually need it then. Also, I wouldn't expect super aggressive play from a BB with only three charges of repair party. Jean Bart still is a Richelieu, coated in 32 mm plating, going to eat HE penetrations from cruisers left right and center.

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IF this consumable goes into the same slot as the heal (like you have to trade TRB for smoke), then it would still be bad because all the BBs would pick it and use it from the J line.

 

The very idea of adding it in any other way is even stupider than adding radar and zombie heals on every BB.

Just imagine its use and abuse:

See a target turn and show broadside? 

See a DD rushing you 2 km from an island which normally would take 10-15k dmg from 1 volley, but if full hp will 1 shot the BB?

See that cruiser pushing in to brawl?

See that radar cruiser pushing in to support a dd?

 

As to the argument it is only on Jean Bart:

Remember Kutuzov and Flint being the "only" smoke cruisers? And what happened then?

Remember Missouri being the only BB with radar (and a certain WG proposal regarding RN BBs)? 

Remember Belfast and Black being the first and only ships combining radar and smoke?

Remember how WG is fond turning this game into World of Gimmicks?

 

Time to leave the sinking ship if this change goes through.

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I still think it will be absolutely useless and regarded to as garbage. Especially since you are trading 2 heals for it - you'll just be doing more long range inaccurate spamming with it, as you can't afford to close in.

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2 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

IF this consumable goes into the same slot as the heal (like you have to trade TRB for smoke), then it would still be bad because all the BBs would pick it and use it from the J line.

 

The very idea of adding it in any other way is even stupider than adding radar and zombie heals on every BB.

Just imagine its use and abuse:

See a target turn and show broadside? 

See a DD rushing you 2 km from an island which normally would take 10-15k dmg from 1 volley, but if full hp will 1 shot the BB?

See that cruiser pushing in to brawl?

See that radar cruiser pushing in to support a dd?

 

As to the argument it is only on Jean Bart:

Remember Kutuzov and Flint being the "only" smoke cruisers? And what happened then?

Remember Missouri being the only BB with radar (and a certain WG proposal regarding RN BBs)? 

Remember Belfast and Black being the first and only ships combining radar and smoke?

Remember how WG is fond turning this game into World of Gimmicks?

 

Time to leave the sinking ship if this change goes through.

See a target turn and show broadside? Well, how about you don't show broadside in front of a goddamn BB? And if you turn around just after a BB has fired, this consumable will still mean 12-15 seconds reload, so you shouldn't be caught full broadside. A Minotaur would be a greater threat than this.

See a DD rushing from 2 km. You get one salvo at best at that range. At such distances, you might not even have the turret traverse to prevent it.

See that cruiser pushing to brawl? Can it tank BB shells? Yes? Then it shouldn't really be an issue. A Hipper can bowtank JB just fine, one salvo or two. No? That cruiser shouldn't pull this crap anyway.

See that radar cruiser pushing in to support the DD? If the radar cruiser is exposed for that kinda crap, they are risking getting blapped anyway. One lucky salvo by a T8 BB is enough to devstrike a Baltimore/Chapayev/Cleveland/Edinburgh. Most radar cruisers sit behind corners for a reason.

 

Meanwhile, what does this effectively mean for a BB? Jean Bart will have to be very careful with its hp management, having significantly less hp to go around than any other BB at its tier. It will have to use the reload booster to not just be a straight up crap Richelieu with better AA (because CVs still haven't kicked the bucket yet, despite WGs best attempts). Get into a battle with anything that can tank your shells and you are in for a very hard time, because you are quite likely to just eat a lot of damage you won't regain as easily and if you don't play very conservative, you'll not survive till late game.

 

Also, Iwaki Alpha had smoke way before Kutuzov and Flint.

Missouri still is the only BB with radar.

Belfast was pulled from sales and WG admit they consider it a problematic ship, Black is still available and pays for it in torp armament, recent Grozovoi buff was reconsidered.

Did Torpedo Reload Booster break the game? Oh my god, how did Warships go on after I can no longer count on that IJN DD (or Monaghan) having expended all its torps and being harmless for a minute or so? TRB is likely one of the least disruptive gimmicks there is and I doubt main battery reload boost will be anything different. you'll have to be on guard, Jean Bart will punish mistakes slightly harder (though typically by the time reload boost gives you a second or third salvo, the mistake is either corrected or the target is dead).

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Way too early to jump to conclusions, wait atleast until it's on the ptu before forming an opinion. Look, the devs are in a tough spot, in that this game uses the same business model as mobile games, and that requires constant gimmicks to keep you spamming the spin (battle) button. One saving grace is that they do to some degree seem to be influenced by reaction in the ptu (recently evidenced by Grozovoi).

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Well if you use it to balance ships that are UP or are between tiers game strength wise it may be a decent idea, instead of doing  a  higher rate of fire at all times.

38 cm guns is slightly weak at T8 even so at T9. If you choose to take in a reload booster that a few times gives a shorter fire rate and 30 s normal reload or buffs it every time to 25 s what is the difference?.

 

That does not say that I like it but I may think it is worth testing, just as TRB. 

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2 hours ago, zengaze said:

Way too early to jump to conclusions, wait atleast until it's on the ptu before forming an opinion.

this

 

7 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

I still think it will be absolutely useless and regarded to as garbage. Especially since you are trading 2 heals for it

and this

 

 

With that new consumable you will just shot three times when a same ship without it can shot twice. So in fact you have ONE salvo more. And now tell me how this is "balance breaking".

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2 hours ago, Gnirf said:

Well if you use it to balance ships that are UP or are between tiers game strength wise it may be a decent idea, instead of doing  a  higher rate of fire at all times.

38 cm guns is slightly weak at T8 even so at T9. If you choose to take in a reload booster that a few times gives a shorter fire rate and 30 s normal reload or buffs it every time to 25 s what is the difference?.

 

That does not say that I like it but I may think it is worth testing, just as TRB. 

I was just evaluating the impact. All I said was it is a huge buff. If you 'nerf' the ships in other way, or if they were underpowered to begin with, that is a way to balance them. You have just to be aware of the impact, so you don't make them too powerful. As said I see it borderline equal to 25% DMP increase, meaning it is the same as decreasing the reload to 24 sec. And also, all BBs with 380mm guns are balanced around the guns, you cannot ask them to lift their weakness so every single BB can crap on other classes. Or in exapmple, the decrese the reload of the Richelieu to 24 sec and take away 2 heals, and then they would like to test, if it is balanced now.

 

2 hours ago, zengaze said:

Way too early to jump to conclusions, wait atleast until it's on the ptu before forming an opinion. Look, the devs are in a tough spot, in that this game uses the same business model as mobile games, and that requires constant gimmicks to keep you spamming the spin (battle) button. One saving grace is that they do to some degree seem to be influenced by reaction in the ptu (recently evidenced by Grozovoi).

I just made a deep analysis. Also, if you don't trust me on my facts, I am the warlead of my clan, the one doing the tactics for Clanbattles etc. It is my job to evaluate and assess the changes, and this one scares me that much that I even start a forum for that. Therefore, if you have some comments to make about my evaluation, feel free to do so, otherwise there is no need to wait and you should demolish this idea before it even gets on track.

 

7 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

I still think it will be absolutely useless and regarded to as garbage. Especially since you are trading 2 heals for it - you'll just be doing more long range inaccurate spamming with it, as you can't afford to close in.

Exactly the oposite. If you don't think selfishly (by that I mean, in regards of objectives and not your own ship etc.) what will give you more impact? A heal will heal maybe up to 10k on your ship. Which means like 15% of your HP. You are robbed by 2 heals (most!), so in the very best case, if you really tank a lot and live to the end game, you are robbed by 30% (of your potential '175%') HP. So if you can deal the same amount of damage, meaning if you can make 30% damage to other ships for that, in terms of balance it is viable. As I said, for 8mins straight your average DPM increases by 33%; in unskillfull hands, will that be enough to damage 30% of any ship? Or just more downgraded, do you think 8 additional shots will be enough to citadel a cruiser just once? Alternativly, do you think you manage to penetrate a dd with 8 salvos once? Especially since the random scrubs tend to go for damage rather than tanking everyone will pick it. And in good hands, popping the consumable at the right time (4 salvos in 45 seconds) will grant you already more impact than the 2 heals you lose.
Next thing, camping. Hell no. The reason why you should not charge in as a BB is becasue you should try to use all of your heals. But I have only 3. Sometimes even BBs with 5 heals rush in, without using all of their heals, and it is still worth it. Jean Bart would not lose anything by agressive playstyle. Especially if you consider that your time of action is limited by 8 minutes you don't want to have a long live.
And did I meantion your DMP increase? I mean I said by retarded spamming it you get only 33% average. But if you time it right, your damage output will even increase more (compared to richelieu). Hell yes this crap is worth 2 heals. I still claim it is worth waaaay more.

 

8 hours ago, GulvkluderGuld said:

IF this consumable goes into the same slot as the heal (like you have to trade TRB for smoke), then it would still be bad because all the BBs would pick it and use it from the J line.

 

If all pick this and snipe from long ranges let them. I mean it is not the consumable that ruins the game, it is the camping BB meta. But if they are going to, at least make them effective I guess. Also, as a cruiser and DD I don't mind a yamato shooting faster, but beeing 10km further away. My job is not to kill it, my job is to get the caps/win the game. I would not mind bad players beeing bad, the consumable itself will not support camping on it's own.

 

8 hours ago, Riselotte said:

For now, it's on Jean Bart. On Jean Bart, it will threaten some cruisers, but any cruiser that gets caught out in position for 40 seconds likely should not be in that position anyway and if they couldn't fix their positioning in 40 seconds, then well, they kind of deserve getting blapped. If you show broadside to a Jean Bart that is firing at you for 40 seconds, what do you expect? And most of the cruisers you mentioned can actually tank 38 cm shells. If that Hindenburg is going for the brawl, that Jean Bart has likely the greater issues than the Hindenburg.

 

For kiting cruisers, even when kiting you'd never show full broadside and should have the rudder shift to cope with like 12-14 seconds of reload between shells. Heck, if you notice the second salvo coming sooner, you could just fade away and wait it out.

 

As a DD, if you are being lit up by radar for 40 seconds straight and don't already die, then it's either that you found shelter or the enemy is too dumb to shoot at you. Either case, Jean Bart won't change that. Des Moines 50+ second radar is not an issue because you get shot at for a minute, but because it establishes a no-go zone for a minute. If you are already in there and stay in there for even just 30 seconds in the open, you likely are dead.

 

And as to BBs having to choose between this and repair party... Jean Bart already loses 2 charges of repair party for 4 charges of reload booster. That's pretty heavy and personally, I'd take 2 charges of repair party over this gimmick pretty much any day.

 

And as for spamming this consumable, you basically use it when you are quite sure you got stuff to shoot at for the next 30-40 seconds. If you just click it as it becomes available, you basically are throwing away dpm at taking ineffective shots or idling while selecting targets. Kind of like the torpedo reload booster. And it may not be available when you actually need it then. Also, I wouldn't expect super aggressive play from a BB with only three charges of repair party. Jean Bart still is a Richelieu, coated in 32 mm plating, going to eat HE penetrations from cruisers left right and center.

Sorry I even had to check your stats to see whether you have a point. Giving the ones I see I can trustworthy say, you are completely wrong. You have only 2500 games, and not much success either. And even if that is not bad itself, you are claiming quite a lot you have no understanding of.
First of all cruisers can be caught of guard. Especially if they play right, support dds, they will be close. Right now if I see a BB, I can bait the shot and I got 30 sec to turn out. Well, with this consumable I am screwed -> best thing to do is not even get close or support any dds yay. Another example, I push with a zao into a cap to support dd. Enemy dd spotted, I shot 1 salvo, can get maybe like 5-10k damage done. Next thing is (since I am really overextended), I turn out and run. I am spotted for 20 sec, which is enough for 1 shot, which I gladly trade for helping my dd. Yeah well, now you can shoot twice in 20 sec. And about fixing position, I would like to fix my position, it is just by your awful fast reload I don't have the time to fix my position. 1 mistake and I am dead. Best thing I could do in a regular scenario is to push and yolo maybe, but not with 15 sec reload time.
About kiting, it is not about showing broadside, it is about turning, or just beeing able to do so, maybe to trop once in a Zao or ibuki. Also you have to show enough broadside to shoot all your guns in many ships, or like a henry which is running. Now you can be always be punished for trying to play your game.
As a dd in high tier games. I play a DM so I know what I am taling about. You can sneak up to a good spot and pop radar. Now all your ships have maybe 15-20 sec until the DD is out of radar range. Notice that it does not have to be a cap, I will not position myself to be able to shoot him anyway. Also he might be just on the other side of the island and only 1 bb can hit him. But well, in any case, this dd will get twice the AP love from BBs. And it is not his fault.

 

And finally you did not get my point. I just literally said if you are retarded enough to throw it away by spamming it will result still in 33% DMP increase. If you use it with brain, it will have even more impact. And that is why it is stupidly retarded and should never, ever make it into the game. Like easily make 2 well timed pushes and this consumable can potentially give you twice the damage you would do in the same spot as Richelieu. All, for now, for the price of 2 heals. Balance comrade

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i can tell you why this consumable is balance braking:

it rewards and empowers retarded players even more.

retarded players are the ones that don't know how to manage their heals ( that's why they stay at the back), so they won't feel the trade.

however, this consumable gives them 33% more dpm at will, to punish you when you get close to them to kill them, and give them an extra chance, that they wouldn't have.

guys, truly i don't get why you don't get it...that wg is throwing the concept of pay to win and you are accepting it like is normal. Every  premium ships has to have some gimmicks that have to make it better than is silver counterpart, or in some other way retarded ( asashio, graf).  ANd this are ships that empowers idiot player way more than they should.

and you can bet that this consumable will get implemented for italian or russian bbs

 

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9 hours ago, DataDemon said:

This is copied from FB development blog.

 

New consumable Main Gun Reload Booster are added in game for testing.

Reload Time of the Main Caliber -50%;
Duration 30 s;
Cooldown 120 s and 80 s for Main Gun Reload Booster II;
Charges 2 and 3 for Main Gun Reload Booster II;
Main goal of the new consumable get a chance for ship's owner boost for a small period of time reload main guns and fire a final salvo.

 

I do know that it is still in testing and might be changed. Still I would like to make you all aware of it's power in time so you, and the ST, can shut it down before it breaks the game.
In FB, this is just coming for te new ship Jean Bart, but it might come up later again for other ships. And the developers do not see it as OP, whereas I do. And if the ship is not balanced around this consumable it will ruin the balance.
So first how does it work: You pop it, your reload goes down by 50% starting from there for 30 sec. For a skilled player it means
Step 1: lose a bit of HP so AR kicks in. Suppose our reload is now 28 sec instead of 30. (even easier for potential T10 BBs with reload module)
Step 2: pop it right before you shoot. Then you get e.g. B/[1,15,29]/B,43,... In 30 seconds you can reload 3 whole salvos! Or, in 43 seconds you can shoot 4 volleys. If that still does not sound crazy consider this.
What happens if we just spam the consumable, 4 charges:
B/[1,15,29]/B, 43,71,99, B/[127,141,155]/B , 169,.... So each 126 seconds you shoot 6 salvos, where you would need usually 168 seconds. In numbers, for the period if 8 minutes you can improve your average DMP by 33%. 
Still does not sounds scary? Well, that is just if you consider a player to spam it without strategy. So in the worst case, it only improves your average DMP for 33%!
You could argue about only 8 min duration if you spam it. Did you consider that it takes a BB like 5 mins to get into a position. And most games don't last more than 15 mins altogether. And even if they do, I do not expect every BB to survive that long. So in essence, you could spam this consumable for your entire time of impact as a good BB player during a game. And if you time it right, like stay safe during cooldowns, push while active, it will get even better results. Just by that I conclude that the consumable borderline makes 25% more damage for the BB during the game (since damage close range has more impact than sniping at the start). 

And if that is not evidence enough for you that it breaks the balance, should it come out for several BBs, think about who suffers most. 
-BBs who both have such a consumable? Unlikely, since you can tank a BB and both have same risk/reward issues.
-CAs who snipe he from range? Yeah well, you can get some more salvos, but it remains the same as just a DMP buff. Though still for kiting cruisers like zao, that can only kite, it is still an issue. Before you could be sure that you are safe for 25-30 sec between shots, while now you cannot even got broadside in a zao for any moment to shoot all of your guns. And considering Zao is balanced only around that HE spam you cannot call it fair to be able to punish it that way.
-CLs and agressive Cruisers, that Push in to support the caps, objectives, dds. They will suffer the most. E.g. a Hindenburg that goes Brawling- well have fun with surviving 4 salvos in 40 sec... DM that got close to radar and holds an agressive position: when you had at least a chance to trade before you die, now it is out of question.Or like you know you can suvive for 2 salvos before your team punishes enemy BB. Well now it will be 4 instead of 2. Only way now- stay [edited]out of any agressive spots.
-DDs... Did I mention radar can keep them lit for 35-50 sec, and a BB can shoot up to 4 volleys in 45 seconds? 

I am completely sure this consumable in the right hands is as good as the healing one. And if the ship is not balanced around it by making him weaker (and I mean up to 25% less average DMP), which the developers do not intend to, it will just simply make the BBs ridiculously powerful. I would be fine with BBs chosing between this one and the heal. Or a better suggestion, keep it, but make the guns reload only 20% faster, and give it to the light cruisers instead of radar. Would be great, since you can benefit from it, if the BBs push a worcester it is dead anyway and dds live a happier live. But pls make anything possible to not let that crap happen on bbs.

Fully agree.

I will also point out, and this is not intended as a slight against anyone here, that pretty much every top level player that I've spoken to has instantly recognized the absolutely insane potential of this consumable. That is not to say you are bad if you don't see it - far from it, people like Riselotte Wilkatis and principat are very good players! But still...

So, yeah okay, let's wait and see - wait until you see what we can do with this, we'll convince you how stupidly strong this is right quick!

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Italiano BBs should be the next BB-line? If this New gimmick works out then we might see it on them. What do you think?

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indeed the introduction itself is my greatest concern as well. as soon it's in, it gonna spread, we all know that..... 20 secs capital calibre?... improved AR for french (kicks in for jean), reload mod and a booster.... did i say i luv playin bb's :Smile_trollface::Smile_hiding:?...

 

seriously:

1871v6.jpg&key=f094d99ae3ad893f3a48f2e7d

 

... don't let it become world of gimmicks!

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50 minutes ago, DataDemon said:

I was just evaluating the impact. All I said was it is a huge buff. If you 'nerf' the ships in other way, or if they were underpowered to begin with, that is a way to balance them. You have just to be aware of the impact, so you don't make them too powerful. As said I see it borderline equal to 25% DMP increase, meaning it is the same as decreasing the reload to 24 sec. And also, all BBs with 380mm guns are balanced around the guns, you cannot ask them to lift their weakness so every single BB can crap on other classes. Or in exapmple, the decrese the reload of the Richelieu to 24 sec and take away 2 heals, and then they would like to test, if it is balanced now.

 

I just made a deep analysis. Also, if you don't trust me on my facts, I am the warlead of my clan, the one doing the tactics for Clanbattles etc. It is my job to evaluate and assess the changes, and this one scares me that much that I even start a forum for that. Therefore, if you have some comments to make about my evaluation, feel free to do so, otherwise there is no need to wait and you should demolish this idea before it even gets on track.

 

Exactly the oposite. If you don't think selfishly (by that I mean, in regards of objectives and not your own ship etc.) what will give you more impact? A heal will heal maybe up to 10k on your ship. Which means like 15% of your HP. You are robbed by 2 heals (most!), so in the very best case, if you really tank a lot and live to the end game, you are robbed by 30% (of your potential '175%') HP. So if you can deal the same amount of damage, meaning if you can make 30% damage to other ships for that, in terms of balance it is viable. As I said, for 8mins straight your average DPM increases by 33%; in unskillfull hands, will that be enough to damage 30% of any ship? Or just more downgraded, do you think 8 additional shots will be enough to citadel a cruiser just once? Alternativly, do you think you manage to penetrate a dd with 8 salvos once? Especially since the random scrubs tend to go for damage rather than tanking everyone will pick it. And in good hands, popping the consumable at the right time (4 salvos in 45 seconds) will grant you already more impact than the 2 heals you lose.
Next thing, camping. Hell no. The reason why you should not charge in as a BB is becasue you should try to use all of your heals. But I have only 3. Sometimes even BBs with 5 heals rush in, without using all of their heals, and it is still worth it. Jean Bart would not lose anything by agressive playstyle. Especially if you consider that your time of action is limited by 8 minutes you don't want to have a long live.
And did I meantion your DMP increase? I mean I said by retarded spamming it you get only 33% average. But if you time it right, your damage output will even increase more (compared to richelieu). Hell yes this crap is worth 2 heals. I still claim it is worth waaaay more.

 

 

If all pick this and snipe from long ranges let them. I mean it is not the consumable that ruins the game, it is the camping BB meta. But if they are going to, at least make them effective I guess. Also, as a cruiser and DD I don't mind a yamato shooting faster, but beeing 10km further away. My job is not to kill it, my job is to get the caps/win the game. I would not mind bad players beeing bad, the consumable itself will not support camping on it's own.

 

Sorry I even had to check your stats to see whether you have a point. Giving the ones I see I can trustworthy say, you are completely wrong. You have only 2500 games, and not much success either. And even if that is not bad itself, you are claiming quite a lot you have no understanding of.
First of all cruisers can be caught of guard. Especially if they play right, support dds, they will be close. Right now if I see a BB, I can bait the shot and I got 30 sec to turn out. Well, with this consumable I am screwed -> best thing to do is not even get close or support any dds yay. Another example, I push with a zao into a cap to support dd. Enemy dd spotted, I shot 1 salvo, can get maybe like 5-10k damage done. Next thing is (since I am really overextended), I turn out and run. I am spotted for 20 sec, which is enough for 1 shot, which I gladly trade for helping my dd. Yeah well, now you can shoot twice in 20 sec. And about fixing position, I would like to fix my position, it is just by your awful fast reload I don't have the time to fix my position. 1 mistake and I am dead. Best thing I could do in a regular scenario is to push and yolo maybe, but not with 15 sec reload time.
About kiting, it is not about showing broadside, it is about turning, or just beeing able to do so, maybe to trop once in a Zao or ibuki. Also you have to show enough broadside to shoot all your guns in many ships, or like a henry which is running. Now you can be always be punished for trying to play your game.
As a dd in high tier games. I play a DM so I know what I am taling about. You can sneak up to a good spot and pop radar. Now all your ships have maybe 15-20 sec until the DD is out of radar range. Notice that it does not have to be a cap, I will not position myself to be able to shoot him anyway. Also he might be just on the other side of the island and only 1 bb can hit him. But well, in any case, this dd will get twice the AP love from BBs. And it is not his fault.

 

And finally you did not get my point. I just literally said if you are retarded enough to throw it away by spamming it will result still in 33% DMP increase. If you use it with brain, it will have even more impact. And that is why it is stupidly retarded and should never, ever make it into the game. Like easily make 2 well timed pushes and this consumable can potentially give you twice the damage you would do in the same spot as Richelieu. All, for now, for the price of 2 heals. Balance comrade

You are right. 

I also overextend with Zao at start to help DDs, blapped enemy dd for 5k minimum then turn to safety after 20s. 

Now BBs will double their damage oitput in 20s and they will target Zao ofc.

Sometimes lose 50% health if lot of BBs manage to get me and knows how to shoot. 

 

 

If this go live i will think twice to help DD.

Better to stay away and farm damage. 

This will penalize agressive cruiser players. 

Zao can reliably hit BBs from 18km + spotter plane. 

Many will just stay at that range and farm 100k +

 

 

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Weekend Tester
5,139 posts
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But when IJN DDs have that on a much less reliable weapon as a consumable that's separate from smoke, it's OP and needs to be removed.

You will be missed smoke+TRB Shira.
 

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9 hours ago, Riselotte said:

See a target turn and show broadside? Well, how about you don't show broadside in front of a goddamn BB? And if you turn around just after a BB has fired, this consumable will still mean 12-15 seconds reload, so you shouldn't be caught full broadside. A Minotaur would be a greater threat than this.

See a DD rushing from 2 km. You get one salvo at best at that range. At such distances, you might not even have the turret traverse to prevent it.

See that cruiser pushing to brawl? Can it tank BB shells? Yes? Then it shouldn't really be an issue. A Hipper can bowtank JB just fine, one salvo or two. No? That cruiser shouldn't pull this crap anyway.

See that radar cruiser pushing in to support the DD? If the radar cruiser is exposed for that kinda crap, they are risking getting blapped anyway. One lucky salvo by a T8 BB is enough to devstrike a Baltimore/Chapayev/Cleveland/Edinburgh. Most radar cruisers sit behind corners for a reason.

 

Meanwhile, what does this effectively mean for a BB? Jean Bart will have to be very careful with its hp management, having significantly less hp to go around than any other BB at its tier. It will have to use the reload booster to not just be a straight up crap Richelieu with better AA (because CVs still haven't kicked the bucket yet, despite WGs best attempts). Get into a battle with anything that can tank your shells and you are in for a very hard time, because you are quite likely to just eat a lot of damage you won't regain as easily and if you don't play very conservative, you'll not survive till late game.

 

Also, Iwaki Alpha had smoke way before Kutuzov and Flint.

Missouri still is the only BB with radar.

Belfast was pulled from sales and WG admit they consider it a problematic ship, Black is still available and pays for it in torp armament, recent Grozovoi buff was reconsidered.

Did Torpedo Reload Booster break the game? Oh my god, how did Warships go on after I can no longer count on that IJN DD (or Monaghan) having expended all its torps and being harmless for a minute or so? TRB is likely one of the least disruptive gimmicks there is and I doubt main battery reload boost will be anything different. you'll have to be on guard, Jean Bart will punish mistakes slightly harder (though typically by the time reload boost gives you a second or third salvo, the mistake is either corrected or the target is dead).

This guy Data Demon already made many of my points :cap_like:

I know this is the internet, everything is black and white. Still lets examine the nuances of grey here if we want to consider the impact of such a consumable.

 

For example, if I am to take your statement "dont show broadside" literally, it means to never, ever make a turn in a cruiser. Or get into a crossfire.

The latter WILL happen through no fault of your own, when one flank collapses (you may argue the game is already lost), so we can already conclude that "never show broadside" is unlikely in a realistic random battle scenario.

Cruisers can be caught off-guard - some BBs (Conqeror, Montana looking at you) have better concealment than some Cruisers. How would you avoid showing broadside to a ship you cant even see?

Cruisers can also be overextended for good reasons (supporting DDs in a cap) or have to make a turn to not become overextended (being permaspotted by a flanking DD for example).

In situations where DDs rush BBs (which more often than not is actually BBs rushing a DD smoke), 15s is a not much time for the dd.

You have only 700 DD games and none of them in tier X dds or dds that are likely to get smoke-rushed by BB (gunboats).

BB turrets will be turned correctly, secondaries will be firing and if the BB mounts the aquisition mod for a 3 km spotting distance, you have to cross 2 km of fire before dropping the torps at 1 km where they cant miss.

Remember, the DD have to guarantee the kill or it will die.

 

You talk about what it means for JB to lose a few heals. Data Demon already said what I have to say about this. 

I would gladly take this consumable in my Yamato, Montana, Conq, Missouri or any other BB you care to name. The potentially decisive benefit of 33% more firepower for a short time far outweigh the cost if you use it smartly. 

 

As to ships.

1) Iwaki Alpha is both very rare and low tier. Kutuzov was pulled from sales at the same time Belfast was, and Flint only exists because of rarity.

However, before that WG managed to create an entire line of RN CLs relying on smoke, before realizing their problematic design decision.

2) WG proposed giving RN BBs radar, this was only averted because of massive community protests. Your argument is precisely why a thread like this is so important. 

3) Belfast and Grozevoi are other examples where WG went overboard with consumable generosity and it backfired or community protested before they fcked up. This again is why this thread is so important.

 

The point is, this consumable will at worst increase BB dpm 33%

But if you use that dpm increase smartly, the impact on the game can be far greater.

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