Reform of the team damage penality system needed

[Grimmblut]

This just happened and let me to the strong believe that the team damage penalty system must be reformed.

 

Battle 1)

I play as Chapayev and drive into a cap, together with 2 DDs of my team. Two enemy DDs are there as well and hide inside their smoke immediately. I have already been firing at them and now activate both sonar (to spot enemy torps) and my radar (to spot the enemy DDs in their smoke). The enemy DDs are revealed and I try to make the best of the next 20 seconds that my radar will allow me to fire on them. So they try to flee, and I'm - zoomed in - continue to fire on them. Suddenly two things happen almost simultaneously. First I hear the scratching noise of my ship colliding with another ship and I hear the audio message "Don't fire at your allies" followed by "A disciplinary penalty has been imposed" (or whatever that crap says). Turns out one of my allied DDs had, for some reasons, panicked, activated his smoke and had made a sharp turn right, setting a collision course towards my ship. The moment we collided, I had fired on the enemy DDs but scrapped his superstructure with a part of the salvo for 1697 damage. I continued the battle, which was eventually won by my team with me doing over 58k damage. See attached screenshots.

 

 

I received "teamkiller status" for the next two matches. Of course I'm somewhat annoyed but decide to play on and just struggle through the penalty.

 

Battle 2)

Again I play as Chapayev. The battle goes well although I'm underdog with my Chapayev against several T9 ships at my flank. An allied Neptune activates smoke and stops inside the line of smoke it has created. I go inside the smoke as well, just at the backmost edge. We both keep firing on an enemy BB. Suddenly I see the Neptune backing up, right into my direction. So I go into reverse as well and stop firing. Nevertheless, he manages to scrap my foreship for a ridiculous low amount of damage - and I receive an additional penalty for teamdamage. I continue to play the match, again we are victorious, but when I get out of battle, I receive the message that my penalty is extended by one more battle.

 

 

Listen, I'm all for a penalty system that punishes disruptive behaviour. As a beta player, I remember too well how it was when there was absolutely no penalty for any amount of team damage and team kills and I remember that, when you played at night with only a few players available, it may happen that you had to stop playing that night because the chance that your matches would be ruined by the same ahole again and again and again that night was close to 80%. I know that such an automatic system can never be perfect. But what Wargaming has inflicted upon it's playerbase with this cheap excuse of a badly designed penalty system is as worse as having none at all. 

 

Wargaming devs, can you PLEASE put your heads together and come up with a penalty system that actually works? My suggestion is to change the system in a way that decides at the end of a battle whether a penalty should be given or not. E.g. don't give a penalty for a one time accident (all damage within 10 seconds) if the inflicted damage is less than 5% of the players total damage in the battle.

[xxNihilanxx]

So, on the second occasion, you park in somebody else's smoke and then inhibit his ability to manoeuvre within it but it is the penalty system that is at fault? If you played British cruisers you would know just how irritating it is when people do this. Worse still is when someone is spotted and under fire so sails into a Brit cruiser's smoke to park up and the shells fired at him hit the smoke owner. Have some thought and consideration for your team mates.

[VC381]

It's not worth the dev time to implement a complex system to save you from weird situations like this. The harsh system is working exactly as intended and fine as it is. Look where you're going, where you're shooting, zoom out, stay away from possible collisions if you're already pink. It's still your fault if you don't factor the possibility of your team-mates doing something stupid. It's really not that hard to play within the rules, harsh as they are.

[T0byJug]

7 minutes ago, VC381 said:

It's not worth the dev time to implement a complex system to save you from weird situations like this. The harsh system is working exactly as intended and fine as it is. Look where you're going, where you're shooting, zoom out, stay away from possible collisions if you're already pink. It's still your fault if you don't factor the possibility of your team-mates doing something stupid. It's really not that hard to play within the rules, harsh as they are.

This.. It happens to us all.. There is an easy work around.. Keep a tier I ship in port. (I have black swan) 2 penalty matches is 10 mins in 2 coop matches.  You clean again. 7v7 and no torpedoes its easy not to do any accidental team damage as you fight bots so you can concentrate more on where you team is

[ShinGetsu]

I never get pink unless I really did *edited* somewhere. And that happened, what, 2 times ?

 

Seems quite fair to me.

[Grimmblut]

Alle 6/22/2018 alle 12:31, xxNihilanxx ha scritto:

So, on the second occasion, you park in somebody else's smoke and then inhibit his ability to manoeuvre within it but it is the penalty system that is at fault? If you played British cruisers you would know just how irritating it is when people do this. Worse still is when someone is spotted and under fire so sails into a Brit cruiser's smoke to park up and the shells fired at him hit the smoke owner. Have some thought and consideration for your team mates.

 

Saying "you're not allowed to park in my smoke" is as retarded as saying "you're not allowed to fire on ships revealed by my radar". If you honestly think that it's okay to inflict team damage on one of your teammates because he dared to flee into your smoke to hide from enemy fire, then you're a prime example of everything that's wrong with this *edited*.

[bushwacker001]

Alle 6/22/2018 alle 12:55, Grimmblut ha scritto:

 

Saying "you're not allowed to park in my smoke" is as retarded as saying "you're not allowed to fire on ships revealed by my radar". If you honestly think that it's okay to inflict team damage on one of your teammates because he dared to flee into your smoke to hide from enemy fire, then you're a prime example of everything that's wrong with this *edited*.

 

[xxNihilanxx]

Alle 6/22/2018 alle 12:55, Grimmblut ha scritto:

 

Saying "you're not allowed to park in my smoke" is as retarded as saying "you're not allowed to fire on ships revealed by my radar". If you honestly think that it's okay to inflict team damage on one of your teammates because he dared to flee into your smoke to hide from enemy fire, then you're a prime example of everything that's wrong with this *edited*.

 

If I fire on a ship lit by your radar will it inhibit your movement?

If I fire on a ship lit by your radar will shells aimed at me hit you?

 

Can you see the difference? You should be able to cos it's frelling HUGE.

 

Park in my smoke, by all means, but if you do so make sure you pay a hell of a lot of attention to not getting in my way and NEVER do it if you are already detected and under fire. I am NOT your meatshield.

 

And where did I say anything about it being ok to inflict team damage on a ship in my smoke? The only one who has confessed to doing that here is you. Something in this thread may well be "retarded" but it certainly isn't my argument.

 

This is just a typical example of learn to play.

 

[Asakka]

Working as intended as i can see

[rvfharrier]

It takes two ships to collide. You can't criticize the destroyer for his lack of attention and then go on to exempt yourself fully from blame, you were also paying so little attention that you didn't see him coming and fired when he was directly in front of your guns. Zoom out and scan for half a second after every shot, especially if you know teammates are around.

 

There's also the fact that if all it took was 1700 damage without a team kill for you to go pink then this is probably not a first offence, in which case leniency isn't called for. There are a couple of minor issues with the teamkill system, but nothing on display here looks unjust. In general it's very easy to avoid going pink if you're simply mindful of where your teammates are and hold fire if in doubt.

[Jethro_Grey]

1 hour ago, Grimmblut said:

This just happened and let me to the strong believe that the team damage penalty system must be reformed.

 

Battle 1)

I play as Chapayev and drive into a cap, together with 2 DDs of my team. Two enemy DDs are there as well and hide inside their smoke immediately. I have already been firing at them and now activate both sonar (to spot enemy torps) and my radar (to spot the enemy DDs in their smoke). The enemy DDs are revealed and I try to make the best of the next 20 seconds that my radar will allow me to fire on them. So they try to flee, and I'm - zoomed in - continue to fire on them. Suddenly two things happen almost simultaneously. First I hear the scratching noise of my ship colliding with another ship and I hear the audio message "Don't fire at your allies" followed by "A disciplinary penalty has been imposed" (or whatever that crap says). Turns out one of my allied DDs had, for some reasons, panicked, activated his smoke and had made a sharp turn right, setting a collision course towards my ship. The moment we collided, I had fired on the enemy DDs but scrapped his superstructure with a part of the salvo for 1697 damage. I continued the battle, which was eventually won by my team with me doing over 58k damage. See attached screenshots.

 

 

I received "teamkiller status" for the next two matches. Of course I'm somewhat annoyed but decide to play on and just struggle through the penalty.

 

Battle 2)

Again I play as Chapayev. The battle goes well although I'm underdog with my Chapayev against several T9 ships at my flank. An allied Neptune activates smoke and stops inside the line of smoke it has created. I go inside the smoke as well, just at the backmost edge. We both keep firing on an enemy BB. Suddenly I see the Neptune backing up, right into my direction. So I go into reverse as well and stop firing. Nevertheless, he manages to scrap my foreship for a ridiculous low amount of damage - and I receive an additional penalty for teamdamage. I continue to play the match, again we are victorious, but when I get out of battle, I receive the message that my penalty is extended by one more battle.

 

 

Listen, I'm all for a penalty system that punishes disruptive behaviour. As a beta player, I remember too well how it was when there was absolutely no penalty for any amount of team damage and team kills and I remember that, when you played at night with only a few players available, it may happen that you had to stop playing that night because the chance that your matches would be ruined by the same ahole again and again and again that night was close to 80%. I know that such an automatic system can never be perfect. But what Wargaming has inflicted upon it's playerbase with this cheap excuse of a badly designed penalty system is as worse as having none at all. 

 

Wargaming devs, can you PLEASE put your heads together and come up with a penalty system that actually works? My suggestion is to change the system in a way that decides at the end of a battle whether a penalty should be given or not. E.g. don't give a penalty for a one time accident (all damage within 10 seconds) if the inflicted damage is less than 5% of the players total damage in the battle.

Working as intended. 

If you occupy someone else‘s smoke, it‘s your responsibility to watch where you shoot. 

You didn‘t seem to take into account that your team mates might move in the smoke, which quite common. 

 

So yeah, it’s on you. 

 

But as mentioned above, keep a low tier ship around and work your pink status off in lower tiers. 

 

 

Personally, I never had issues sharing my smoke screens, however in the past few months i‘m hesitant to smoke up near allies, simply because I do not want to be shot at by people who fail to check whether i might catch shells from them or even get pushed out of my own smoke.

 

And i made a habit out of it, when I get set on fire i let it burn to maximize the team damage penalty for the perpetrator. 

 

If people can‘t be arsed to watch where they are driving or shooting, I can‘t be arsed to share smokes or extinguish fires set by a friendly. 

[Excavatus]

one question to you OP,

 

 You are collided with a Destroyer..

were you stationary at the moment? If yes.. then ok... Totally DDs fault.

But If not,

 

How come your teammate HAVE TO LOOKOUT and you DONT?

and it is all for them to blame?

 

You have to watch around you as much as the other guy on your team..

next time, as the game gave you the best advice!

 

Don't fire at your allies!

[MrWastee]

...somehow, no idea why, i only seem to get pink when... divi'ed up with @DeTrimmy .....

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Bruh, you are only pink for two/three games. I could understand your point if there was a real punishment but this is just a change to the color of your name, nothing more.

[Uglesett]

I'm pretty sure I've done similar amounts of damage to a friendly DD in the same sort of situation without turning pink... So maybe you need to be a bit more cautious in general?

[wilkatis_LV]

3 hours ago, Grimmblut said:

Spoiler

This just happened and let me to the strong believe that the team damage penalty system must be reformed.

 

Battle 1)

I play as Chapayev and drive into a cap, together with 2 DDs of my team. Two enemy DDs are there as well and hide inside their smoke immediately. I have already been firing at them and now activate both sonar (to spot enemy torps) and my radar (to spot the enemy DDs in their smoke). The enemy DDs are revealed and I try to make the best of the next 20 seconds that my radar will allow me to fire on them. So they try to flee, and I'm - zoomed in - continue to fire on them. Suddenly two things happen almost simultaneously. First I hear the scratching noise of my ship colliding with another ship and I hear the audio message "Don't fire at your allies" followed by "A disciplinary penalty has been imposed" (or whatever that crap says). Turns out one of my allied DDs had, for some reasons, panicked, activated his smoke and had made a sharp turn right, setting a collision course towards my ship. The moment we collided, I had fired on the enemy DDs but scrapped his superstructure with a part of the salvo for 1697 damage. I continued the battle, which was eventually won by my team with me doing over 58k damage. See attached screenshots.

 

 

I received "teamkiller status" for the next two matches. Of course I'm somewhat annoyed but decide to play on and just struggle through the penalty.

 

Battle 2)

Again I play as Chapayev. The battle goes well although I'm underdog with my Chapayev against several T9 ships at my flank. An allied Neptune activates smoke and stops inside the line of smoke it has created. I go inside the smoke as well, just at the backmost edge. We both keep firing on an enemy BB. Suddenly I see the Neptune backing up, right into my direction. So I go into reverse as well and stop firing. Nevertheless, he manages to scrap my foreship for a ridiculous low amount of damage - and I receive an additional penalty for teamdamage. I continue to play the match, again we are victorious, but when I get out of battle, I receive the message that my penalty is extended by one more battle.

 

 

Listen, I'm all for a penalty system that punishes disruptive behaviour. As a beta player, I remember too well how it was when there was absolutely no penalty for any amount of team damage and team kills and I remember that, when you played at night with only a few players available, it may happen that you had to stop playing that night because the chance that your matches would be ruined by the same ahole again and again and again that night was close to 80%. I know that such an automatic system can never be perfect. But what Wargaming has inflicted upon it's playerbase with this cheap excuse of a badly designed penalty system is as worse as having none at all. 

 

Wargaming devs, can you PLEASE put your heads together and come up with a penalty system that actually works? My suggestion is to change the system in a way that decides at the end of a battle whether a penalty should be given or not. E.g. don't give a penalty for a one time accident (all damage within 10 seconds) if the inflicted damage is less than 5% of the players total damage in the battle.

 

1st case - you have 8 seconds between every 2 shots, zoom the f**k out and look around. It is 100% your carelessness and your fault that you hit that ally

 

2nd case - it's well known that if you are pink you should make sure to keep your distance. Not going to deny that I "accidentally" give a love-tap to most pinks coming too close to me. Your own task to make sure you don't bump into anyone

[AmiralPotato]

1 hour ago, Uglesett said:

I'm pretty sure I've done similar amounts of damage to a friendly DD in the same sort of situation without turning pink... So maybe you need to be a bit more cautious in general?

In addition to this, once I scratched a friendly ship just after getting pink in the previous battle.

I got only the small usual xp/credits penalty, and the penalty was not extended, it was decreased by 1 game as if nothing happened.

No replay, but pretty sure of it since I was expecting worse, and quite annoyed for being careless.

There is certainly some tolerance in the penalty system.

[eliastion]

5 hours ago, Grimmblut said:

My suggestion is to change the system in a way that decides at the end of a battle whether a penalty should be given or not. E.g. don't give a penalty for a one time accident (all damage within 10 seconds) if the inflicted damage is less than 5% of the players total damage in the battle.

You didn't receive any real penalty. You got pink. You didn't blow up from reflected damage, you weren't relegated to coop. You got warned. Not punished, not really - just warned. The system works like you want it to be working (in fact, it's more forgiving) so what's your point?

The one way to quickly get pink and then orange is to actually score finishing blows on your teammates. And that - even if it's often just really bad luck - remains a pretty serious thing, seeing how a ship at 50 points (points, not %) of hp still can be tremendously useful (I've once played almost the whole game at 27hp, got 3 kills in the process and finished at the top of the scoreboard ) while a ship at 0 is just a bunch of points received by the enemy.

[rvfharrier]

10 minutes ago, eliastion said:

(I've once played almost the whole game at 27hp, got 3 kills in the process and finished at the top of the scoreboard )

 

You weren't in a Myoko at the time by any chance were you? :p I remember seeing that happen once. Enemy Myoko on Neighbors got absolutely nuked right at the start of the game to double digit health and somehow topped the scoreboard, still alive if I remember correctly!

[pzkpfwv1d]

Team kill seems to be working as intended, sometimes mistakes happen and specially with the longer range torpedoes.  If you have received a warning (pink) but are not relegated to co-op play take a fast ship and steer well away from your team mates for the requisite number of battles - such as Minsk or Leningrad 

[eliastion]

2 hours ago, rvfharrier said:

 

You weren't in a Myoko at the time by any chance were you? :p I remember seeing that happen once. Enemy Myoko on Neighbors got absolutely nuked right at the start of the game to double digit health and somehow topped the scoreboard, still alive if I remember correctly!

No, I was in an Akizuki and it was the map (I don't remember name but it wasn't Neighbors) with lots of small islands in the East, three big islands in the West and an exposed middle cap (with a tiny island inside).

Anyway, I'd have to tip my hat to a guy pulling something like this in Myoko In Akizuki I made extensive use of my concealment, smoke and shell arcs (that are pretty high near max range, making it easy to shoot over islands) - I certainly wouldn't like my chances being left with 2-digit hp pool in a t7 cruiser

[Deckeru_Maiku]

10 hours ago, Grimmblut said:

This just happened and let me to the strong believe that the team damage penalty system must be reformed.

 

How about NOPE!

[EdiJo]

11 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

So, on the second occasion, you park in somebody else's smoke and then inhibit his ability to manoeuvre within it but it is the penalty system that is at fault? If you played British cruisers you would know just how irritating it is when people do this. Worse still is when someone is spotted and under fire so sails into a Brit cruiser's smoke to park up and the shells fired at him hit the smoke owner. Have some thought and consideration for your team mates.

Sure, it is unfriendly and selfish behavior to get in with boots to someones "home", but still, it is not the problem we are talking about here. The issue is that you GET (more) PINKY BY GETTING RAMMED. Which is total nonsense. 

11 hours ago, VC381 said:

It's not worth the dev time to implement a complex system to save you from weird situations like this. The harsh system is working exactly as intended and fine as it is.

BS. You are penalized (further) although you didn't do anything wrong. 

11 hours ago, VC381 said:

Look where you're going, where you're shooting, zoom out, stay away from possible collisions if you're already pink. It's still your fault if you don't factor the possibility of your team-mates doing something stupid. It's really not that hard to play within the rules, harsh as they are.

Tell that to some idiot nooby DD which kept ramming my Nassau and laughed from fountain of pinky digits and the damage I received for his TK action. 

Why is it still possible? Why those few points of ramming damage between team members still count as "TK"?   

10 hours ago, T0byJug said:

This.. It happens to us all.. There is an easy work around.. Keep a tier I ship in port. (I have black swan) 2 penalty matches is 10 mins in 2 coop matches.  You clean again. 7v7 and no torpedoes its easy not to do any accidental team damage as you fight bots so you can concentrate more on where you team is

This is half-measure. Why at all should I have to do that if I don't intend to TK anyone ("anymore")? BTW, in the above example I took bloody T3 battleship, a slow turd which can't force anybody into collision.

9 hours ago, rvfharrier said:

It takes two ships to collide.

Nope. If you are in Nassau and DD really wants to collide with you, you can do absolutely nothing. 

9 hours ago, Excavatus said:

 You are collided with a Destroyer..

were you stationary at the moment? If yes.. then ok... Totally DDs fault.

But If not,

It doesn't matter. TK status has absolutely NOTHING TO DO WITH SAME-TEAM COLLISIONS. 

 

8 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Bruh, you are only pink for two/three games. I could understand your point if there was a real punishment but

Still, it is BS that you are penalized (your pinky status is prolonged) without doing anything wrong anymore. 

8 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

this is just a change to the color of your name, nothing more.

Not exactly.

7 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

it's well known that if you are pink you should make sure to keep your distance. Not going to deny that I "accidentally" give a love-tap to most pinks coming too close to me. Your own task to make sure you don't bump into anyone

Why exactly do you think that being pink should make sure to keep distance? And more precisely, why do you think it is all fair, OK and working as intended? 

[wilkatis_LV]

14 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

Why exactly do you think that being pink should make sure to keep distance? And more precisely, why do you think it is all fair, OK and working as intended? 

The message is simple - LOOK AROUND.

 

Was majority of team dmg cases seem to be not direct "I SHOOT YOU" but instead "omg he sailed in my torps / in front of me while I was zoomed in"

 

Put those 2 together and you get your answer. You still pay no attention to anything around you = enjoy a few more pink matches

[EdiJo]

5 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

The message is simple - LOOK AROUND.

 

Was majority of team dmg cases seem to be not direct "I SHOOT YOU" but instead "omg he sailed in my torps / in front of me while I was zoomed in"

 

Put those 2 together and you get your answer. You still pay no attention to anything around you = enjoy a few more pink matches

OK. I'm in a pink Nassau, "friendly" DD rams me for half of the game. Why should I "enjoy more pink matches"? (and also have my game ruined, because of reflected damage)